Topic: Sound Professionals vs. Church Audio

[Mr.Scully]

I'm about to buy a new mic (and a new digital recorder too!), it should be for recording loud rock/metal/punk concerts and around $100-$150 max. I'm currently hesitating between

SP-BMC-12 (Audio Technica) from Sound Professionals (about $120 incl. the croakie mount)
and
CA-11 from Church Audio (about $140 incl. the croakie mount)

I know the guy from Church Audio is here on the board while the guys from Sound Professionals probably aren't so I assume most people here will praise Church Audio but is it really better in this case? Has anybody tested mics of these two brands side-to-side? Or are both basically of the same quality?

Thanks

[Belexes]

For loud concerts, go with the Church mics.

Sound Pros do come to this site and you can get a discount there as you are member here.  Church Audio usually has specials running all the time, see the retail thread.

[rastasean]

Church probably has a better deal than $140 for that but don't quote me on that!

[Mr.Scully]

Church probably has a better deal than $140 for that but don't quote me on that!

Yep, free shipping until July 15 or something I will have to decide quickly

[Church-Audio]

Church probably has a better deal than $140 for that but don't quote me on that!

Yep, free shipping until July 15 or something I will have to decide quickly

I am extending the free shipping until the end of July.. So dont worry

[avrilfan]

I  dont know about sound professionals, but if you choose church audio, you wont be dissapointed for sure. If you want, I can send you some samples from some live shows. I recorded some lately.

[Mr.Scully]

I  dont know about sound professionals, but if you choose church audio, you wont be dissapointed for sure. If you want, I can send you some samples from some live shows. I recorded some lately.

If you have recorded some loud rock gigs, please send me some short samples to webmaster [at] queenconcerts.com

Also I see you have the CA-9100 Preamp - is it an important thing to have or would a $30 battery box do basically the same job? I suppose I must read the forum a bit more to get these answers... ;-)

[Dede2002]

I  dont know about sound professionals, but if you choose church audio, you wont be dissapointed for sure. If you want, I can send you some samples from some live shows. I recorded some lately.

If you have recorded some loud rock gigs, please send me some short samples to webmaster [at] queenconcerts.com

Also I see you have the CA-9100 Preamp - is it an important thing to have or would a $30 battery box do basically the same job? I suppose I must read the forum a bit more to get these answers... ;-)

You didn't ask me anything, sorry for answering  . I'm not an expert, but I do know this one.
We're talking about two different things here. A battery box will power your mics, so you don't have to use your recorder's plug in power. The bb will provide your  mics the needed power to handle  higher SLP ( in other words: loud rock gigs).
A preamp also powers your mics, but it's main purpose is to amplify the signal coming from your mics towards the the Line input of your recorder. In a loud rock gig you can use only a battery box. But you can do like many folks around here ( myself included): low rec level ( recorder) and use the preamp ( usually) cleaner gain.
Hope that helps 

[Mr.Scully]

Thanks for the answer. Since I record only loud rock gigs (with volume level set to 40%) and my budget is limited, I think I will rather invest my money into a good mic (the new CA-14?) and get a battery box for now. That should still be an improvement compared to my current Sony ECM-907.

[Mr.Scully]

This is what I've found: two samples of the same song (Have A Cigar) from the same gig (Roger Waters somewhere in Canada), recorded with two different mics:

http://www.mediafire.com/?bjz99zz3m39
==> SP-BMC-2 binaural microphones w/SP-EMC1 croakies > MM-CBM battery module > Sony MZ-NH600 Hi-MD @ 16-bit/44.1kHz

http://www.mediafire.com/?g9dwjym4cw1
==> Church Audio stealth cardioids > Church Audio ST9100 preamp (bass filter on) > Edirol R-09 w/4GB SDHC card @ 24-bit/48kHz

To me the SP-BMC-2 version sounds clearer (at least the vocals and overall sound). The CA version has better drums I think. Still, if I my decision had to be based on these two samples, I'd probably go for the SP mic... :-(

[nameloc01]

Those are two different types of microphones...
The cards are directional mics, and will sound quite different than the bi's.
You need to compare AT cards with CA cards (or bis for both)

I,personally would avoid bi's and use cards for large loud shows,you'll be able to "lock into" the music more and avoid the noise of all of the people around you.

[Mr.Scully]

Those are two different types of microphones...
The cards are directional mics, and will sound quite different than the bi's.
You need to compare AT cards with CA cards (or bis for both)

I,personally would avoid bi's and use cards for large loud shows,you'll be able to "lock into" the music more and avoid the noise of all of the people around you.

That sounds logical but don't you have a feeling that the AT sample from my previous posts sounds better than CA - even though the AT mics were omnidirectional?

Omni versus uni - I assume there's no 100% correct answer? Some people say the omnidirectional capture the "feel" of the concert better and provide a richer sound while others say they will only capture an unwanted noise from the audience...

[stantheman1976]

If you like the sound of the AT mics then there's absolutely no reason not to use them.  Sound Professionals is a good company and their preamps are very high quality.  With an SP mic/preamp combo you'll get good equipment.  Chris Church has a great reputation here because he's spent a lot of time trying to make affordable, high quality equipment.  His preamps are at least as good as the SP models.  I have the SP-PREAMP-3 and CA-9000 and both are good.  I just happen to have used the SP model first and have an affinity for it.  I've ordered from SP a few times and have no reason not to again.

It all boils down to what sounds best to you.  I think the majority of people just favor cardioid mics for mixed enviorments because they are more forgiving as far as the amount of extra sound they pick up than omnis.   

[Dede2002]

Thanks for the answer. Since I record only loud rock gigs (with volume level set to 40%) and my budget is limited, I think I will rather invest my money into a good mic (the new CA-14?) and get a battery box for now. That should still be an improvement compared to my current Sony ECM-907.

You bet.

[nameloc01]

I didn't listen to the samples, I just prefer cards to omnis,especially in that type of environment. You need to get whatever sounds good to your ears.

[MJ]

This is what I've found: two samples of the same song (Have A Cigar) from the same gig (Roger Waters somewhere in Canada), recorded with two different mics:

http://www.mediafire.com/?bjz99zz3m39
==> SP-BMC-2 binaural microphones w/SP-EMC1 croakies > MM-CBM battery module > Sony MZ-NH600 Hi-MD @ 16-bit/44.1kHz

http://www.mediafire.com/?g9dwjym4cw1
==> Church Audio stealth cardioids > Church Audio ST9100 preamp (bass filter on) > Edirol R-09 w/4GB SDHC card @ 24-bit/48kHz

To me the SP-BMC-2 version sounds clearer (at least the vocals and overall sound). The CA version has better drums I think. Still, if I my decision had to be based on these two samples, I'd probably go for the SP mic... :-(

When you try to compare the sound of two mics, you should make sample recordings at least by taping from the same location.  I think it is worthy of checking several more recordings before you make a final call.  I have CMC-4(Card/AT853s), CMC-8(Card+Hyper/AT943s), Church Audio Mic(Card), DPA4061(Omni), and OKM2(Omni).  I often tape the loud metal, punk rock show and usually pick up the mics depending on the acoustic of the venue and the recording location.
Koichi

[Mr.Scully]

Thanks for all the advices. Since my budget is limited, I think I'll get the only unidirectional mic for now as it seems to be more versatile for my purposes. Sound Professionals don't seem to offer the croakie mount for their cardioid mics so I'll probably get one of the CA mics (CA-11 or the new CA-14) + the croakie mount + a battery box. With the free shipping it should be below $200.

[su6oxone]

Thanks for all the advices. Since my budget is limited, I think I'll get the only unidirectional mic for now as it seems to be more versatile for my purposes. Sound Professionals don't seem to offer the croakie mount for their cardioid mics so I'll probably get one of the CA mics (CA-11 or the new CA-14) + the croakie mount + a battery box. With the free shipping it should be below $200.

You may as well get the package deal with the 9100 preamp included as well.  That baby will come in handy far into the future even after you upgrade your mics.

[Mr.Scully]

Thanks for all the advices. Since my budget is limited, I think I'll get the only unidirectional mic for now as it seems to be more versatile for my purposes. Sound Professionals don't seem to offer the croakie mount for their cardioid mics so I'll probably get one of the CA mics (CA-11 or the new CA-14) + the croakie mount + a battery box. With the free shipping it should be below $200.

You may as well get the package deal with the 9100 preamp included as well.  That baby will come in handy far into the future even after you upgrade your mics.

But then we're talking about at least $150 + $180 = $330 + $20 for the croakie mount. And I also have to buy the recorder which means another $380 incl. postage to EU. That's well over $700. Not good :-) Hard life of a taper... ;-)

[tilomagnet]

Buy used?

[nameloc01]

You are much better off buying what you know you like (want) right off of the bat, if you don't..I can gurantee you after your first recording you'll be unhappy and will be looking to upgrade immediately. Which means more money than you would have spent in the first place.

[MJ]

>But then we're talking about at least $150 + $180 = $330 + $20 for the croakie mount. And I also have to buy the >recorder which means another $380 incl. postage to EU. That's well over $700. Not good :-) Hard life of a >taper... ;-)

I bought Church Audio mics and a Church Audio pre from a TS member on Yard Sale for $150+shipping
I can not find a better pre than Chris's in this price range.
   

[deadheadcorey]

I made a great stealth recording of Stephen Stills last year with Church Audio cards and preamp 9100.

GO CHURCH AUDIO!