Topic: Real Time Comp: JW Mod AKG 461 vs. Stock AKG 461

[tgakidis]

The Amorphous Band
2009-2-25
Muddy River Smokehouse
Portsmouth, NH

This comp was done with a pair of Jim Williams Modified AKG 461's & a pair of Stock AKG 461's set to the same configuration and position.
The Microphones were set dead center 18 feet from the stage about 7 feet high.
The files were interlaced switching every 15 seconds throughout the song.

Thanks to Jason Sobel for hosting my files!

http://www.turtleside.com/misc/jwmod461-vs-stock461/jw460.vs.stock460.flac
Song: Hottentot
0:00-0:15 Source 1: JW Mod AKG c460b/ck61(DIN,18'FS) > R-4 Busman T-Mod (24/48)
0:15-0:30 Source 2: AKG c460b/ck61(DIN,18'FS) > R-4 Busman T-Mod (24/48)
switching every 15 seconds

[newplanet7]

allsome.
Can't wait to get on this later.

Ted any plans on a 460/480 comp?

[jeromejello]

thanks ted!

i will have to do a better listen later, but through the crappy computer speakers i heard a little difference b/w the two - exactly what i would have expected... a little tighter and punchier with the mod, even maybe a little more brighter.

i will listen through the cans later tonight

[willndmb]

i THINK i hear slighttttttt differences
and bot times i thought i heard a difference i like the 460 stock better

[JasonSobel]

I moved the FLAC file out of the aerco vs V3 comp folder.  The file is now located here:
http://www.turtleside.com/misc/jwmod461-vs-stock461/jw460.vs.stock460.flac

and I told Ted the new link so that he can update the first post of this comp thread, but for the time being, here it is...

[datbrad]

This is a great comp. I burned it to disc last night and listened on my home system intently. I do hear some slight differences, but nothing that makes either one in any way "better" than the other to my ears. The warmth of the transformers is the main characteristic that I like about stock 460s.

I personally don't see a benefit for me to paying $$ for JW to rip out the transformers. If I wanted transformerless, I would just buy a pair of 480 bodies and call it a day. This comp really helped my answer the question in my mind once and for all. Thanks much for doing this this comp!!!

[tgakidis]

This is a great comp. I burned it to disc last night and listened on my home system intently. I do hear some slight differences, but nothing that makes either one in any way "better" than the other to my ears. The warmth of the transformers is the main characteristic that I like about stock 460s.

I personally don't see a benefit for me to paying $$ for JW to rip out the transformers. If I wanted transformerless, I would just buy a pair of 480 bodies and call it a day. This comp really helped my answer the question in my mind once and for all. Thanks much for doing this this comp!!!

Thanks for the input Brad.  I agree with you 100% that there is only a slight difference in the over all sound.  The more and more i run comps the more I realize that the real difference is shown the further back you are away for the sound source.  When you run "FOB" you lose out on the room sound, where I believe the real difference would be more obvious.  For me, at this point with my current gear options, the JW mod is a benefit becuase I can choose to use them with the actives and get the "brighter" sound in a boomy room or go with the stock 460 if I feel the room is lacking thump.  Example, for Hampton I plan to run the JW Mods with my ck3x actives to try to counter act the "hockey arena" sound.

I plan to continue to run more comps with this same band.  They play every wednesday and the band & the venue give me full access to do what i want.  Next up will be JW 460 vs. Stock 480 and then I will start doing some other comps like ck61 vs ck1, ck63 vs ck3, ck69 vs ck8, etc.

[datbrad]

This is a great comp. I burned it to disc last night and listened on my home system intently. I do hear some slight differences, but nothing that makes either one in any way "better" than the other to my ears. The warmth of the transformers is the main characteristic that I like about stock 460s.

I personally don't see a benefit for me to paying $$ for JW to rip out the transformers. If I wanted transformerless, I would just buy a pair of 480 bodies and call it a day. This comp really helped my answer the question in my mind once and for all. Thanks much for doing this this comp!!!

Thanks for the input Brad.  I agree with you 100% that there is only a slight difference in the over all sound.  The more and more i run comps the more I realize that the real difference is shown the further back you are away for the sound source.  When you run "FOB" you lose out on the room sound, where I believe the real difference would be more obvious.  For me, at this point with my current gear options, the JW mod is a benefit becuase I can choose to use them with the actives and get the "brighter" sound in a boomy room or go with the stock 460 if I feel the room is lacking thump.  Example, for Hampton I plan to run the JW Mods with my ck3x actives to try to counter act the "hockey arena" sound.

I plan to continue to run more comps with this same band.  They play every wednesday and the band & the venue give me full access to do what i want.  Next up will be JW 460 vs. Stock 480 and then I will start doing some other comps like ck61 vs ck1, ck63 vs ck3, ck69 vs ck8, etc.

I think having both for the reasons you gave makes a lot of sense. I guess for me, with the choice of keeping my stock preamps stock versus getting them modded, I have to go with staying stock. However, your ideas are making me consider picking up a set of JW mod 460 bodies one day for the extra options it gives to adjust for rooms, as you mentioned. Thanks again.

[Shawn]

The warmth of the transformers is the main characteristic that I like about stock 460s.

[tgakidis]

The warmth of the transformers is the main characteristic that I like about stock 460s.

I guess for me, with the choice of keeping my stock preamps stock versus getting them modded, I have to go with staying stock.

I am with you on both of these points.  I just happen to come across a good situation to aquire the JW mods.  I would never mod my other pair of 460's even if I got rid of the JW's.

[Gordon]

haven't listened to this yet but I had a pair briefly in 07.  I ran one set mod 463 and one set 483 (I know this is 460's) but I'll be damn if I could hear much difference at all. 

[Chuck]

Ted, thanks for this comp. I'm interested in knowing how you got the levels matched so well. Having owned both JW mod and stock C-460's I know that the output is is quite a bit different between the two. Also, the capsule matching is very good on this comparison. I didn't hear any image shifting like on the other comparisons I've heard.

From the previous comparisons I have heard between JW mod and stock AKG C-460's I have concluded that I like the stock C-460's better. Hearing this comparison has not changed my mind. Stock C-460's sound more "musical" to me. JW mod's sound more analytical/sterile to me. The difference is subtle.

[tgakidis]

Ted, thanks for this comp. I'm interested in knowing how you got the levels matched so well. Having owned both JW mod and stock C-460's I know that the output is is quite a bit different between the two. Also, the capsule matching is very good on this comparison. I didn't hear any image shifting like on the other comparisons I've heard.

From the previous comparisons I have heard between JW mod and stock AKG C-460's I have concluded that I like the stock C-460's better. Hearing this comparison has not changed my mind. Stock C-460's sound more "musical" to me. JW mod's sound more analytical/sterile to me. The difference is subtle.

I tried to match the levels the best I could at the show, the JW & stock clearly do have different out put levels.  In post I use Sony Vegas to interlace the tracks.  Vegas allows you to independently adjust each source's volume which is how I matched them up just right.  As far as the matched capsules,  I just happen to have two sets of closely matched ck61's.

[datbrad]

Ted, thanks for this comp. I'm interested in knowing how you got the levels matched so well. Having owned both JW mod and stock C-460's I know that the output is is quite a bit different between the two. Also, the capsule matching is very good on this comparison. I didn't hear any image shifting like on the other comparisons I've heard.

From the previous comparisons I have heard between JW mod and stock AKG C-460's I have concluded that I like the stock C-460's better. Hearing this comparison has not changed my mind. Stock C-460's sound more "musical" to me. JW mod's sound more analytical/sterile to me. The difference is subtle.

I tried to match the levels the best I could at the show, the JW & stock clearly do have different out put levels.  In post I use Sony Vegas to interlace the tracks.  Vegas allows you to independently adjust each source's volume which is how I matched them up just right.  As far as the matched capsules,  I just happen to have two sets of closely matched ck61's.

What's the difference in output levels between stock & JW mod?

[tgakidis]

The JW runs hotter