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Author Topic: NT4 on quiet material?  (Read 5697 times)

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Offline jbw

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NT4 on quiet material?
« on: April 01, 2009, 12:08:42 PM »
Hey all,

I am considering getting a Rode NT4 for quiet ambient recordings. Right now I have a VP88, but I must admit on the quieter stuff, it can be noisy, but sounds great with louder material.

Could any of the users out there comment on it with quiet material (ambient field stuff if possible). I am currently looking into the possibilities of a half day rental to use it in person, but for now I would love to hear about other's experiences.

Cheers and thanks. :D
Lots of Mics
Sound Devices 722

Offline TomR

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 12:21:01 PM »
Hi JBW

I have a NT4 and use it for recording quiet, ambient nature sounds when an all in one stereo mic is called for.  Its self noise is, I believe, 16dBA.  Rob Danielson's page:-

http://www.uwm.edu/~type/audio-reports/MicSpecCharts/Mics_16dBA.htm

lists mics that have self noise of 16dBA or better which are adequate for nature recording.  You will find the NT4 on that list.

It is not as quiet as my AT3032s or NT1As - but they are individual mics and two of them are required for stereo making for a more complex? setup in certain situations.

Give the NT4 a try - it could be very suitable for your application.

cheers
TomR

Offline rastasean

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 12:32:41 PM »
Search this forum, there are many posts in regards to this mic.
Also user Digi_fish has recordings over at freesound.org
http://www.freesound.org/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29541

I'm interested in buying the same exact mic but used since $560 is pretty steep for me.

The AT3032 mic is mono and discontinuted but it does have a very low self noise according to the chart.
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline DSatz

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2009, 02:55:54 PM »
Noise specifications are generally among the least reliable specifications that you will find for microphones, and "A"-weighted noise specifications are the worst of the bunch. It's not just that the "A" weighting curve is way wrong for such low sound pressure levels (though it is); it's also the fact that "A" weighted noise measurements are nearly always rms--they're averaged across a relatively long "time window" which smooths out all impulse- or shot-like noise. Since impulse noise is much more audibly disturbing than steady, smooth hiss, as a consumer you don't want it filtered all out of the noise measurement process.

In addition, the different manufacturers measure noise so differently that if you gave any two of them the same microphone to measure, they might come out with 6 dB differences in the value they would report. This is not just conjecture on my part--a group of cooperating manufacturers (part of a standards committee of the AES) actually went through this as an exercise a few years ago, and the results were written up in an AES paper that I helped to translate and edit for publication. Most of the manufacturers agreed pretty well on such items as sensitivity, frequency response and polar response, but when it came to noise levels there was much greater divergence. This difference was never explained and should not be necessary, but it exists.

In general, if a manufacturer accurately specifies a microphone's equivalent noise as a CCIR-weighted, quasi-peak measurement, that should correlate fairly closely to what we would hear in actual use. However, such measurements tend to be 8 to 12 dB higher (i.e. seemingly worse) than "A"-weighted rms figures--so when only one specification is published, it is generally the more favorable-seeming "A"-weighted rms value.

Finally there's the whole question of just what a manufacturer means by their specifications in the first place. Do they mean "if your microphone doesn't live up to this level of performance, we'll repair or replace it at no charge"? Not very likely. The first-class manufacturers would pay attention if someone made a credible claim like that, and would fix the microphone if they agreed that it needed fixing, but they never offer specifications as any kind of legal guarantee to the public at large.

More often, specifications from responsible manufacturers mean, "These are values which we define for our microphones, which they generally live up to--but any one sample could deviate by a few dB"--while with less responsible manufacturers the specifications don't come from any actual measurements at all, and are simply chosen by the marketing department to suggest an impression of the level of performance that they would like you to believe they are offering.

--best regards
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 03:06:45 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline jbw

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2009, 04:02:23 PM »
Thanks so far for all the replies.

@rastasean - I actually saw a review somewhere, not sure exactly where, by digifish, hopefully he can chime in. I did a search before I posted, I found some interesting info, but not directly about how it handles low sources, but I will try a few more searches. You can find a new Nt4 for quite a bit less than $560 if you are in the US.

@Dsatz - Thanks for that interesting info, but I am less concerned with the manufacturer's specs and more concerned with the first hand impressions users have after using the mic in practical situations. I do look at the manufacturers specs, but I like to try out any mic, if possible, before purchasing. But thanks a ton for the heads up.

Cheers and thanks so far, I hope others with chime in with their experiences. In the meantime I am going to find out how to track some of digifish's recording on freesoundproject.
Lots of Mics
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2009, 06:38:40 PM »
Never mind the noise of that mic, the edgy/harsh sound makes it difficult to recommend - imho.  You have to seriously tilt the response in post production (roll of the top, boost the bottom) to get an acceptable sound - though admittedly that's recording classical music rather than ambient sound.

Offline JLMoore3rd

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2009, 09:46:57 PM »
JBW- I use one of these for field recording, and am quite happy with the mic sound... That being said, you should know that it is a heavy pig (1lb 3oz with battery). I often use it on a short boompole, and it gets tiring after a bit.

The included mic clip isn't suspended, so you'll have to either make or purchase a suspension rig, especially if you're using it on a boom. It is still a good idea to use a suspension rig on a stand/tripod, so that you eliminate any possible noise when recording in quiet conditions. I modified an inexpensive blimp rig with an Audio-Technica AT8415 shock mount in order to hold up the front of the mic, and it works quite well.

Another item to note: the included foam windscreen works well indoors, or if there's almost no wind, but doesn't offer much protection. I added the Rode Dead Kitten, which slips over the foam, and that helps quieten light winds. The best wind protection is using the blimp rig with the furry cover.

Here's some recordings using this mic & a Fostex FR2:
http://sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com/2009/01/new-years-eve-geese-fireworks/
http://sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com/2009/01/blackbirds/
http://sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com/2009/01/squirrel-wars/
http://sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com/2009/01/skateboard-park/

John "Alpha Flying Monkey" Moore
SoundBlog: sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com




John "Alpha Flying Monkey" Moore
www.flyingmonkeystudio.com

Offline jbw

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2009, 09:56:17 PM »
JBW- I use one of these for field recording, and am quite happy with the mic sound... That being said, you should know that it is a heavy pig (1lb 3oz with battery). I often use it on a short boompole, and it gets tiring after a bit.

The included mic clip isn't suspended, so you'll have to either make or purchase a suspension rig, especially if you're using it on a boom. It is still a good idea to use a suspension rig on a stand/tripod, so that you eliminate any possible noise when recording in quiet conditions. I modified an inexpensive blimp rig with an Audio-Technica AT8415 shock mount in order to hold up the front of the mic, and it works quite well.

Another item to note: the included foam windscreen works well indoors, or if there's almost no wind, but doesn't offer much protection. I added the Rode Dead Kitten, which slips over the foam, and that helps quieten light winds. The best wind protection is using the blimp rig with the furry cover.

Here's some recordings using this mic & a Fostex FR2:
http://sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com/2009/01/new-years-eve-geese-fireworks/
http://sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com/2009/01/blackbirds/
http://sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com/2009/01/squirrel-wars/
http://sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com/2009/01/skateboard-park/

John "Alpha Flying Monkey" Moore
SoundBlog: sound.flyingmonkeystudio.com


Thanks a ton John! Much Obliged! I took all your comments into consideration and am going to listen to your audio demos now. Thanks again! :)
Lots of Mics
Sound Devices 722

Offline digifish_music

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009, 02:15:59 AM »
Hey all,

I am considering getting a Rode NT4 for quiet ambient recordings. Right now I have a VP88, but I must admit on the quieter stuff, it can be noisy, but sounds great with louder material.

Could any of the users out there comment on it with quiet material (ambient field stuff if possible). I am currently looking into the possibilities of a half day rental to use it in person, but for now I would love to hear about other's experiences.

Cheers and thanks. :D

If you look in this thread, here...

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,118575.msg1592082.html#msg1592082

I have linked a bunch of quietude-style recordings. I am very happy with the NT4 in that role, the preamp is more likely to introduce unwanted noise when you are doing quietude recording than the NT4 mic. What mic preamp are you using?

digifish


« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 02:22:03 AM by digifish_music »
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Offline digifish_music

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 02:19:19 AM »
Hi JBW

I have a NT4 and use it for recording quiet, ambient nature sounds when an all in one stereo mic is called for.  Its self noise is, I believe, 16dBA.  Rob Danielson's page:-

...

It is not as quiet as my AT3032s or NT1As - but they are individual mics and two of them are required for stereo making for a more complex? setup in certain situations.

Give the NT4 a try - it could be very suitable for your application.

cheers
TomR

I have all the same gear and agree. I have in particular found that the convenience of and NT4 in a blimp when you are out-n-about can't be overstated. The results are entirely dependent on what you are recording, your mic preamps and to a lesser extent the NT4.

digifish
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Offline digifish_music

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 02:32:27 AM »
Search this forum, there are many posts in regards to this mic.
Also user Digi_fish has recordings over at freesound.org
http://www.freesound.org/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=29541

I'm interested in buying the same exact mic but used since $560 is pretty steep for me.

The AT3032 mic is mono and discontinued but it does have a very low self noise according to the chart.

Re the AT3032, the AT4022's seem to be the same mic, painted black, some minor changes to the electronics (more cut
on the high-pass filter switch) and +$300 :(

Details here...

http://www.freesound.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=16501

BTW: I am here at www.freesound.org -

http://www.freesound.org/usersViewSingle.php?id=29541

digifish
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 02:38:41 AM by digifish_music »
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Offline jbw

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 07:52:49 PM »
Thanks for the replies Digifish,

I have the SD Mixpre as a preamp, I think the same as you. I am in the process of listening to your recording as well.

Thanks again all for the replies and I apologise for posting in the wrong section.
Lots of Mics
Sound Devices 722

Offline digifish_music

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Re: NT4 on quiet material?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 07:54:42 PM »
Thanks for the replies Digifish,

I have the SD Mixpre as a preamp, I think the same as you. I am in the process of listening to your recording as well.

Thanks again all for the replies and I apologise for posting in the wrong section.

Yes, I am generally using NT4 -> MixPre -> R09HR

digifish
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