Topic: replacement/upgrade advice for a set of AT 853RX for stealth recording

[schoff]

Not sure if I`m going to do this but....... originally I was running AT 853 Rx`s mounted on sunglasses > Church Audio Preamp CA 9100 > Edirol R-09.

Am now beginning to run AT853 Rx`s >Church Audio Preamp 9200 > Sony M10.

After some problems with the 853s I am thinking upgrade the mics. What would people recommend as a replacement / upgrade on the AT 853 RX Cardioid mics for stealth recording?

In an ideal, money is no problem world; it would be a set of schoeps but back to reality:

They will be going into a Church Audio 9200 Preamp
They will be mounted on glasses.
Mostly I will be recording rock and blues EG Neil Young, New Order, Nine Inch Nails.


Cheers in advance

[darktrain]

As far as Cardioids go really your next jump is a big one, AKG CK61 or CK63 with nbob actives and a Tinybox would maybe be the most cost effective upgrade, you could get into that for around a grand, there is no Microphone that you could mount to your glasses that will really give you a upgrade over the 853, those are solid little mics. Also with your next move the size of the mic will be larger so you will have to rethink your mounting system. From AKG's there is also Milab, Neumann, and Schoeps of course.

[schoff]

Hi Darktrain,

Thanks for the prompt reply I was suspicious an upgrade would be expensive however I have been experiencing problems with my 853s and when I rang Audio Technica (Europe) they told me the 853 is no longer supported which means they had no spares and so could not do a full service. I can take the risk to see if they replace the cable from the mic to the LXR that it would fix the problem but there are no guarantees it would work.

Does anybody know what the 853 was superseded with?

[acidjack]

Hi Darktrain,

Thanks for the prompt reply I was suspicious an upgrade would be expensive however I have been experiencing problems with my 853s and when I rang Audio Technica (Europe) they told me the 853 is no longer supported which means they had no spares and so could not do a full service. I can take the risk to see if they replace the cable from the mic to the LXR that it would fix the problem but there are no guarantees it would work.

Does anybody know what the 853 was superseded with?

Sound Professionals here in the U.S. seems to still be selling them: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U
They're small, so shipping to EUR might not cost a fortune.

I'm with darktrain as to upgrades - it's not worth moving from the ATs unless you move up to a larger-diaphragm mic like the AKG ck61s.

[lukpac]

Does anybody know what the 853 was superseded with?

The AT853 was replaced with the U853:

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/1e904e3760bfdde3/index.html

[schoff]

Alright acidjack

Just had a look at the soundprofessionals: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U and am a bit confused.

Am I assume the body is an AT853Rx or is the SP-CMC-4U a totally different Audio Technica product?

Frade a grand upgrade is out of the question so have gone for the replacement of the cable between the mic and mini LXR.

Here`s hoping it sorts out the problem

Any more suggestions?

Thanks for that Luckpac.

It gives me the opportunity of buying like for like. (more or less)

[lukpac]

The SP-CMC-4 was the AT853. The SP-CMC-4U is the U853.

What are the "problems"?

[fmaderjr]

The 853's are great mics but will distort at loud shows if you don't have them modded with the 4.7 k resistor mod. This makes them 10-11 dB less sensitive, but allows them to record very loud shows without distortion.

You don't say if you have this mod, but if you don't and distortion is your issue, that is your upgrade. Darktrain can do it for you at a very fair price (assuming he ships to Europe).  Send him a PM if you don't have the mod.

[lukpac]

The 853's are great mics but will distort at loud shows if you don't have them modded with the 4.7 k resistor mod. This makes them 10-11 dB less sensitive, but allows them to record very loud shows without distortion.

You don't say if you have this mod, but if you don't and distortion is your issue, that is your upgrade. Darktrain can do it for you at a very fair price (assuming he ships to Europe).  Send him a PM if you don't have the mod.

Or just run them as designed, with phantom adapters, which also results in correct polarity.

[fmaderjr]

Or just run them as designed, with phantom adapters, which also results in correct polarity.

I run mine that way some times but I don't know if that'd be the best recommendation for schoff since his recorder doesn't provide phantom power. Plus the mod makes for a less bulky set up if you are stealthing.

[schoff]

The SP-CMC-4 was the AT853. The SP-CMC-4U is the U853.

What are the "problems"?

Hi Lukpac

I posted in the Ask the tapers forum an on going set of problems I was experiencing. Eventually I got one mic rewired only to find the other one needed rewiring as well: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=169034.0

Hence this thread to decide if a second set of Mics would allow for less wear and tear on my equipment.

Thanks for the info.

Schoff

[lukpac]

I posted in the Ask the tapers forum an on going set of problems I was experiencing. Eventually I got one mic rewired only to find the other one needed rewiring as well: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=169034.0

Re:

"Finally had chance to take your advice and because of a lack of appropriate cables tried each mic alternatively into the amp and found I have an intermediate fault on the left channel microphone."

Where is the fault? Near the body? Somewhere in the cable? Or near the plug? Body could be a problem, but the others would just require putting on a new plug, which isn't a big deal.

[adrianf74]

I've run everything from Core Sound Binaurals in the mid '90s, to AT933 cardioids (in the early 2000's), to CA-14's, CA-11's, B3's, 4061's, AT853's (with subcards and omnis) to CK61 and CK63's and now Schoeps MK41's.  Many people have said it makes sense to just make "one move" but I've learned a lot in trying the different mics over the years to fully appreciate the MK41's.   I'm with those who said look at the AKG CK63 or CK61 as your next move.  I'd go with the hypers even though they are more prone to head movement/phasing; frankly, I like the sound of those caps better than the CK61's and found them easier to work with in post (EQ'ing), etc.  As mentioned, you'll need a TinyBox, Nbob Active Cables and capsules (~$500 for the pair).  The improvement in your recordings will be SIGNFICANT.  I've run the Naiant AKG Actives but prefer the build and weight of the Nbob ones.  You're looking at north of $1k for the setup but it's a decent one.

If you want to break the bank, you can look at Schoeps actives but you'll be looking at close to TWICE the cost of the AKG setup with one set of caps.   I found I was running the CK63's most of the time so I ended up dumping the whole lot and went with the Schoeps MK41's (and haven't looked back).

The 853's are decent but it all depends on what you want to spend.

[Gutbucket]

One unusual (around here) and relatively recent option you might check out is the DPA 4098H supercarioid sold as a hanging choir microphone.  It is very small in diameter and mountable in your current eyeglass configuration. The mids and highs are very clean with a nice clear up-front DPA sound.  It's primary issue for our application is it's low end roll-off which is significant in comparision to AT853 cardioid.  If you record bass heavy music and usually low-cut anyway that may not be an issue but I can't confirm that.  The couple times I've tested them on their own I was able to EQ the (not heavy) bass to where I was happy with it without a problem. 

Another user here uses a slightly different version of the same microphones mounted on glasses, in combination with DPA minature omnis for the low-end, recording 4 channels and mixes them together afterwards.  I eventually bought a used pair last summer for use in a multichannel array along with miniature DPA omnis.  In that application they are not mixed together but the rolled off low-end response works to my advantage.  I chose them as a clear upgrade over the AT853 and AT933 mics I had borrowed and used previously in the same setup, testing a few typical small directional microphones in that application.   

They have small interference tube grids on them like a micro-sized shotguns and incorporate a short articulated section in back which I've found quite useful. You'd need a microdot adapt cable to use them with the 9200. Their female microdot termination at the end of the articulated section, not at the end of a long cable like the DPA miniature omnis.

It's a bit of a strange critter, but is very small and sounds quite nice.  If European DPA pricing is more advantageous than US pricing, or if you can find a used pair at a good price and can acommodate the mentioned quirks, it could be a contender.  New here in the US is it packaged along with a bunch of stuff like a phantom adapter, clips and other things you wouldn't need and sells new for about $500 a piece.

[2manyrocks]

What about long term durability of the DPA mics compared to the other options?  I remember reading a post on TS to the effect that if the cable inside the head of a DPA 406_ series goes bad, it's not fixable.  comments?