Author Topic: for VSA owners (Read 9422 times)

Nick's Picks · « **on:** July 23, 2005, 07:07:32 AM »

if you own VR4s, or jr's or any Von Schweikert speaker that has a bass module/mid range tweeter cab design...you NEED to be running 2 pairs of speaker cables.
I think Frank does this w/his VR4s all ready.

I spoke w/my dealer on a conference call with Kevin at VSA who stressed the importance of doing this to really "make them sing".
well..I finaly was able to do this w/a 2nd pair of my custom Gregg Stralley cables, and i am totaly blown away. Its like I got new speakers..a very dramatic change, as if the bass modules "woke up". Its the way the crossover is designed...they (bass cabs) want their own direct connection to the amp. bi-wiring sucks ass comparred to quad wiring these speakers.

10x the bass energy and drive. I get serious SPL even at low volume. Its almost like I squeezed more juice out of the Sony...which at 150wpc was barely enough to drive these speakers the way I wanted them driven. No problems any more in that dept.

I find it hard to fathom that my custom jumpers were really "missing out" on that much signal current or overall "potential", but the evidence is as plain as a boner in sweat-pants.

scb · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2005, 10:42:26 AM »

i've been bi-amping my vr2s and i'll never go back

JasonSobel · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2005, 12:04:52 PM »

Nick, does this mean that another listening day is in order, with the my 901 and whatever else we can scrounge together to listen to through your system? hmmmmm.....

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2005, 01:31:28 PM »

I have mine bi-wired with two pair of cables. Still waiting for a matching amp to do the bi-amp config. The bi-wire did make an immediate difference.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #4 on:** July 24, 2005, 12:47:34 PM »

another listening day...probably in Sept, for sure.
I want to replace all the bass drivers and mid ranges in my speakers. what the hell. its very inexpensive to do it, like $50 per driver. Now that the bass modules have new life, i can hear some shit I dont like. Old cones in a rock-box....what can you do?

scb · « **Reply #5 on:** July 24, 2005, 04:12:13 PM »

we need some sort of listening day closer to NYC:)

JasonSobel · « **Reply #6 on:** July 24, 2005, 06:09:03 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 24, 2005, 12:47:34 PM

another listening day...probably in Sept, for sure.

Quote from: scott brown on July 24, 2005, 04:12:13 PM

we need some sort of listening day closer to NYC:)

September sounds good to me

I'd be happy to host (in Boston), except for the fact that my system is crap except for headphones, which doesn't lend itself very well for more than one person. someday I'll move out of apartments...

carlbeck · « **Reply #7 on:** July 25, 2005, 06:07:23 AM »

We can host at my new house, I have a new room that is just dying to be broken in

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #8 on:** July 25, 2005, 07:32:32 AM »

yup!!
cudo's for Carls house.

scb · « **Reply #9 on:** July 25, 2005, 08:02:06 AM »

where?

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #10 on:** July 25, 2005, 08:20:22 AM »

semi-southern NH.
not far off of i95

JasonSobel · « **Reply #11 on:** July 25, 2005, 09:09:50 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 25, 2005, 08:20:22 AM

semi-southern NH.
not far off of i95

Quote from: scott brown on July 25, 2005, 08:02:06 AM

where?

Scott -
If you make the trip up to Boston, you're welcome to catch a ride with me the rest of the way

we really should start another thread for this and get planning under way..

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #12 on:** July 25, 2005, 09:45:11 AM »

sounds good.
we need to get Carls listening room under way. Sheetrock...insulation...sound dampening where needed.
its just rough framing right now. A room above the garage. nice though..vaulted ceilings and a nice big size.

carlbeck · « **Reply #13 on:** July 25, 2005, 11:15:22 PM »

I tell you what, I may even buy some new gear just for this event, how's that for a sacrafice?!?!?

Whoever wants to come up is more than welcome to spend the weekend if it is easier on travel. I am not afraid to make some of my world class pulled pork & rage in the hot tub all night!

Tim · « **Reply #14 on:** July 25, 2005, 11:48:50 PM »

damn, a hot tub and pulled pork... that sounds like a good damn time

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #15 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:22:01 AM »

fuck ya.
sounds like last Saturday night.

Carls pulled pork sandwhich..

a layer of homemade BBQ, topped w/the pork..then smothered in a spicey vineger. add a heaping pile of KFC cole-slaw on top and viola! you'll be up shitting your pants all night. awesome.

carlbeck · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:59:07 AM »

Nick, are you ABSOLUTELY sure it was the pulled pork that made you shit your pants all night?

Just checking, I was fine

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #17 on:** July 26, 2005, 08:25:26 AM »

who knows...
all I know is that it was the best fucking pork sangie i've had in memory.
AND...even if I shit 5x as much, i'd still eat it. it was that good.

BJ · « **Reply #18 on:** July 26, 2005, 08:56:25 AM »

Quote from: Tim on July 25, 2005, 11:48:50 PM

damn, a hot tub and pulled pork... that sounds like a good damn time

ha...sounds kinda homoerotic without the full thread context...

have fun guys...Wish I could make it up there....

wboswell · « **Reply #19 on:** July 26, 2005, 09:22:10 AM »

Yeah. Sounds great. Bunch of drunk, BBQ filled dudes in a hot tub talking about gear. I can only imagine the line of girls waiting to get in to that party.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2005, 09:40:15 AM »

LOL !!!!

Craig T · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2005, 11:27:51 AM »

yep. I've been bi-wiring my VR4's from day 1.

Mic D · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2005, 12:03:07 PM »

Quote from: wboswell on July 26, 2005, 09:22:10 AM

I can only imagine the line of girls waiting to get in to that party.

My thoughts, exactly!

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2005, 12:59:54 PM »

not bi-wiring...but two pairs of speaker cable. seperates for each module.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:30:03 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 26, 2005, 12:59:54 PM

not bi-wiring...but two pairs of speaker cable. seperates for each module.

Isn't that a form of biwiring called shotgunning?

Craig T · « **Reply #25 on:** July 26, 2005, 01:46:37 PM »

biwire/shotgun... what you're saying is what I'm doing. I'm running two separate pairs of speaker cable (pair to each module), not a single "internal" bi-wire pair. I'm running Speltz Anti-Cables right now. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue18/anticables.htm

Quote from: Lil' Kim Jong-Il on July 26, 2005, 01:30:03 PM

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 26, 2005, 12:59:54 PM
not bi-wiring...but two pairs of speaker cable. seperates for each module.

Isn't that a form of biwiring called shotgunning?

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #26 on:** July 26, 2005, 03:41:33 PM »

aaahhhh...

i dont really know if there is an official term for quad cables.
"bi-wirring" refferes to the cable having 4 outputs on one end...afaik.
that is how they are sold. i've never seen them listed as bi-wire = two pairs.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #27 on:** July 26, 2005, 04:34:24 PM »

I've read different things so maybe there is some confusion on my part. My understanding is that if you have one cable with two conductors within a sheath, that is a single "wire". If you have a pair of independent conductors (one signal and one return), that is called a "shotgun" run. If you have two paths from the amp to the speakers (one for the upper and one for the lower) that is bi-wire. So a regular bi-wire is two cables and a shotgunned bi-wire is four independent cables.

Those Speltz cables are a shotgun pair. Biwiring using two sets of those is shotgun bi-wire. That is supposed to be the ultimate.

In my case, I had been using MIT MH750 for the Thiels and Tara Lab TSII to my sub. According to my understanding above, the former is a single run and the latter are shotgun single run. Since I took the sub out of the system, what I have now is a cluster fuck bi-wire: non shotgun to the monitors and shotgun to the bass cabinets.

I tried both ways - using the data-links and biwired, and I heard an improvement with the bi-wire arrangement over the single wire arrangement. I also tried swapping the Taras and the MITs between the two cabinets and I do not recall hearing any significant difference.

Lately I've been really happy with the CVH Pulsar and the Z-Squared ICs. Chris is supposed to announce a new speaker cable in the next month or so. I want to try those or the Z-Squared (but I'm sort of afraid to call Z-Squared for a quote).

bkirby · « **Reply #28 on:** July 26, 2005, 04:58:42 PM »

I thought bi-wire was like taking a Canare 4S11 and have one connector for the red wires, and one for the white on one end, and having four separate connectors for each individual wire on the other end. This is how I have my theater system hooked up. What is better and how did I screw this up?

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #29 on:** July 26, 2005, 05:18:54 PM »

If there are four conductors in the sheath, one pair for the uppers and one pair for the lowers at the speaker and the four conductors attached to the amp at the other end, that is bi-wire but not shotgun. There are lots of commercial bi-wire that are made just like that.

The shotgun is supposed to be better because the conductors are seperated by a non-trivial amount of air preventing the signals on each wire from interacting. When all the wires are bound very close together within a single sheath, the EM fields interact.

Ive seen some cables that use a single pair of conductors from the amp and then split the conductors into two pair of tails. That is not technically a bi-wire according to my understanding but I've heard wires like that called bi-wire. I can't imagine that you get any improvement from a split tail.

Edit: Another thing that makes this confusing for me is that there are companies like MIT that label their products "shotgun" yet you get a single big-ass garden hose cable with all the wire bound inside a single sheath.

pjdavep · « **Reply #30 on:** July 26, 2005, 05:25:43 PM »

Quote from: bkirby on July 26, 2005, 04:58:42 PM

I thought bi-wire was like taking a Canare 4S11 and have one connector for the red wires, and one for the white on one end, and having four separate connectors for each individual wire on the other end. This is how I have my theater system hooked up. What is better and how did I screw this up?

You got it right Brad. But biwiring comes in two flavors...internally bi-wired (like Kimber's BiFocal XL) and two separate runs of cable.

Nick was specifically referring to the two cabinet system that Von Schweikert employs -
http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr4jr_rear_close_LG.html
http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr4jr_datalink_LG.html

Notice that the upper cabinet can be connected using speaker cable, or using Von Schweikert's data cable if you only have one run of speaker cable to the lower module. What he's saying is that using the data cable compromises the sound.

Later,
pjdavep

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #31 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:01:34 PM »

even bi-wiring w/a single cable that terminates in 4 strands compromises the sound...but is still better than the data link.
which...bugs me.
If you are a high end company going trough the trouble to make such a nice fat data link EXACTLY for this purpose...you'd think it would be the superior method by design.

carlbeck · « **Reply #32 on:** July 26, 2005, 10:28:15 PM »

Ok, so by a show of hands, who is in for my hot tub & pulled pork, besides Boswell & Kevin???

Mic D · « **Reply #33 on:** July 27, 2005, 04:04:06 PM »

Quote from: carlbeck on July 26, 2005, 10:28:15 PM

Ok, so by a show of hands, who is in for my hot tub & pulled pork, besides Boswell & Kevin???

I see how it is, Carl......... I don't like pulled pork anyway.

carlbeck · « **Reply #34 on:** July 27, 2005, 05:59:32 PM »

No way, you guys don't even have to wait on line, you have VIP status!

Tim · « **Reply #35 on:** July 27, 2005, 06:03:05 PM »

I miss having escott and juday out here, if for nothing more than having 2 nice stereo's close

ramsden, simp, chirs evans, darrin and I need to get together for a Rocky Mountain Hi-Fi shootout

sounds like a good time Carl, wish I lived closer.

Get in touch when the time gets closer and I'll ship my Bel Canto DAC 2.0 out for the weekend, I'd love to hear what you guys think of it and how it stacks up to the other nice DACS there.

Mic D · « **Reply #36 on:** July 27, 2005, 06:14:38 PM »

Quote from: carlbeck on July 27, 2005, 05:59:32 PM

No way, you guys don't even have to wait on line, you have VIP status!

Now that's what I like to hear!

cdevs · « **Reply #37 on:** August 05, 2005, 03:10:53 PM »

what out fellas -- we all know how this episode turned out:

hope you don't mind a little anonymous teasing