Topic: easiest way to tune a room/system?

[jerryfreak]

ok, im at home listening to my new monitor/sub setup, and i'm wondering what the typical way to tune a room for flat frequency reponse. Is it some combination of a noise generator/test disc and a sound meter?

[Church-Audio]

ok, im at home listening to my new monitor/sub setup, and i'm wondering what the typical way to tune a room for flat frequency reponse. Is it some combination of a noise generator/test disc and a sound meter?

The best way is to get your self a cheap analyzer mic like a ecm 8000 and a program like Winaudiomls and a sound card that you already have and do some adjustments. I have a pair of studio monitors that I have eq'd with a 8 band parametric eq so that they are flat FROM input to output... Nobody wants total flat because it sucks ass... But you want to get into the ball park This can really get expensive but I can show you a before and after of my monitors when I get around to it and its a huge difference. A db meter for setting levels of your sub will not work in most cases because your meter is most likely weighted and that will throw off all of your low frequency measurements. there is another trick you can do... but its pretty involved. I get a solid tone at your crossover point between your sub and your regular speakers lets say you cross them over at 150hz... Then you put a 150hz tone thru your sub and your top speakers. Then you use your ears with your sub phased reversed adjust the crossover point until you have the highest level on your db meter. Once that is done you can then go on to adjusting your level do this by putting both back in phase.. When they are both in phase you should have about 3 db difference between your full range speakers and your sub this means you have set up your levels so that they are some what matched.. But in all honesty its pretty hard to pull off with a cheap db meter you would be better off spending $200 on some software and a cheap mic... If all else fails use your ears remember you want your sub to pick up where your tower speakers left off.. That way your not reproducing the same frequency bands twice.. So if your speakers are rated at say 30hz to 20k try running your sub at 36hz that way you will take up some of the slope that will be in the low end from your towers and creating a flatter frequency response in the low end. Then adjust your level on the sub to taste.

Chris

[jerryfreak]

well the sub has a built-in crossover, with these monitors, crossing over lower at 60-80 is more 'controlled' to my ears. if i cross over at a higher frequency like 150, it sounds 'looser'. i dont think  have any holes in the sound, i just want to adjust the sub level to be representatively flat and balanced with the monitors.

[Church-Audio]

well the sub has a built-in crossover, with these monitors, crossing over lower at 60-80 is more 'controlled' to my ears. if i cross over at a higher frequency like 150, it sounds 'looser'. i dont think  have any holes in the sound, i just want to adjust the sub level to be representatively flat and balanced with the monitors.

I would then take a look at where your monitors leave off and adjust the sub xover point to that area most monitors drop off around 65hz or so If you have the monitors I think you have they are closer to 45hz so setting your xover point to 50hz would be ok you want about 5hz or so overlap but that depends on the slope of the drop off on your low end on your monitors.. Then you slowly adjust the level on the sub so it fills in the bottom end but you need a good source to know exactly where that should be. Steely Dan to the rescue.. lol... Two against nature is the track I use.

[Nick's Picks]

Ideally...

lets say the monitors are rated to go down to 45hz.  In reality, the "usable" bass will be more like 60hz.  I'd set the crossover at around 100hz on the sub. 
but..they're your ears.

as far as setting up the monitors, generating a disc of white noise is a great way to "dial them in".  play it in a loop...and adjust the speakers so the white noise sounds as though its a ball floating in mid-air between the speakers.  the tighter you can get this ball (by toeing in the speakers, spacing them out...moving them closer, moving your listening position closer/farther...combination of all of the above), the better the speakers will image and present their abilities.

Its not easy to match a sub w/ monitors and have it real seamless.  Unless you drop some big money on a really nice sub.  But..it can be done w/less expensive ones too. 

bravo for new tunes !

[Nick's Picks]

Steely Dan to the rescue.. lol... Aja is the album I use.

fixed that for ya.
;-)

[Church-Audio]

Ideally...

lets say the monitors are rated to go down to 45hz.  In reality, the "usable" bass will be more like 60hz.  I'd set the crossover at around 100hz on the sub. 
but..they're your ears.

as far as setting up the monitors, generating a disc of white noise is a great way to "dial them in".  play it in a loop...and adjust the speakers so the white noise sounds as though its a ball floating in mid-air between the speakers.  the tighter you can get this ball (by toeing in the speakers, spacing them out...moving them closer, moving your listening position closer/farther...combination of all of the above), the better the speakers will image and present their abilities.

Its not easy to match a sub w/ monitors and have it real seamless.  Unless you drop some big money on a really nice sub.  But..it can be done w/less expensive ones too. 

bravo for new tunes !

I think the bottom line is you always have to use your ears or be really good with test gear.. But even with test gear I always use my ears at the end..

You have to remember you do not want to overlap to much between your sub and your full range speakers. You end up with problems in your low end if you do. Because you have two speakers reproducing the same signal you end up with an exaggerated bass. And if the goal is flat you want to be close to the low end roll of on your main speakers.. I know you will get more thump buy bringing up the xover point but in the end your increasing your chance for mud. IMO... The other major issue is unless your xover on your speakers is a digital display.. the silk screened xover frequencies could be way off so 100hz on your speakers Nick might actually be 50hz.. Because most of these crossovers are basically passive circuits.. You dont really end up with a nice active crossover until you spend $1k or more on a sub. I have a Axiom 12" sub its active but the silkscreen is not right.. So I dont really pay attention to the numbers say.

[Nick's Picks]

I dont use a sub.  my logans go down plenty.

[jerryfreak]

ha, ha, if youve heard my comp tapes you know that 'gaucho' 24/96 edition is my album of choice. my wife knows its test time when she hears 'hey 19' coming from my room.

after comparing bm5a and bm6a, i decided i couldnt justify the extra $$ for the bm6 for a tiny bit of bass extension, and decided the extra $$ would be better spent on a bm9s sub to compliment the bm5a's. I like the results. its not the most powerful sub in the world, but it def adds a full, neutral, pleasing sound to the bm5a's. also crossing over the bm5as lets you squeak higher volumes out of them without clipping. i am still astounded with how good these speakers are, esp the fact that their active. I've been rocking my rio karma on shuffle, and its amazing how good it sounds, and most of that is 192K oggs. small powered monitors (krk/event/maudio sells many for under $500/pr.) are a great alternative to a cheesy 'dock' you would drop $200+ on for your ipod, imo.

right now I'm listening to flacs using my lucid A/D, i was happy with its sound for half the price of a benchmark. i like my music 'detailed', and while the king of detail is the benchmark, i was happy with the lucid for half the price, and it added a discernable amount of warmth to my otherwise clinical recording and playback setup (almost all of the gear is selected for neutrality (schoeps, v2, ad2k, dynaudio, etc...). someday when i have money to burn i'll probably pick up that sweet benchmark usb dac)

the next leap up is the bm15A's, which are more 'mid-field' monitors really, and may or may not need a sub. the difference is 120 db vs 112-114. with a big sub, that would literally rival concert pa volume. good stuff.

well the sub has a built-in crossover, with these monitors, crossing over lower at 60-80 is more 'controlled' to my ears. if i cross over at a higher frequency like 150, it sounds 'looser'. i dont think  have any holes in the sound, i just want to adjust the sub level to be representatively flat and balanced with the monitors.

I would then take a look at where your monitors leave off and adjust the sub xover point to that area most monitors drop off around 65hz or so If you have the monitors I think you have they are closer to 45hz so setting your xover point to 50hz would be ok you want about 5hz or so overlap but that depends on the slope of the drop off on your low end on your monitors.. Then you slowly adjust the level on the sub so it fills in the bottom end but you need a good source to know exactly where that should be. Steely Dan to the rescue.. lol... Two against nature is the track I use.

[Javier Cinakowski]

My sub does not have a terrific crossover but my reciever has a decent one (Integra 5.4). 

Even if my purpose was to listen to two channel only, I still like having a sub output on my reciever.  I would still use the Intergra for 2 channel.  I would use the integra crossover for my subs and use the zone 2 to bi-amp my stereo speakers...

Ideally though, using a killer set of full-range speakers is the way to go.  You will get better imaging and wont have to worry about calibrating your sub.  Also by having the bass come from two locations on the full range speakers you will get a flatter bass responce becasue the bass coming from two locations will smooth out the room modes...

Subs just have more power and are more fun to listen too.  Especially for movies and games....

I am saving up for 2 Tannoy PS12 subs to match my speakers.  Right now I am just using 1 modified Sony 12" powered sub...