Topic: How'd Paul Lango' Record Phish?

[stevetoney]

OK, I still love listening to Phish ().  Last night listening to some Live Phish I've bought from their site, I was wondering if anybody knows the rig/setup/techniques that Paul used to record all of the Live Phish stuff.  IMHO, he always got the matrix pretty much spot on perfect!

[baustin]

I think Paul ran multiple recordings. I'm pretty sure he always ran multi-track, 2 channel DAT (possibly ADAT) and a computer workstation. He also ran a pair of onstage AKG 414's as well as a stereo pair of AKG 414's from the soundboard area up until 2000 (give or take a few years).

He wasn't very talkative (at least to random me), but I managed to get a bit out of him at one point. He said that he had gotten the 2 track recordings down pat, so he felt he didn't need to use the multi-tracks for Live Phish (nor did he need the 414's from the soundboard). If I'm not mistaken, he also said he used the computer workstation for the LP series because it was much quicker then doing a transfer, etc.

[cleantone]

I think I recall an mbox being used for the two tracks when they were new. I didn't see much post hiatus Phish. Just a few shows I think.

[baustin]

Also, I've spoken with Steve Young (moe.'s sound engineer) a few times about his setup...

He, too, runs straight 2 channel from the board (DAT or ADAT) for their Warts and All series. As far as the AKG 414's that are split onstage, he said that they're primarily so the band can hear the crowd between songs (moe. runs in ear monitors). Steve said that the AKG 414's run through a compressor or limiter, so as soon as the band kicks in the 414's go WAY down in the mix. You only hear the 414's between songs when the band is not playing or if somebody yells loudly/whistles during a song.

[T.J.]

cool info bri! thanks

[stevetoney]

I think Paul ran multiple recordings. I'm pretty sure he always ran multi-track, 2 channel DAT (possibly ADAT) and a computer workstation. He also ran a pair of onstage AKG 414's as well as a stereo pair of AKG 414's from the soundboard area up until 2000 (give or take a few years).

He wasn't very talkative (at least to random me), but I managed to get a bit out of him at one point. He said that he had gotten the 2 track recordings down pat, so he felt he didn't need to use the multi-tracks for Live Phish (nor did he need the 414's from the soundboard). If I'm not mistaken, he also said he used the computer workstation for the LP series because it was much quicker then doing a transfer, etc.

OK, I'm kinda ignorant to this, so if I can break that info down a little bit more to get a better understanding....

You're saying that Paul was recording several different ways for each show 1) multi-track tape recorder 2) two track stereo tape recorder and 3) computer workstation. 

So, taking this one step further, I'm wondering about the specifics.  For example, the multi-track recorder would probably be recording each on-stage mic and instrument directly onto it's own track.  So, maybe Trey's vocals would be one track, guitar amp a second track, Pages vocals a third, keys a 4th, mikes bass amp the 5th, mikes vocals the 6th...and so on.

For the two tracks...would those then be just the on-stage stereo 414s setup kinda like we would setup our mics to up-close record a band? 

Maybe the computer workstation was recording as downstream backup for both of the above setups in case tape ran out or boogered up?

Finally, I guess for the Live Phish series then, we're either getting multi-track masters (probably mixed together with the two track for crowd ambience) or two track masters?

Just kinda throwing some specifics out there on how I am imagining the setup based on the feedback.  Would appreciate any corrections in my assumptions.

[bluegrass_brad]

Steve said that the AKG 414's run through a compressor or limiter, so as soon as the band kicks in the 414's go WAY down in the mix. You only hear the 414's between songs when the band is not playing or if somebody yells loudly/whistles during a song.

It's called "ducking".  That technique is used alot to bring levels of some things down so that something else is placed out front. One example would be live sporting event broadcasts where you hear the crowd, and then when the play by play announcer speaks the crowd level goes down. In the case of moe.  the board feed is sent to the side chain input of the compressor being used on the 414's.  When the board feed signal goes up (band starts playing) it reduces the output of the 414's, then increase's it if the signal to the sidechain goes down (band gets quiet or stops).

[baustin]

OK, I'm kinda ignorant to this, so if I can break that info down a little bit more to get a better understanding....

You're saying that Paul was recording several different ways for each show 1) multi-track tape recorder 2) two track stereo tape recorder and 3) computer workstation. 

i'm almost 100% on all of this. i am most certainly open to being corrected though.

So, taking this one step further, I'm wondering about the specifics.  For example, the multi-track recorder would probably be recording each on-stage mic and instrument directly onto it's own track.  So, maybe Trey's vocals would be one track, guitar amp a second track, Pages vocals a third, keys a 4th, mikes bass amp the 5th, mikes vocals the 6th...and so on.

i'm pretty sure. and if i'm not mistaken, paul also ran a board (the one that sat to his left) specifically for fishman's drums. my guess is that he mixed the drums, then sent them via 2 channel to the main mixing console. again, please anybody jump in and add or correct me.

For the two tracks...would those then be just the on-stage stereo 414s setup kinda like we would setup our mics to up-close record a band? 

split very far apart onstage. basically on the far left and right of the stage. i'm guessing he used the "ducking" method as described above for the onstage 414's.

Maybe the computer workstation was recording as downstream backup for both of the above setups in case tape ran out or boogered up?

Finally, I guess for the Live Phish series then, we're either getting multi-track masters (probably mixed together with the two track for crowd ambience) or two track masters?

Just kinda throwing some specifics out there on how I am imagining the setup based on the feedback.  Would appreciate any corrections in my assumptions.

i believe that all of the post hiatus shows that were released immediately are 2 track masters, recorded either straight to DAT or the computer workstation. i believe that every show was also multi-tracked but more than likely just archived. the multi-track mastering process i'm sure was a time consuming process. they have released some multi-tracked shows. off the top of my head i'm not sure which ones. most definitely "a live one" and "live in brooklyn". if i'm not mistaken they re-released some shows that had originally been released from the 2 track masters.

[bluegrass_brad]

I ran onstage modded Oktava 319 LD mics when I was multi-tracking for Yonder.  one on either side of the stage, pointing out towards the audience and pointed out so that if they would have had laser beam coming out of them, it would have crossed right about FOH.  This was to get crowd on the multi-track.  I would jump the signal from one of those mics into our monitor board so the guys would have crowd in their in-ear monitors if they so desired. I should have kept those mics.  After I modded them they sounded really good.

[baustin]

The show notes from the first night of Brooklyn:

http://www.livephish.com/show.asp?show=335
"the audio tracks of this show were recorded live from 2-track by Paul Languedoc. The "Live in Brooklyn". DVD, CD and livephish.com video clips are re-mixed and mastered from digital multi-track tape for maximum fidelity."

[anhisr]

I believe the CD releases of the Live Download series are only remastered from the 2 track tapes and not mixed with the multi track tapes.. 

[baustin]

I believe the CD releases of the Live Download series are only remastered from the 2 track tapes and not mixed with the multi track tapes.. 

yeah, i was just looking on their website and i don't think i really made that clear.

[Tim]

So, taking this one step further, I'm wondering about the specifics.  For example, the multi-track recorder would probably be recording each on-stage mic and instrument directly onto it's own track.  So, maybe Trey's vocals would be one track, guitar amp a second track, Pages vocals a third, keys a 4th, mikes bass amp the 5th, mikes vocals the 6th...and so on.

Yes, all of the instrument and vocal mics as well as the mics for ambient crowd nosie on stage and at the board go to a separate track on the recorder to be mixed later

For the two tracks...would those then be just the on-stage stereo 414s setup kinda like we would setup our mics to up-close record a band? 

No. The 2 track mix is just the Left and Right that come out of the board and into the amps and speakers. AFAIK he wasn't making a separate mix for the 2 channel recording, just recording his own mix of the show.

Finally, I guess for the Live Phish series then, we're either getting multi-track masters (probably mixed together with the two track for crowd ambience) or two track masters?

No and this is my one bitch about so much of the phish archive releases. They are just the 2 tracks. The LivePhish series is only 2 tracks. A Live One, Brooklyn and a few others are multitrack (I think NYE 95 is) but most are just the 2 tracks from the show.

[stevetoney]

No and this is my one bitch about so much of the phish archive releases. They are just the 2 tracks. The LivePhish series is only 2 tracks. A Live One, Brooklyn and a few others are multitrack (I think NYE 95 is) but most are just the 2 tracks from the show.

OK, all that makes sense.  Thanks.

I can understand what you're saying about the multi-track, but I have to say that the Live Phish downloads that I've bought I think sound really good, so I guess for my own tastes, I don't see $12.95 to be unreasonable for what I'm buying...which is to my ears a very nice sounding SBD mix.  I have to believe that if any of the two track mixes were lacking something (like a good balance or whatever), they'd 'fix' them through multi-tracking.  For that manner, I'd imagine that when making selections of what to put out, they skip over the two-tracks that don't have good sound and only put forward the good sounding two-track shows.  So, from that perspsective, maybe the two-tracks that they're producing sound almost as good as if they were to put together a multi-track mix.  Just some thoughts. 

[baustin]

and how can we forget this picture of mike grace with phish's grace 801 setup?