Topic: How'd Paul Lango' Record Phish?

[Tim]

My ears greatly prefer the multi-tracks

The prices are fine for the 2 tracks but I'd gladly pay more for multi-track releases

that's just me though, I understand why they don't do a lot of multi-tracks. It's a lot more labor intensive and the 2 tracks sell just fine.

[cleantone]

I understand why they don't do a lot of multi-tracks. It's a lot more labor intensive and the 2 tracks sell just fine.

One of the Live Phish releases that I produced (not Phish, The Duo with Mike) was multitracked but they basically said if it couldn't be mixed in a day they would sell the 2 track DAT. When the band was gigging the 2 tracks were faster and cheaper. Now they are just cheaper and easier to sell than the multitracks. Well still faster but there is no rush to get them online if you dig.

[morst]

Seems to me that Paul used Panasonic SV3700 DAT decks to record the 2-track SBD feeds, then added the Tascam Hi-8-based DA-88 multitrack recorders around 1993. (I first remember seeing them in KC in August 1993)

When I started seeing Grateful Dead shows, Dan Healy used a pair of Panasonic SV3700's, as well as a high-quality professional 10-well cassette duplicator (I can't remember the brand, but it was a widely used system, though the GD's rig was the only time I ever saw it used in the field.) Starting around 1992 or 1993, they used the Alesis VHS-based ADAT multitrack recorders. Thinking back, I don't know if I ever saw the multitracks in the Dead's system before spring 1993 (Chapel Hill was the first time I recall noticing them)

[run_run_run]

I wish phish released more multitrack boards, it seems lazy not to.

[Matt Quinn]

I wish phish released more multitrack boards, it seems lazy not to.

It might be economically prudent to hold on to a good chunk of them for later in life.

[run_run_run]

I wish phish released more multitrack boards, it seems lazy not to.

God bless capitalism



It might be economically prudent to hold on to a good chunk of them for later in life.

[Swampy]

Really doesn't make sense for them to release the multitrack versions. They donate all the money for the live Phish series right? Studio and engineer time to mix a three hour live show is pretty outrageous. IMO, I'd rather listen to the two tracks, engineers that mix live Phish in the studio don't get it right to me... They tend to mix it like a normal rock band, lots of kick, keys pretty low, ect... I don't think that works for Phish

[stevetoney]

Good points Swamp.  yes, I think the stuff from Live Phish goes to their charity.  I remember when they quit, a couple of the guys said that their biggest regret was that they felt bad that their foundation would suffer financially as a result.  I guess this is a way to keep that alive.

Regarding your comment about engineers and mixing, I see what you mean.  I'm not so into that either.  I kinda consider it to be an outside opinion about what the music should sound like.  For the most part, I don't think the artist is present when the mixing is done, so the fancy panning and all that tend to be just interpretations of what the music should sound like by the engineers.  OTOH, you've got guys like Hendrix that control everything and have a clear vision in their mind as to what each track should sound like. 

Hendrix's albums were studio masterpieces as well as musical masterpieces.  They should be required linstening through headphones only.

[stevetoney]

By the way, I find no fault in a band keeping their options open for the sake of future commercial considerations. 

First, none of us on this list works for nothing right?  So, how can we criticize an artist that wishes to capitalize from a job well done? 

Second, I honestly doubt that anybody here would not do the same thing.  If someone has the potential for profits later because of your work, don't you also want a piece of that action?

Once again, Phish should be commended for being a great band that worked hard to make great music.  The fact that they still can sell this music some years after their band stopped is testament to that fact. 

Good for them (and us) that they did it so well...they deserve whatever comes their way by way of future profits.  Besides all else, it's not like the fans don't have access to an aud copy of almost every show they ever performed...at least after a certain point in time.

[rokpunk]

Steve said that the AKG 414's run through a compressor or limiter, so as soon as the band kicks in the 414's go WAY down in the mix. You only hear the 414's between songs when the band is not playing or if somebody yells loudly/whistles during a song.

It's called "ducking".  That technique is used alot to bring levels of some things down so that something else is placed out front. One example would be live sporting event broadcasts where you hear the crowd, and then when the play by play announcer speaks the crowd level goes down. In the case of moe.  the board feed is sent to the side chain input of the compressor being used on the 414's.  When the board feed signal goes up (band starts playing) it reduces the output of the 414's, then increase's it if the signal to the sidechain goes down (band gets quiet or stops).

this is done all the time for in-ear rigs. the problem with in-ears is that you loose the ambient noise of the venue since you have molds shoved in your ears. an experienced engineer will point a pair of mics (shotguns are often used, but 57's, 414's, or just about any mic can be used for this) at the crowd, and between songs, will bring the ambient mics up in the bands ears so they dont feel so isolated from the crowd.

[Gutbucket]

Steve said that the AKG 414's run through a compressor or limiter, so as soon as the band kicks in the 414's go WAY down in the mix. You only hear the 414's between songs when the band is not playing or if somebody yells loudly/whistles during a song.

It's called "ducking".  That technique is used alot to bring levels of some things down so that something else is placed out front. One example would be live sporting event broadcasts where you hear the crowd, and then when the play by play announcer speaks the crowd level goes down. In the case of moe.  the board feed is sent to the side chain input of the compressor being used on the 414's.  When the board feed signal goes up (band starts playing) it reduces the output of the 414's, then increase's it if the signal to the sidechain goes down (band gets quiet or stops).

this is done all the time for in-ear rigs. the problem with in-ears is that you loose the ambient noise of the venue since you have molds shoved in your ears. an experienced engineer will point a pair of mics (shotguns are often used, but 57's, 414's, or just about any mic can be used for this) at the crowd, and between songs, will bring the ambient mics up in the bands ears so they dont feel so isolated from the crowd.

^^^
If I recall correctly, that was the original application of the Healy method mic technique, for onstage communication as well as audience connection.

[willndmb]

imo, to me, this thread is one of the best at ts
great info and fun to read for me
+t

[Tim]

I try and contribute something useful to the board every 4 to 6 weeks

[bluegrass_brad]

this is done all the time for in-ear rigs. the problem with in-ears is that you loose the ambient noise of the venue since you have molds shoved in your ears. an experienced engineer will point a pair of mics (shotguns are often used, but 57's, 414's, or just about any mic can be used for this) at the crowd, and between songs, will bring the ambient mics up in the bands ears so they dont feel so isolated from the crowd.

I used an onstage mic in the ears with Yonder, but we didnt duck it. they preferred having it in their ears all the time with no ducking, just at a low level, so they could hear the crowd reaction and energy. And it gave a nice natural reverb.

[grider]

Steve said that the AKG 414's run through a compressor or limiter, so as soon as the band kicks in the 414's go WAY down in the mix. You only hear the 414's between songs when the band is not playing or if somebody yells loudly/whistles during a song.

It's called "ducking".  That technique is used alot to bring levels of some things down so that something else is placed out front. One example would be live sporting event broadcasts where you hear the crowd, and then when the play by play announcer speaks the crowd level goes down. In the case of moe.  the board feed is sent to the side chain input of the compressor being used on the 414's.  When the board feed signal goes up (band starts playing) it reduces the output of the 414's, then increase's it if the signal to the sidechain goes down (band gets quiet or stops).

this effect is very obviously noticeable on 90's era Dead soundboard recordings, once the music stops the audience source feed jumps way up in an unnatural way, and often fluctuates in source and level too, then drops back down when the next tune begins, I don't understand why it was done and it is annoying to say the least