Topic: Best Mic for iPod- Rock Concert Stealth Recording?

[Pingmon]

Hi, I am a Newbie here, please bear with me!   
 I have been taping rock shows since 1980, using mostly cheapo analog cassette recorders, but since I tape alot of jamband, rock & metal shows, I was reluctant to invest alot of $$$ in an expensive DAT to take into the pit. Last year I finally went "digital" and bought a 5th gen iPod, and a Belkin Tunetalk Stereo. It actually records lossles now to .wav format, but unfortunately my batteries die after about 2 hours. Also, since the Belkin mic is plugged into the USB port, I cannot attach an extra battery pack, and the Belkin mic is pretty weak, so the instructions advise to attach an external mic for "loud sources". I tried attaching my old cheapo Aiwa mic, and I have successfully recorded 2 shows so far last year (Gomez, and Chris Cornell in Seattle) with very good results (compared to my analog cassette recorder).

However, I posted my Chris Cornell show a few months ago on DIME, and got harassed by some tapers because the mic I had did not have the power to pull out the vocals from the rest of the band. What I need is an inexpensive (<$200) starter mic for stealth taping rock concerts with a mini headphone jack to plug into my new Belkin/ iPod setup...

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=165486

I have been reading everything I can find, and there are so many different types of mics (omni/ uni directional, cardiod, phantom power?) Any helpful suggestions are greatly appreciated...

Thanks!

[Pingmon]

I am not a bootlegger, I do not sell my recordings, I only trade them. I am a collector. Bootleggers are people who make money of other peoples work, and yes they are scum. If I posted anything wrong I apologize, I was just looking for some technical advice. I can go elsewhere I guess if this place is not Newbie freindly...

I am not a pro, this is a hobby to me, I have done since High school. I am glad to finally upgrade from my old cassette recorder, I just needed a lillte advice on mics.

And yeah, DIME sucks, but I have not found any better places yet... I only posted the link for any members who wanted a sample of a show from an iPod, not the thread.

BTW- I did not use the word bootlegging here at all... WTF? 

[SmokinJoe]

This place is very friendly.  Just that the use of the word bootlegger is like nails on a chalkboard to a lot of people.

Check the "yard sale" section... there a lots of small mics which sound like they meet that requirement. 
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,98091.0.html
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,99576.0.html

[Krispy D]

Talk to Chris Church of Church Audio. there is a very newbie friendly thread of his in the team boards.  He makes a ton of product that would work for you. 

[Sloan Simpson]

Another part of the problem, is sharing at that scum pond on the internet. If the mods don't blindside you, and take you out at the knees,... then the leeches will bitch and complain until you cease.

Hmm, haven't run into this while I've seeded two recordings a week there for the last 2+ years.

[Sloan Simpson]

Another part of the problem, is sharing at that scum pond on the internet. If the mods don't blindside you, and take you out at the knees,... then the leeches will bitch and complain until you cease.

Hmm, haven't run into this while I've seeded two recordings a week there for the last 2+ years.

I ran into it until I became sick of it. And many others from here were blindsided by them as well, and had their accounts frozen, deleted, or, as myself, put on permanent power user rating for questioning thier dick-flopping authority.

Some of us also believe that stealth is stealth and that stealth does not end at the Exit sign above the exit door.

Not sure what that last bit is about, but just wanted to represent those of us who successfully use it without problems.

[Sloan Simpson]

we who have been crapped on over there, thank you for taking the time to set us all straight on that.

Sorry I dared to offer an opposing opinion  Carry on, I'm sure he'll be much happier with the sound of his tapes if he doesn't seed there.

[aegert]

I don't know if you all know Saul Mineroff... If you don't you should.. Saul is the preeminent supplier of surveillance gear to the Military and spooks

He makes video and audio recording gear that wouydl blow your head off...


He builds custom asssemblys and pre's for completely undetectable usage.. He can build you a hat that you could never find the mics or cameras in... and wire it so you can connect any device to it...

He has been doing this for ages adn is the old time master ... Check them out.. Call Saul himself and he'll build you a hat out of your own hat you send...

http://www.mineroff.com/government/

You will not believe the sound or stealth

Tell him Adam sent you...

A

[bluntforcetrauma]

With all due respect if you have been taping since 1980 and have only upgraded to a Belkin/ipod set up, I believe you should follow Moke's advice and research threads. The sound that you set up produces or should i say reproduces is far less than spectacular.  I downloaded that Chris Cornell concert, and I know i commented on the lack of gain, fullness and dynamic range of the recording. Whereas,you gave it a " great" recording. When one grades their own recording I would expect responses across the board good and/or not so good. The balance between taping since 1980 and upgrading to a belkin or mics under $200.00 just seems a little like you are upgrading for 1985 era.  It doesnt seem like you are keeping up with the times if indeed you have been taping for all those years.  I say this with the upmost respect as I am NOT commenting on your person, just trying to shed some light that there are great things out there for 2008 that will greatly improve your recordings.

[exileded]

Hi Pingmon,
I cant remember if the Belkin setup you are using on your ipod allows you to see if the recording is clipping or not, if it doesn't I would look at using part of that $200 budget on a pre amp with a clip indicator light so you can adjust the gain in loud show's. I've been using the italk from Griffen and have had major clipping issues at loud shows. It does have a low gain option so if you get the location right you can get fair results with just the internal mic's on the Griffen, but it sucks when your at a loud show and you know it's just not going to come out clean.

I've been researching the budget options for a while now and am about to go down the Church Audio path, purely on the comments I've found repeatedly on this site. I would recommend checking out some of his package options in the Retail space, they would be a good place to start. Also check the Yard sale section if you want to save some coin.

Lastly, research all you can on what your buying before you take the plunge. I made the mistake of buying inferior mic's for my ipod setup because I wanted to cut corners, now im forking out for a better set of mics, a pre amp and a more advanced recorder. So in the end, taking the cheap option first for me has just become money wasted  

[sunjan]

I cant remember if the Belkin setup you are using on your ipod allows you to see if the recording is clipping or not, if it doesn't I would look at using part of that $200 budget on a pre amp with a clip indicator light so you can adjust the gain in loud show's. I've been using the italk from Griffen and have had major clipping issues at loud shows. It does have a low gain option so if you get the location right you can get fair results with just the internal mic's on the Griffen, but it sucks when your at a loud show and you know it's just not going to come out clean.

AFAIK, there are only three "tack-on" ADs for iPod on the market with analog-in jack, and all three of them have severe limitations. Here's a recent test:
http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/digitalmedia/2007/05/18/ipod-mic-shootout.html?page=3

The outcome?
"After all is said and done, just how good is the iPod as a recording device? Not very, I'm afraid. Apple dropped the ball by not implementing real-world recording features. Inadequate (or nonexistent) gain-staging; no way to monitor while recording;[...] terrible battery life... Can you say "afterthought?"
Until someone comes up with a true high-fidelity recording solution, I'll save my iPod for listening to music."

Even with good mics, the Belkin/Griffin gear will prevent you from achieving decent results!
If you're dead set about sticking to the iPod as a recorder, the only half-decent AD I can think of is the iKey Plus:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,99650.msg1328101.html#msg1328101

Beware that the iKey gear has not been tested in the taper community, so the results could be marginally better than with the Belkin/Griffin AD.

Even so, for the $120 it goes for, you can get a JB3 these days, and spend the rest of the money on a Church combo. That'll be my advice. Keep the ipod for listening only...

/J

[Church-Audio]

Sunjan I would honestly agree with your comments about the ipod. I really think recording was an "after thought" and although it may be cool to use an ipod for a recorder it just does not have the essential features that would allow you to optimize my gear or anyone else's gear and get good repeatable results. I would say please ditch the ipod and get an iriver or r-09 or anything but the ipod.

Chris

[powermonkey]

Couple of points.

1) My advice - and bear in mind that I'm not anywhere near as experienced, or as technically knowledgable as most of the folks round here - is to find an alternative to the iPod. It's not designed to be a recorder, and you can almost certainly find a MD recorder (or some other gear) that will give you results that will - comparatively - blow you away.

2) Look up Chris Church's gear - mics and preamps (and battery boxes) that have served many tapers very well, and will no doubt continue to do so for a long time.

3) (Addressed to others in the thread)... Chill! I've been trying for a long time to persuade people that my recordings are not bootlegs. I know that it annoys people, but all we can do is to keep correcting people. No need to be rude about it (even if that wasn't the intention, that's how all the 'I stopped bothering to read what you said after you used the 'b' word' stuff came across). All the pro/anti Dime arguments, also. Most people seem to come into downloading live shows via Dime, and we've all had good experiences and bad ones there. Don't like it, don't use it. Do like it? Use it. Problem solved.

4) This place really IS very newbie-friendly. I've learned everything I know about taping here, and I've always had lots of help, even with really dumb-ass questions. Don't let the occasional bit of argument put you off.

Ahem. That is all.

[sunjan]

I thought I'd just add this to the same thread. Two new competitors to the Belkin/Griffin gear.

Logitec [sic!] LIC-iREC01:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.logitec.co.jp%2Fproducts%2Frecadpt%2Flicirec01.html&langpair=ja|en&hl=en&ie=UTF8

TUNEWEAR Stereo Sound Recorder for iPod:
http://store.tunewear.com/details.tpl?mcats=54,12,6,11,7&cats=55&catsuid=55&sku=TUN-IP-2000149999&page=1&starting=[starting]&category=Electronics&set=1&starting=[starting]&formdata1=[formdata1]

With all the limitations of the iPod mentioned, neither of them will make much difference from a taper's point of view. But I thought I'd just post them here for the record...

/J

[sunjan]

Saw this just out:
http://www.bluemic.com/products/mikey

Probably useless for our purposes, but I have stubborn newbie friends who insist that they want to use their beloved ipod for taping. Maybe it's a tad better than the previous lot.