Topic: AT933 distortion

[SkttrWave]

So, last week I used my AT933's (see complete rig in sig) for the first and 2nd time. Both times resulted in a recording with (not horrible) distortion.
Someone told me that the low impedance of the iRiver could play a part in this. So, I made a test cable with 2 47k resistors in it, put it between battery box and the iriver and ran a test with mics in front of a speaker. Without the test cable i got the distortion. With test cable the distortion was a bit less to my idea, there was more bass and the recording overall was less clear. (samples can be provided)

So, my conclusion is that a higher impedance will not solve my problem. Now I'm thinking of putting mini xlr's on the mics and built/buy a 3-wire battery box. Will this prevent distortion on future recordings?

If so, i'm willing to give soldering the new connectors a try. I'm not very experienced with soldering, so would someone please put up the pics in http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=18846.0 for me?

thanks in advance

[corsair]

Just use a 3 wire box..and watch ur mics fly....

[SkttrWave]

will do that

now if someone reposts the pics in the at853/at933 unmod thread (see link above), i'll have something to guide me in the process of soldering new connectors to my mics

[Arni99]

i have the sp-cmc-8 cardioids and never experienced distortion using a battery box(2-wire) with bass-roll-off at 69Hz. recorded level 42 with really a kick-ass bass-drum.
no problems at all using my iriver´s line-in with AGC-safety-clip rockboxed.

3 days ago i got the mm-hslc-2 sennheisers and i just LOVE their sound and bass-response!!! the bassdrum sounds really fat with these mics ! did a test recording at my local pub where an amateur band played.

arni

[SkttrWave]

maybe you have the newer version with the at943 caps and it's possible that they can handle the high spl's better than my at933's. Tho, I think i've read somewhere that the at943s more easily distort at high spl's, which makes me doubt about the cause of the distortion.

One of the gigs I got distortion at was at a club capacity of ~700, and the other was at a large hall capacity ~10k. I was fob both times, and obviously I was much closer to the sound source at the club show. I hoped that at the larger hall and being further away from the stacks would prevent distortion, but it didn't

Anyway, i'm about to order parts to mod my mics and build a 3wire battery box which still costs quite a bit.. so it'd better help

[thierryhenry]

I just noticed this lately with my At933's @ Sonar In B-More.

I think I am just gonna get DPA's.

[j.mart]

maybe you have the newer version with the at943 caps and it's possible that they can handle the high spl's better than my at933's. Tho, I think i've read somewhere that the at943s more easily distort at high spl's, which makes me doubt about the cause of the distortion.

fyi, 943's and 933's are the same AT caps. They just have different cable bodies. They should sound just the same

As a 9V 943's user, i think they are the best on the market on their price range along with the 853's. I've tried the omni's a few times and i find them less boomy and *very* clean. I once got spooked while testing them with my headphones on because i thought someone was talking right behind me. Anyway, nothing that a little EQ'ing can't solve when it comes to non-distorted bassy recordings. Maybe the problem is in your recorder levels. I guess it also depends on what kind of music you're taping. I don't think i've ever taped a louder show than MMJ and the tape came out clear of distortion.

-joao

[Humbug]

fyi, 943's and 933's are the same AT caps. They just have different cable bodies. They should sound just the same

They sound similar, but are different construction:

AT853: large body + AT853 caps (large)
AT933: small ES943 body + adaptor + AT853 caps
AT943: small ES943 body + AT943 caps (small)

(I think!)

I have overloaded early SP-CMC8s (just to be confusing, AT933s) at a Velvet Revolver gig, which lead to my going down the 3-wire battery box route. They are now the perfect stealth mics most of the time..

Cheers

Humbug

[Javier Cinakowski]

This is incorrect:

AT853: large body + AT853 caps (large)
AT933: small ES943 body + adaptor + AT853 caps
AT943: small ES943 body + AT943 caps (small)

The AT933 is a small body with a small cap.  So is the AT943.  The 943 is just a newer model. 

The AT853, AT933, AT943 and the New AT U853 are all microphones.  The 943 and 933 can both use 853 capsules with the AT adapter. 

:my head hurts:

[Humbug]

This is incorrect:

AT853: large body + AT853 caps (large)
AT933: small ES943 body + adaptor + AT853 caps
AT943: small ES943 body + AT943 caps (small)

The AT933 is a small body with a small cap.  So is the AT943.  The 943 is just a newer model. 

The AT853, AT933, AT943 and the New AT U853 are all microphones.  The 943 and 933 can both use 853 capsules with the AT adapter. 

:my head hurts:

I beg to differ. The old AT933 spec sheet is here (click on .pdf), and clearly shows a small body, with adaptor and AT853 capsules.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/1178d7ba389a0f64/index.html

The original set of SP-CMC8s I bought were identical to these. They were originally bought in 1998.

[Javier Cinakowski]

you might be right, but I do know the 943 is a different body then the 933.  It has a groove for a clip, the 933 does not.
[EDIT: looks like you are right.  The were no capsules for the 933 series.  Just the 853.  hmm.  Thanks!]

Possible Audio Technica Engineered Sound microphones that are common in the taping community

AT943c
AT943h
AT943o
AT943m

AT933c
AT933h
AT933o

AT853c
AT853o
AT853h

AT943/853c
AT943/853o
AT943/853h


AT933/853c
AT933/853o
AT933/853h

[Humbug]

My current AT933 mics are "bastards":

SP-CMC8 bodies (ES943, yes, with clip groove)

Adaptor and AT853 caps, from an AT933 set, the rest of which is probably owned by someone else on here, who probably thinks it's an AT943, but is wondering why it hasn't got a clip groove..

Confused? 

[Javier Cinakowski]

That is what I have.  The SP's 8's (ES943) bodies with a set of 853cards with adapter.

So these are more similar to AT933 than I thought.

Hmm.

So our mics are really:

AT ES943/853c's

[j.mart]

There is a slight spec difference between the 943/933 and the 853, o i must say they are different kind of caps. Unlike the 933/943 pair, the 853 are a different type of capsule. The 943/933 are caps have VERY similar performance to the 853 series, only smaller.

For practical purposes, the 943/933 are lavalier type microphones, while the 853 is a gooseneck or hanging mic. The whole discussion is pretty pointless when it comes to performance, as they sound nearly identical.

[SkttrWave]

hehe, this is getting pretty confusing..
these were (and still are) my thoughts about the cmc-8s

old versions of the cmc-8's, aka at933's: small body + adapter + at853c caps
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-CMC-21-A.jpg
new version of the cmc-8s, aka at943's: small body + small at943c caps
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-CMC-21-A.jpg

 

[j.mart]

hehe, this is getting pretty confusing..
these were (and still are) my thoughts about the cmc-8s

old versions of the cmc-8's, aka at933's: small body + adapter + at853c caps
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-CMC-21-A.jpg
new version of the cmc-8s, aka at943's: small body + small at943c caps
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-CMC-21-A.jpg

 

I have to disagree. Here are pictures from each model from the AT site:

853: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/product_images/c61598d80f344d03/orig/at853a.jpg
933: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/product_images/b2dfae1d1a225f9d/orig/es933c.jpg
943: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/product_images/37d9bd4b4d234441/orig/es943c.jpg

let's forget the SP (sound pro's 4,8) products, and focus on AT itself. The 933/943 difference is very hard to tell, and they are identical in specs, which leads me to think that they are the same capsules, only with different bodies. The adapter has nothing to do with the model. Altough, the 853/943 difference is quite obvious. Hope this clears everything up

[j.mart]

ftr, the 933 is a discontinued model. so, to sum up, the 943 is a replacement model of the 933

[SkttrWave]

you're probably right.. but still, my mics aren't in the pictures you linked to

i know i have sp-cmc-8's, i know my mics use the at853c caps attached to a smaller body than regular at853's through an adapter. here's a pic (that should actually be the first link in my previous post):
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/AT-ADAPT.jpg

i thought they were the at933's, but that's just what i read in other topics..

[Javier Cinakowski]

 

this is crazy

[j.mart]

you're probably right.. but still, my mics aren't in the pictures you linked to

i know i have sp-cmc-8's, i know my mics use the at853c caps attached to a smaller body than regular at853's through an adapter. here's a pic (that should actually be the first link in my previous post):
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/AT-ADAPT.jpg

i thought they were the at933's, but that's just what i read in other topics..

My guess is that the SP used to furnish people that model insted of 933/943. only recently they started to display the name of the AT cap on their product, but you should contact them to be sure. I don't know why, but i'm pretty sure on what is what when it comes to AT caps.

[Humbug]

I think we're getting there in unravelling the mystery of the small bodied mics!

If you examine the two spec sheets for the ES933 and ES943 bodies:

Hanging, ES933:
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/e98bf15be626bc85/index.html

Lavalier, ES943:
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/4ea31b4441f095b9/index.html

The specs are identical EXCEPT that the ES943 has a groove for the clip.

I believe that Stutter is right, Sound Professionals used to supply (as model SP-CMC8):

ES933 body + adapter + AT853 caps

This is what I bought originally as a 1998 model (they are now lost), and I believe is what SkttrWave has.
 
To use them as lavalier mics (ie with clips), they had a clear plastic ring and these clips (I still have a couple, thay are useless to me without the ring):



When the AT943 caps came out, SP used these instead, at the same time changing to the new ES943 body, with clip groove.

They kept the same part number, SP-CMC8 to confuse us..hehe

Humbug

ps SkttrWave, how are you getting on with sourcing a 3-wire bb?

[poorlyconditioned]

hehe, this is getting pretty confusing..
these were (and still are) my thoughts about the cmc-8s

old versions of the cmc-8's, aka at933's: small body + adapter + at853c caps
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-CMC-21-A.jpg
new version of the cmc-8s, aka at943's: small body + small at943c caps
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-CMC-21-A.jpg

 

There are many variants of these mics.  I should know, I've got (too) many of them!!!

All bodies (including AT831 BTW) are similar.  The two caps are either big (AT853) or smaller (AT943, ES933).  The bigger caps sound (a bit) better.  All of them need the 3-wire mod to sound decent.  Even under somewhat loud environments (ie., any rock show) you should see an improvement with proper powering.  Use either Phantom adapters or 3-wire and they will sound great.

  Richard

[Javier Cinakowski]

All of them need the 3-wire mod to sound decent.  Even under somewhat loud environments (ie., any rock show) you should see an improvement with proper powering.  Use either Phantom adapters or 3-wire and they will sound great.

  Richard

I have been using the 4.7k mod with the 2-wire for some time now and have had terrific results.  I have taped in very loud rock situations with no distortion.  It is nice having the 2-wire because in times when you need to be very stealthy you can just plug the mics directly into you recorder.

[poorlyconditioned]

All of them need the 3-wire mod to sound decent.  Even under somewhat loud environments (ie., any rock show) you should see an improvement with proper powering.  Use either Phantom adapters or 3-wire and they will sound great.

  Richard

I have been using the 4.7k mod with the 2-wire for some time now and have had terrific results.  I have taped in very loud rock situations with no distortion.  It is nice having the 2-wire because in times when you need to be very stealthy you can just plug the mics directly into you recorder.

Yep, that works great too.  I've found loud sounds will overload if you just run plug-in-power.  But great for stealthing quieter shows.  But most of my mics have a hard-wired battery box anyway.  Not much more to carry and no worries about levels.

  Richard

[SkttrWave]

it's getting a lot clearer now
only thing i'm still not sure about: is "at933's" the proper way to list my mics in source info?

ps SkttrWave, how are you getting on with sourcing a 3-wire bb?

I don't have the parts yet. I do know what i'm going to order and hope to have everything before the holidays, then i'll have some free time to start working on it.

[j.mart]

it's getting a lot clearer now
only thing i'm still not sure about: is "at933's" the proper way to list my mics in source info?

According to the info given above, you should have the 853 capsules. They are the big ones right?

If so something like this should do it: AT933 (AT853 caps), or simply AT853. I'd go for the latter.