Topic: Mic in, Line in, battery box, pre-amp when do I use what?

[ScotK]

Hi Everyone,

I've actually managed to record a few good shows successfully, but I'm still not quite sure what
I'm doing. My recorders are a Neuros DAC and a HiMD. I have set of basic binaural, cardoid, and
omni mics from SP along with their 9v battery box.  Before I got the battery box, I recorded
a very loud Dave Alvin show and basically saturated both recorders.  The next time I recorded
Dave I used the battery line-in, but I'm not really sure of what the logic is for when I should
use what: mic-in, line-in, battery, pre-amp (don't have), etc.
Are there some standard guidelines I can learn?

Thanks,

scot

[sunjan]

Hi Everyone,

I've actually managed to record a few good shows successfully, but I'm still not quite sure what
I'm doing. My recorders are a Neuros DAC and a HiMD. I have set of basic binaural, cardoid, and
omni mics from SP along with their 9v battery box.  Before I got the battery box, I recorded
a very loud Dave Alvin show and basically saturated both recorders.  The next time I recorded
Dave I used the battery line-in, but I'm not really sure of what the logic is for when I should
use what: mic-in, line-in, battery, pre-amp (don't have), etc.
Are there some standard guidelines I can learn?

An external pre should be used if:
1. the built in pre/gain stage of the recorder is of poor quality
2. or the signal your feeding isn't hot enough, which would force the recorder gain into the digital range.

For Hi-MD, i recall a few threads discussing this. Use the search function. Generally, the built in pre stage is considered to be very good, so you shouldn't need a preamp for the Hi-MD.

I assume you're running rockbox on the Neuros? Do you know how many volts the mic-in jack is feeding? Does it even have separate line-in/mic-in?
I doubt that the specs are any better than the H120, so my guess is that a preamp would be a good addition to that rig (but still no improvement compared to your Hi-MD, other than you saving on blank media) 

[fmaderjr]

It will probably be hard to find anyone who knows about the Neuros, but a few simple rules should make recording with HI-MD fairly easy for you.

For anything moderately loud, it's probably safest to go battery box > Line in. As long as you set your levels so the meters don't go above 0 DB you should be fine (unless the concert is so loud that your mics can't handle it).

For acoustic and other quiet stuff, you can go battery box > mic in. Using the battery box improves dynamic range, but many people skip the battery box and just go mic in for acoustic. You can actually use battery box > mic in for fairly loud shows as well, as long as it is not so loud that you need to set your levels below 12/30 to keep the meters from reaching 0 DB. The Hi-MD mic preamp won't distort if the levels can be set at 12/30 or above with the meters staying below 0 DB.  If you are using mic in and need to set your levels below 12/30, your mic preamp is producing “brick wall" distortion and you need to switch to line in immediately.

You probably will need a pre-amp to get the most out of the Neuros, but it really isn't necessary with the HiMD (HiMD recorders have pretty good mic pre-amps).

[batchain]

For a brief time long ago I used a Neuros and used the line-in for everything but the quietest shows.

[ScotK]

Sounds like I'm generally on the right track, then. Thanks everyone.

I did not know rockbox was available for the Neuros, so I'll check it out. The original
software works pretty well, though, I think.

Thanks again,

scot

[sunjan]

I did not know rockbox was available for the Neuros, so I'll check it out. The original
software works pretty well, though, I think.

Sorry, I goofed on that one! I read that the developers are working on getting Rockbox for Neuros III, but that model hasn't been released yet:
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Rockbox#Neuros_III_devices

Apart from that, Chris Church did some testing on the earlier Neuros, and found that a pre was essential to get decent sound:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,73941.msg991944.html#msg991944
But even with a pre, the Neuros has some major flaws, several users here got clicks and skips on their WAVs when recording.
What's your experience on that, ScotK?

/J

[ScotK]

Hi Sunjan,

[I've recorded several shows with the Neuros and I haven't had any major disasters with it. Well, my very first
recording had
a lot of noise, but that never re-appeared, so I figured it might have been the source or the fact that I was running
with the AC power in and the light on, or something. It was still
listenable, though. No noticeable clicks or skips.

What I have noticed, though, is that every time I record with both the Neuros and the Hi-MD, the Hi-MD sounds better.
I was attributing that to the microphones I used on each, but perhaps it is the pre-amp.  SBD recordings on the Neuros
have been pretty good.

That said, I've been looking for a replacement, lately.

OH, and thanks for the info on Rockbox. I investigated myself as well and saw the usual in progress bit about the NIII - same
sort of stuff you read on the Neuros site.  Too bad it's not ever coming out.
The tapersesction link you provided was pretty interesting, though, too. Thanks.
I don't find too many people familiar with the NII!

scot