Topic: upgrade to my stealth rig???

[Gr8ful98]

I have a basic stealth rig, consists of:

Oade Binaural Mics(twist tied into a hat)>9v batt box>JB3

What would you suggest as an upgrade, or make life easier?

[blastroknow]

an iriver h120 instead of the jb3?

smaller, better meters, Rockbox

[run_run_run]

maybe some cards, AT-853s?

[Gr8ful98]

found an iriver 120 used for $189.95, is that a fair price?

does it have an internal a/d converter, so I can go mics>batt box>iriver

what is a rockbox?
where's a good place to look at AT-853s?

Are there any small recorders that provide power to mics? like an all in one stealth box?

Probably a silly questions, but can I mod my 120 gig ipod to be a recorder?
Mics>batt box>ipod???

[blastroknow]

found an iriver 120 used for $189.95, is that a fair price?

does it have an internal a/d converter, so I can go mics>batt box>iriver

what is a rockbox?

$100 - $125 is a good price for an h120 - $189 too high!

It works perfect with your mics/batt box nothing else needed.

Rockbox is firmware that runs on the iriver and is geared for recording applications www.rockbox.org

[run_run_run]

just peep the yard sale

[Gr8ful98]

I'm sold on the Church 9100 pre amp, but mics...

ca-14 mics

or AT933 (CMC-8) hypers

or mod AT853 mic

Also...if I'm replacing my JB3, would y'all recommend a MAudio Microtrack or R09?

[su6oxone]

So I'm thinking:

ca-14 mics and 9100 preamp

or AT933 (CMC-8) hypers

or mod AT853 mic

I'm sold on the Church ST-9100 preamp...but mics???

Found the above mics available in yard sale, or through Chris @ Church Audio

any thoughts?

I've owned or tried the CA-11 and AT853 and can say that they are nice mics.  The others are more expensive mics from those two brands, and all are considered to be good compact mics.  Personally, if you also want a 9100 I would go for the CA-11 or CA-14 package deal with the 9100, or find some in YS.  The AT mics are good too, but a bit pricier, but have all types of caps available (although 943/933 doesn't have subcardioid caps at all and the 853 are only available used).  For that range, consider also the microphone madness HLSC-1 mics if you can find some used.

[Gr8ful98]

CA-11 vs. CA-14?

Maudio microtrack vs. R09?

[Brian Skalinder]

IMO, no one can make a reasonable recommendation without your first answering a few questions:

• What do you mean by "make life easier" and / or what do you find a hassle with your current gear?
• What's your budget?
• Do you prefer to stack tape, or capture ambient recordings?
• What do you find lacking in your current recordings?

[Gr8ful98]

Thanks...guess I'm all over the place & not to the point.

To answer these questions:

What do you mean by "make life easier" and / or what do you find a hassle with your current gear?
   -Make life easier, I want something smaller/easier to carry or hide than the JB3.
What's your budget?
   -$200-$400
Do you prefer to stack tape, or capture ambient recordings?
   -I don't know what stack tape vs. ambient recordings means. I like to tape bands.
What do you find lacking in your current recordings?
   -Quality sound
 
 
 

[illconditioned]

Thanks...guess I'm all over the place & not to the point.

To answer these questions:

What do you mean by "make life easier" and / or what do you find a hassle with your current gear?
   -Make life easier, I want something smaller/easier to carry or hide than the JB3.
What's your budget?
   -$200-$400
Do you prefer to stack tape, or capture ambient recordings?
   -I don't know what stack tape vs. ambient recordings means. I like to tape bands.
What do you find lacking in your current recordings?
   -Quality sound

I would buy the Edirol R09 in the YS.  This is $220, and you'll probably keep it for a while.

This will greatly improve your sound, since the NJB3 analog in is not very good.  I would not use analog in on the iRiver either.  They are not good, especially for (low-level) mic signals.

I would try that for a while and then regroup to pick a better set of mics.  A good choice would be either AT853 or Church's CA-11 cardioids.  If you want omni, go for Chris' CAFFS ($150-200, depending).

  Richard

[beeco]

I'll second the R-09 (or R-09HR) as a solid recommendation.  Can't believe how much I like my new deck, and it was only a little over $300 with the Live.com cash back thing on eBay.

And the CA-14/ST9100 rig from Church is freakin amazing.  I'm using the combo for both low-profile and open taping. 

Don't get rid of those Oade mics, though.  Those are great little omnis.

[fleish]

I second the AT853 as a quality, great-sounding stealth mic

[Brian Skalinder]

Smaller / easier to carry, hide, use than the JB3:  R-09.
Budget of $200-400:  R-09 or mics.
Improve sound quality:  R-09 or mics.

Based on the above, I agree with some of my fellow TSers.  R-09 is the way to go for the moment, as it fits all three points - usability, budget, improved quality.  Upgrading your mics will also have a positive impact on sound quality - perhaps more significant than switching to an R-09 - but usability will still be an issue, and the JB3 will still limit the quality to a degree, as well.

Stack taping = standing very close to the PA stack and recording as much direct signal as possible while minimizing the sound of the room
Ambient recording = standing farther back in the room, preferably in the "sweet spot" where it sounds best

The reason I asked about stack v. ambient:  omnis are quite good for stack taping, but sometimes suffer for ambient recording due to crowd noise, poor venue acoustics, less than ideal location, etc.  (That said, they can really sound great for ambient recording in the right crowd / venue / location.)  Cardioids, on the other hand, can help mitigate crowd / venue acoustics / location challenges.  So it might be worth considering a pair of stealth cardioid mics as a next step in the upgrade path.

[darktrain]

I run a Marantz PMD620 and it has a great internal pre which will power any plug in mic without a bb or preamp with no problems(i use mm-hlsc-1's(4.7k mod) but the at853(modded) will be pretty similar), i have recorded(and very succesfully) metal bands like Iron maiden, Testament and Danzig with just the mics going mic in(12bd limiter) into the pmd620

[J.Maye]

I would (and did) go with the $249 omni/card/9100 CA package, and you could still get an H120 for ~$400 total. Save up some more cash, get the R09 and sell the h120, and that puts you ~$550 total, but you can do it in steps.

Or, since you already have a battery box, you could get the R09 and a new set of mics now (ca, 853, ect) and worry about a pre later.   

[tcf]

You would be in the 550 range with a used microtracker and new Nevaton mce400's.  I would recomend this setup over anything else.  Highly flexible, no battery box, very good sounding mics.  PM TNJAZZGRASS for samples.

TF

[fmaderjr]

Note on the Nevaton mce400's recommendation: As good as these mics are, I would not rely on any omni mic as your only mic unless you only tape by the stacks. I have DPA 4060's & 4061's. I've made incredible sounding recordings with them when I can get them near the sound source, but the few times I've tried them a decent distance from the stage or stacks, the sound as been very disappointing (not nearly as good as if I had used the much more inexpensive CA-11 cards).

I second J. Maye's H120 recommendation (with rockbox installed) if you want to save money over buying an R-09. Although illconditioned (who is much more knowledgeable than I am) doesn't like the analog in, I think it does a great job if you are recording a loud source. Since it looks like you will also be getting the ST-9100 pre (a great choice) you will be able to use that with the H120 to do a good job recording lower level sources as well. Just get the first 20 dB of gain from the ST-9100.

[tcf]

I disagree strongly with the assertation that omnis are only good for stack taping.  The mce 400's are more akin to a subcard and are certainly directional no matter what the marketing states.  This is first hand info with using these mics for more than a year.  Second, I never stack tape and you don't have the "omni bass bloat" with the mce 400's.  Again, check the samples that TNJAZZGRASS can send you and decide for yourself.  I have been a low pro taper for over 15 years and wish I'd heard about the 400's a long time ago. 

[fmaderjr]

tcf-I'll of course defer to your experience with the mic. That the mics are actually directional will help away from the stage also. I didn't really mean omni's are only good for stack taping, though. I meant up fairly close (and also, I've heard, out doors and in unusually good sounding rooms). My view was based on my experience with the DPA 406* omni series.

[illconditioned]

I disagree strongly with the assertation that omnis are only good for stack taping.  The mce 400's are more akin to a subcard and are certainly directional no matter what the marketing states.  This is first hand info with using these mics for more than a year.  Second, I never stack tape and you don't have the "omni bass bloat" with the mce 400's.  Again, check the samples that TNJAZZGRASS can send you and decide for yourself.  I have been a low pro taper for over 15 years and wish I'd heard about the 400's a long time ago. 

I agree.  I've done a ton of omni taping over the years.  Basically if you can get *close enough* that the sound is good, omnis will sound good.  What often happens is I get way up close, usually close to one stack, so I get PA from that and stage/ambient as well.  I then move about (subtly, between songs) to reduce the chatter.  This only works in standing/general admission venues, but that is where I tape mostly anyway.

The only time I really wish for cardioids is when I'm in a seated venue, and when the room is large and boom.  Otherwise I almost always prefer the open and natural omni sound.

  Richard

[hypnotoad]

I run a Marantz PMD620 and it has a great internal pre which will power any plug in mic without a bb or preamp with no problems(i use mm-hlsc-1's(4.7k mod) but the at853(modded) will be pretty similar), i have recorded(and very succesfully) metal bands like Iron maiden, Testament and Danzig with just the mics going mic in(12bd limiter) into the pmd620

I have to agree with Darktrain on this one, same recorder here.  I've also run a pmd620 straight to a set of at853's with great success.  Also tried the deck with a pair of 943's and liked the way that recording came out too.  That little Marantz deck is very underrated if you ask me.  Great size, great features, great sound.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

My current stealth rig is pretty much what some of our fellow TSer's are suggesting:AT831's (from Sound Professionals) or Church CA-11's through a Sound Professionals battery box and into a regular R-09.  Put simply, I LOVE my rig and I've gotten some great pulls with both the SP's and Church's with and without using the battery box.  Can't tell you about the AT853's or CA-14's but both are a little more expensive, have slightly better specs and (in the case of the AT853's) interchangeable capsules, so I imagine that you could only get better results with them.  Additionally, both Chris Carfagno and Chris Church have outstanding products and are a pleasure to deal with; both have helped me out in a clinch.  Gonna be busy for the rest of the weekend, but PM me if you'd like some samples of both.  Cheers and Happy Halloween.