FWIW, I have found that the trim adds up to 28dB of gain. Each increment seems to be 1 dB. Setting 0 mutes the input.
The same 28dB of gain is available on all input modes (mic low/high, line).
My measurements of the gain range for each mode are less accurate. But it is approximately:
mic low: 17 dB (17-45dB)
mic high: 42 dB (42-70dB)
line: 12 dB (12-40dB)
Still wondering how mic low sounds compared to line.
Question is: Am I better off shooting for the lower range of the line in control or the higher range?
Another important question is for quiet sources when running input > line in (schoeps > rmod > r09 mostly in my case).. Is it better to run no r09 gain and add it in post or is it better to run r09 gain..
A few more thoughts.....been using energizer lithiums
getting 8 hours record time with these, but i noticed when the
batt display finally comes off of full charge, it only takes about
20 more minutres until they are dead. The first few days when i was
playing around with the thing i used duracells and the batt display
showed a more accurate slower discharge.
A few more thoughts.....been using energizer lithiums
getting 8 hours record time with these, but i noticed when the
batt display finally comes off of full charge, it only takes about
20 more minutres until they are dead. The first few days when i was
playing around with the thing i used duracells and the batt display
showed a more accurate slower discharge.
Did you change the battery setting in the setup - going from the alkalines to the lithiums, or did you leave it the same?
dB-
Thats probably due to the meter only being calibrated for standard AA batterys or NiMh, there is no option for Lithiums. They all have different discharge voltage characteristics.
Another important question is for quiet sources when running input > line in (schoeps > rmod > r09 mostly in my case).. Is it better to run no r09 gain and add it in post or is it better to run r09 gain..
What's the output of the rmod? Do you know? When I was runnung Schoeps VMS > iRiver, I set the VMS at +10db and adjusted the levels via iRiver... I never had to do more then +/- 3db to get the levels right. I would think if you don't have to use the R-09's gain to much is should be ok to use.
I don't plan to run the sax any hotter than +6dB based on this first time out.
I don't plan to run the sax any hotter than +6dB based on this first time out.
Why? Why not set the R-09 to 0 (or +1) and use the sax to control the levels? That's my plan.
but since I stealth with the sax in my pants, it's much easier to do the levels with the R-09.
Does this unit allow you to monitor while recording?
This should come just in time for Bon Jovi on FridayI'm guessing I lost a T for that (and I know rule number 1....), for the record, I plan on taping my band and stowing the gear. I really don't have any interest in Nickelback or Bon Jovi.
is there a preferred brand of 4GB SD cards?
Does this unit allow you to monitor while recording?
Yes it does. At least for headphone analog out. Haven't tried to use the optical out while recording.
There's a setting in the menu for turning the monitoring SW on/off while recording.
what 4gig cards are you guys using?
also any rec on a card reader?
thanks in advance
Does this unit allow you to monitor while recording?
Yes it does. At least for headphone analog out. Haven't tried to use the optical out while recording.
what 4gig cards are you guys using?
also any rec on a card reader?
thanks in advance
Look about 5 post up :)
is this the transcend everybodies getting?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820163159&ATT=20-163-159&CMP=OTC-Froogle
is this the transcend everybodies getting?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820163159&ATT=20-163-159&CMP=OTC-Froogle
also is it something that needs to be done everytime you reuse the card or is it a one and done thing?
also is it something that needs to be done everytime you reuse the card or is it a one and done thing?
Def. not necessary every time. You can delete the individual files or move them off the card and write new ones. Probably a good idea to format occasionally to keep the file sys in good shape. Also convienient to quickly wipe the whole card clean without deleting each file individually. No idea about using the Mac to format the card, sorry.
is this the transcend everybodies getting?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820163159&ATT=20-163-159&CMP=OTC-Froogle
Yup. Getting cheaper too.
so how do you format on a PC, ive never dealt with flash cards before, just wondering what has to be done, time consuming or difficult to do?
so how do you format on a PC, ive never dealt with flash cards before, just wondering what has to be done, time consuming or difficult to do?
couldn't be simpler. mount the card in your PC, via card reader, via the r09, whatever, then just right click on whatever drive letter it assigns. go to the 'tools' menu, format is there.
I have a question about the 4GB cards and how people are using them ...
However, the issue is all about the 2 GB limit. Say I make one recording that is 2.5 Gig. Can the Edirol still adress the free space and create a new file? I could see being able to make a single 4GB file but not 4 individual 1 Gig files. Has anyone tried this?
If the only issue from not officially supporting 4GB cards is that the unit can't format internally or display free space correctly, I will purchase one. I just need to know that I will be able to use all that space.
Asking another way, are there more limitations to the 4GB card than formatting and free space reporting?
...As I've understood it you need the input level at at least +1 to manage to record anything at all, but with mics and a preamp it would be better to adjust it at the preamp and leave the R-09 at +1. I'm thinking about loud rock shows where you might want to leave the input level low.
Both inputs (mic & lin-in) will mute if the input level is set to "0". So be careful if you are adjusting input levels on the recorder and are near the bottom of the input range or you may inadvertantly mute the input if you go to low.
The jury is still out on how the gain structure works in this thing. We won't know the best way to run it until someone does some bench testing or noise listening tests. Using mic-in obviously adds gain as the record level is increased. If you are using an external preamp, you'll most likely go line in. How the level control for the line-in works is still in question. It may add analog gain as the control is increased, may add digital gain, or may just attenuate the signal.
Not sure if that is good news or bad news.... gain and attenuation all build right in.
Chances are, even if the R-09 is attenuating at the level you need to keep headroom, that the pre you are using is cleaner than the R-09 therefore the attenuation is actually giveing you a better S/N ratio or EIN.
No it would not be true if the attenuation was in the DSP and after the A/D conversion, but since we know what CODEC the R-09 is using and we know it has a built in analog gain stage then there would be no reason to implement a digital attenuation stage in DSP except if you are running a gate and need digital silence.
Most A/D converters, internal or external have gain stages wethere or not they have a mic pre in them or not.
So here is my theory of how the R-09 line-in works, if you set it below 8 you are attenuating the signal, all the way down to 0 which is 100% attenuated, no sound. And any setting above 8 is adding gain. So if you have a super nice preamp that you want to use, set the R-09 to 8 and then use the controls on the pre to set the levels after that.
the display read "card error" and "SD unformatted", and then the standby display read "no card." (instead of "no song" when you have a blank card)
Sometime this week I need to register the unit and give Roland a call to send it in for the factory reset issue.
If anyone can help me fix this 0 length file thing using audiohack or any audio application (wavelab, sf, cep, etc.) please help.
i had an interesting situation this week where i recorded the opening set, and then powered everything off during set changes. when i powered back on, the display read "card error" and "SD unformatted", and then the standby display read "no card." (instead of "no song" when you have a blank card) . i was pissed b/c i thought i would have to format the card, i headed down thatpath, it asked me if i was sure, and i said no. powered off the unit. popped out the SD card, popped it back in, and powered up. it read the card fine, and my opener file was still on there. and i started the file for the main band at that point . FWIW this was w/ a 2G card.
If anyone can help me fix this 0 length file thing using audiohack or any audio application (wavelab, sf, cep, etc.) please help.
George: I've used audiohack several times with success. It's pretty straightforward to use... copy the WAV file to your HDD.
Then, you start up audiohack > drag & drop the WAV file onto the audiohack window > enter the destination\filename, and audiohack will write two WAV files (the 2nd WAV file is the "keeper," and I'm not sure what the 1st WAV file's purpose is).
If the file won't copy from the R-09 to your HDD to begin with, then simply start up audiohack (with the R-09 hooked up via USB) and drag & drop the WAV file from the 'removable drive' (R-09) onto the audiohack command prompt window.
Do you have audiohack? If not, it's available here: http://www.shoptheozarks.com/GGM/audiohck.zip
Good luck. ;)
Sometime this week I need to register the unit and give Roland a call to send it in for the factory reset issue.
Sometime this week I need to register the unit and give Roland a call to send it in for the factory reset issue.
Sounds like the backup battery is failing. You can see the battery on the board pics I took in the part I thread...
dB-
Sucks to hear inconsistencies using 2GB cards as well. I can understand getting these errors with the 4GBs since they're not supported but not 2GB. Vikas, which brand are you using and did Edirol publish a supported list like M-Audio did with the Microtrack?
an FYI for those considering the transcend 4GB card like myself. looks like the rebate offer at newegg.com expires this saturday 7/22 in case you want to order one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820163159
I believe the manual mentions, it provides a max of 3.3 VDC.
I downloaded it last night but didn't get it working so I will try again this afternoon while I'm sitting at the Cedar Rapids and/or Chicago OHare airports waiting for my delayed flights home. Thanks in advance for your help.
I downloaded it last night but didn't get it working so I will try again this afternoon while I'm sitting at the Cedar Rapids and/or Chicago OHare airports waiting for my delayed flights home. Thanks in advance for your help.
hah! the weather in chicago (burbs) is rain and thunder right now so dont be surprised w/ delays. my flight back from san fran yesterday included a 3hr delay and an unexpected landing/refueling in indianapolis....
I believe the manual mentions, it provides a max of 3.3 VDC.
For the people asking a few days ago about phantom, just found in the knowledge base:
Note: The R-09 provides 5V of phantom power.
i had an interesting situation this week where i recorded the opening set, and then powered everything off during set changes. when i powered back on, the display read "card error" and "SD unformatted", and then the standby display read "no card." (instead of "no song" when you have a blank card) . i was pissed b/c i thought i would have to format the card, i headed down thatpath, it asked me if i was sure, and i said no. powered off the unit. popped out the SD card, popped it back in, and powered up. it read the card fine, and my opener file was still on there. and i started the file for the main band at that point . FWIW this was w/ a 2G card.
If anyone can help me fix this 0 length file thing using audiohack or any audio application (wavelab, sf, cep, etc.) please help.
George: I've used audiohack several times with success. It's pretty straightforward to use... copy the WAV file to your HDD.
Then, you start up audiohack > drag & drop the WAV file onto the audiohack window > enter the destination\filename, and audiohack will write two WAV files (the 2nd WAV file is the "keeper," and I'm not sure what the 1st WAV file's purpose is).
If the file won't copy from the R-09 to your HDD to begin with, then simply start up audiohack (with the R-09 hooked up via USB) and drag & drop the WAV file from the 'removable drive' (R-09) onto the audiohack command prompt window.
Do you have audiohack? If not, it's available here: http://www.shoptheozarks.com/GGM/audiohck.zip
Good luck. ;)
I got mine today. WOO FUCKING HOO!!!!! and at a damn good price. the learning curve on this bad boy is about two minutes.
If anyone can help me fix this 0 length file thing using audiohack or any audio application (wavelab, sf, cep, etc.) please help.
George: I've used audiohack several times with success. It's pretty straightforward to use... copy the WAV file to your HDD.
Then, you start up audiohack > drag & drop the WAV file onto the audiohack window > enter the destination\filename, and audiohack will write two WAV files (the 2nd WAV file is the "keeper," and I'm not sure what the 1st WAV file's purpose is).
If the file won't copy from the R-09 to your HDD to begin with, then simply start up audiohack (with the R-09 hooked up via USB) and drag & drop the WAV file from the 'removable drive' (R-09) onto the audiohack command prompt window.
Do you have audiohack? If not, it's available here: http://www.shoptheozarks.com/GGM/audiohck.zip
Good luck. ;)
I downloaded it last night but didn't get it working so I will try again this afternoon while I'm sitting at the Cedar Rapids and/or Chicago OHare airports waiting for my delayed flights home. Thanks in advance for your help.
thanks to all posters for the useful comments on the R-09. i'm thinking i'll pick one up. would any of you owners care to conjecture if with the right small tools one could cut out an opening on the battery cover to allow access to the usb prot without opening the cover?
R09 vs AKG 481 > Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671
the 481s were DFC clamped at 10'
the R09 was on the drink rail 2' ROC at 4'
track 1 R09 http://www.sendspace.com/file/ktdmci
track 2 AKG 481 > Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671 http://www.sendspace.com/file/4vsqmx
On Weds I'm going to try
MK4 > SX-M2/LS2 (XLR Out) > iRiver H120 (-6db)
vs.
MK4 > SX-M2/LS2 (3.5mm Out) > Edirol R-09
I'm going to run the iRiver at -6db cause the XLRs out on the Sax are +6db compared to the 3.5MM I'll post my results :)
Rick
On Weds I'm going to try
MK4 > SX-M2/LS2 (XLR Out) > iRiver H120 (-6db)
vs.
MK4 > SX-M2/LS2 (3.5mm Out) > Edirol R-09
I'm going to run the iRiver at -6db cause the XLRs out on the Sax are +6db compared to the 3.5MM I'll post my results :)
Rick
I'd suggest using a headphone splitter for this insted of XLR and 3.5mm go 3.5mm to splitter to both units otherwise you'll have an impedence mismatch on the iriver and if you use a transformer to correctly match the impedence the transformer will have a big impact of the sound (could be good or bad).
my $.02 if you want to get an accurate comp
peace, chris
Yeah, that's what I ended up doing last week at Soulive--used a headphone splitter out of the mp-2 and ran one strait to the r09 and the other to a sbm-1>jb3. It worked great.
Yeah, that's what I ended up doing last week at Soulive--used a headphone splitter out of the mp-2 and ran one strait to the r09 and the other to a sbm-1>jb3. It worked great.
may I ask if you noticed a difference in the quality of the two recordings?
So Drew, how did the Bonamassa turn out? any problems with the lack of windscreens?
R09 vs AKG 481 > Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671I'm actually really impressed with the built in mics. They're not perfect, but as stated earlier, great for the quick and dirty jobs. What I'm really excited about is the idea of running this badboy in the hotel stops between tour stops, when the guys I archive bust out the acoustics and just start making shit up. So much faster than saying "Hey guys, give me like five minutes to boot up the laptop and find the battery for my UA5...."
James Speer Band
"View"
the 481s were DFC clamped at 10'
the R09 was on the drink rail 2' ROC at 4'
I just finished a little battery test of my own. Powerex 2500 mAh. I got 9 hours of record time. The low battery indicator came on about the 8:50 mark, so there was still a few minutes left. I recorded at 64 kbps .
Don't get rid of the H120 just yet. I posted a question out there if anyone had tried a USB On-the-Go hook-up, which is making its way into the main scene with portable devices. I think I will be tracking down this puppy - http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=245923 (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=245923) - to try running off R-09 file onto my H340. Also, Macally makes a drive that just does a full disk copy straight to a portable drive with a push of a button, into serial folders so I don't think you would have to worry about the repeated file names. You could simulate that by preloading some empty subdirectories on your H120 and then using the Belkin to drag over the files, confirm on the H120, and then delete from the R-09. The Belkin is also battery powered... Seems like there are some good portable mass storage options out there. I love the idea of doing this with my H340, because then you have playback right there on your MPR drive :D
Anyone have any thoughts or experience with these things? I ran across trying to figure out how to hook my R-09 to my H340, with no TypeB mini to TypeB mini cables in sight...
very likely just showing my ignorance....but could one transfer files from the R-09 to a H1xx using optical out of R-09 to optical in of H1xx? ( though only H1xx has optical in )
http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/dld.cfm?ln=en&dsp=0&iCncd=1072
http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/dld.cfm?ln=en&dsp=0&iCncd=1072
when I click on download, all I get is a bunch of code.
R09 vs AKG 481 > Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671
James Speer Band
"View"
the 481s were DFC clamped at 10'
the R09 was on the drink rail 2' ROC at 4'
track 1 R09 http://www.sendspace.com/file/ktdmci
track 2 AKG 481 > Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671 http://www.sendspace.com/file/4vsqmx
Thanks for the firmware link.. I went there last week wondering whether I had the latest but couldn't find anything about firmware.. So I've been running 1.02 up until now (with great results).
I had a second instance of the 'switched into 16/44' bug. Still haven't trained myself to always look at the available record time to watch for it. Fortunately it was an opener. I wonder if this is fixed in 1.03?
Thanks for the firmware link.. I went there last week wondering whether I had the latest but couldn't find anything about firmware.. So I've been running 1.02 up until now (with great results).
I had a second instance of the 'switched into 16/44' bug. Still haven't trained myself to always look at the available record time to watch for it. Fortunately it was an opener. I wonder if this is fixed in 1.03?
Can't say for sure but I upgraded the firmware as soon as I got mine and have never experienced that problem, so it might.
R09 vs AKG 481 > Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671
James Speer Band
"View"
the 481s were DFC clamped at 10'
the R09 was on the drink rail 2' ROC at 4'
track 1 R09 http://www.sendspace.com/file/ktdmci
track 2 AKG 481 > Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671 http://www.sendspace.com/file/4vsqmx
thanks for hosting those on your site
+T
The two files have been zipped and uploaded to a permanent link on my webspace.
http://www.scubajeremy.net/R09InternalCompare.zip
how so? its all about write speed and capacity, no? please elaborate and drop and name for a card to check out.. thanksnot sure if someone has mentioned the 150x ridata cards. i did a ton of research for my digital photography and use the 2GB 150x version with no problems and i love the speed. if i end up getting an R09 i'll get this card
The requirements of digital photography are completely different than recording.
Faster is not better for recording and in some cases its much worse, adding noise or not working at all. See this thread for more details: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68824.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68824.0)yep.. just found this thread too...
Faster is not better for recording and in some cases its much worse, adding noise or not working at all. See this thread for more details: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68824.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68824.0)
Faster is not better for recording and in some cases its much worse, adding noise or not working at all. See this thread for more details: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68824.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68824.0)
just for argument's sake, before you spread the FUD further, has anyone reported any issues with high-speed secure digital cards in the r09?
not that i've read.
Whats FUD mean?
That speed advice comes from Roland (Edirol) tech support, in this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=66815.0
And its not surprising after noting that nearly every flash based recorder is reporting problems with some of the faster cards in other threads.
Whats FUD mean?
I'm aware it's been said, I'm asking if anyone here has actually reported issues with a high-speed card and the r09. i don't believe the answer to that is 'yes'.
So what happens when the recording goes over that limit?
;D Excellent! +Ts to you and Leehookem, thanks guys! Can't wait to pop the cherry on my R09 tonight! Hitting up Ray Lamontagne and Guster.So what happens when the recording goes over that limit?
You enjoy the show and smile with no worries.
Minor gotcha on the r09 last night.. Recorded 2+ hours @ 24/48.. When I was done I wanted to review the peaks, etc on the way home but it said the file was only 1 second long. The file size displayed as 1.X GB so I wasn't too worried and figured it was just a 2GB+ file display bug. Copied the file off just fine. It was about 2.7GB. That was with 1.03.
So don't freak if this happens.
Got my R-09 yesterday and it looks great. The only bad thing I found is that annoying red recording indicator light. How is everyone covering it when stealthing? And the display could be bigger (or I should wear my glasses more often).
And the display could be bigger (or I should wear my glasses more often).
I don't worry about security spotting it since it probably looks like i'm just checking my cell phone when i reach for it
FYI - The Transcend 4GB SD Cards are now $89.00 @ newegg and the $30 rebate is now good through 8/7
Rick
FYI - The Transcend 4GB SD Cards are now $89.00 @ newegg and the $30 rebate is now good through 8/7
Rick
:o
What battery life can I expect with Duracell AA's?
And rechargable batteries? (2350 mAH?)
Well, on 2 AA Alkalines, I was able to record over 6 (!) hours.
I just finished a little battery test of my own. Powerex 2500 mAh. I got 9 hours of record time. The low battery indicator came on about the 8:50 mark, so there was still a few minutes left. I recorded at 64 kbps .
just to add, i tried playing the file directly on the R09, and it flashes 'improper song'.
can i retreive this second file? anyone have any advice?
So the batteries match the recording time of a 4GB SD card.What battery life can I expect with Duracell AA's?
And rechargable batteries? (2350 mAH?)Well, on 2 AA Alkalines, I was able to record over 6 (!) hours.
So no WAV. But more CPU for the MP3, right?I just finished a little battery test of my own. Powerex 2500 mAh. I got 9 hours of record time. The low battery indicator came on about the 8:50 mark, so there was still a few minutes left. I recorded at 64 kbps .
interesting issue tonight with the R09 and a Transcend 4GB card. i recorded 2 sets separately, 1 hour each. came home and stuck the transcend in a card reader, and copied to the files over to the HD. file 1 i could open and play, while file 2 gave me a "cannot open RIFF chunk, not a valid WAVE file" message when tryiing to open with CDWave. no luck with foobar either.
i also tried a copy/paste via USB from the R09 but i got the same issue. recordings were done at 24/44, and the file size looks about right, just under 1GB. if it matters, i renamed the files prior to copying them onto my HD.
just to add, i tried playing the file directly on the R09, and it flashes 'improper song'.
can i retreive this second file? anyone have any advice?
[What would the time be for 16-bit WAV?
[What would the time be for 16-bit WAV?
Doing 16/44 with 2000mah NiMh batteries I get >8 hours.
What about the max signal level for line in? 0dBu = 0.775 V rms is the actual figure?
interesting issue tonight with the R09 and a Transcend 4GB card. i recorded 2 sets separately, 1 hour each. came home and stuck the transcend in a card reader, and copied to the files over to the HD. file 1 i could open and play, while file 2 gave me a "cannot open RIFF chunk, not a valid WAVE file" message when tryiing to open with CDWave. no luck with foobar either.
i also tried a copy/paste via USB from the R09 but i got the same issue. recordings were done at 24/44, and the file size looks about right, just under 1GB. if it matters, i renamed the files prior to copying them onto my HD.
just to add, i tried playing the file directly on the R09, and it flashes 'improper song'.
can i retreive this second file? anyone have any advice?
I posted my experience at Rob Zombie with a similar issue in this thread back around July 19th. I ended up using UltraEdit as a hex-editor to fix the first 44 bytes of the file manually and was able to retrieve the file. The steps are in this thread or the previous one a few days after 7/19.
If anyone can help me fix this 0 length file thing using audiohack or any audio application (wavelab, sf, cep, etc.) please help.
George: I've used audiohack several times with success. It's pretty straightforward to use... copy the WAV file to your HDD.
Then, you start up audiohack > drag & drop the WAV file onto the audiohack window > enter the destination\filename, and audiohack will write two WAV files (the 2nd WAV file is the "keeper," and I'm not sure what the 1st WAV file's purpose is).
If the file won't copy from the R-09 to your HDD to begin with, then simply start up audiohack (with the R-09 hooked up via USB) and drag & drop the WAV file from the 'removable drive' (R-09) onto the audiohack command prompt window.
Do you have audiohack? If not, it's available here: http://www.shoptheozarks.com/GGM/audiohck.zip
Good luck. ;)
Oh?What about the max signal level for line in? 0dBu = 0.775 V rms is the actual figure?
That is probably right, haven't measured it. You can run a high signal in since with the gain set at <8 it attenuates the line input.
What mods are already offered and by who(m)?
Which mods are recommended?
I recorded a couple shows tonight. AT853Wa (y mod) > "Crown Royal" 3wire > R09. let me just say this rig needs some warmth. mod sbm maybe.
So at at 8 it neither amplifies nor attenuates? (and accepts 0.775V rms to get 0dBFS)
And below 8 it starts attenuating?
If so: that would be very good news! Any idea on how much the max line level can be with attenuation?
I recorded a couple shows tonight. AT853Wa (y mod) > "Crown Royal" 3wire > R09. let me just say this rig needs some warmth. mod sbm maybe.
How many drinks did you have lee? A mod SBM won't work with the R-09 ;D
BTW: Where can I find SNR graphs, figures etc?
I recorded a couple shows tonight. AT853Wa (y mod) > "Crown Royal" 3wire > R09. let me just say this rig needs some warmth. mod sbm maybe.
How many drinks did you have lee? A mod SBM won't work with the R-09 ;D
two
I realized that after I typed it. And it would work, just have to keep the R09 set at 16 bit. :P
Regardless it needs some warmth, or better mics
Who could perform a quick SNR measurement?BTW: Where can I find SNR graphs, figures etc?
The only info I have seen is the specs that Roland has here http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/specs.html (http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/specs.html) No SNR.
fuck off Drew. ;D
forgot about the digital output of the sbm. fuckers
Who could perform a quick SNR measurement?
nice. I'm playing hooky today. my lower back is kinda sore, so I called off.fuck off Drew. ;D
forgot about the digital output of the sbm. fuckers
Would you like the flipa :flipa: or the birdman :thebirdman:, farkin rookie ? ;D
I've been messing around w/ the r-09, mp-2, and TLs this morning. Put them outside and ran m/s taping traffic going by. It's good to have Mondays off. 8)
nice. I'm playing hooky today. my lower back is kinda sore, so I called off.fuck off Drew. ;D
forgot about the digital output of the sbm. fuckers
Would you like the flipa :flipa: or the birdman :thebirdman:, farkin rookie ? ;D
I've been messing around w/ the r-09, mp-2, and TLs this morning. Put them outside and ran m/s taping traffic going by. It's good to have Mondays off. 8)
the mp-2 is an option I forgot about. pretty small too. how hot does it get after extended use?
how hot does it get after extended use?
Thanks! Very usefull.Who could perform a quick SNR measurement?
I don't have the software to do the SNR weighting curves, but I did some self noise analysis you can see here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=69131.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=69131.0)
What mods are already offered and by who(m)?
Which mods are recommended?
none, yet.
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch has these 4GB SD cards:
Secure Digital Card 4GB Aglobe 133x
Secure Digital Card 4GB PQI, 150x
Secure Digital Card 4GB TakeMS, 133x
Secure Digital Card 4GB Transcend, 150x
Secure Digital Card 4GB Traxdata, 150x
Secure Digital Card 4GB Twinmos, ultra-x, 150x
Which ones are OK for the R09?
Now just kick it up a notch and add a wind screen! Nice work on the handy custom "mod".... and nice battery info up there too!
FYI - the internal capsules are mounted internally at a ninety-degree angle from each other and are actually pointing to the top of the recorder and not the sides as one may assume by looking at the unit.
dB-
Awesome, seriously didn't now this. Thanks so much!! +TNow just kick it up a notch and add a wind screen! Nice work on the handy custom "mod".... and nice battery info up there too!
The windscreen mod for the internal mics would be a piece of cake. The chrome metal grills that cover each of the mics are removable from the inside. You simply slide them out and put micro windscreens in their place. FYI - the internal capsules are mounted internally at a ninety-degree angle from each other and are actually pointing to the top of the recorder and not the sides as one may assume by looking at the unit.
dB-
Just got 6 hours and 40 minutes from a set of Sony 2100 mAh rechargeables.Interesting, thanks for sharing!
My two runtime tests with different brands of rechargeables lead me to the conclusion that you can calculate the runtime of the R-09 at 24-bit/48kHz/Line-In as follows:
Runtime in minutes = Capacity of the batteries in mAh * 0.19
It does have a digital out though. I have not tested it to see if its hot while recording.
but i'll always have to format it w/my camera.
but i'll always have to format it w/my camera.
Have you tired formating the card using the computer while the SD card is still in the R09? That's how I format my card.
Now just kick it up a notch and add a wind screen! Nice work on the handy custom "mod".... and nice battery info up there too!
The windscreen mod for the internal mics would be a piece of cake. The chrome metal grills that cover each of the mics are removable from the inside. You simply slide them out and put micro windscreens in their place. FYI - the internal capsules are mounted internally at a ninety-degree angle from each other and are actually pointing to the top of the recorder and not the sides as one may assume by looking at the unit.
dB-
[Indeed...but it's 120 degrees.
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/ebay/R09-mics.jpg)
While I am talking about the internal mics (and after reading both the R-09 mega-threads :) ) I can only assume that 99% of the people here either...
It would be cool if someone with an r09 and the ability could trace the line-in circuit for a bass rolloff filter. I am hopeful that we'll find it on the board and could bypass it. I have not opened my r09 up yet and I'd have to do some studying to figure out what to look for..Capacitor in the line-in path needs probably a bigger value?
I still need to spend a lot of time on those sources to get them to where I can post samples but initial listen confirms the lack of bass in the r09 source.How much roll-off is there from what frequency? I.e.: how do we find out?
Alright, I'm f'n pissed. The r09 source had the bass cut on :-[
And I just verified that it does apply to the line in.
I guess that is what happens when you drink margaritas all day and then try and setup a 3 way comp in 15 minutes ::)
I still think the r09 may be lacking in bass but it won't be verified with this comp.
Alright, I'm f'n pissed. The r09 source had the bass cut on :-[
And I just verified that it does apply to the line in.
I guess that is what happens when you drink margaritas all day and then try and setup a 3 way comp in 15 minutes ::)
Grace specs the analog output to max out at the first set of amber lights, maximum.
So, you're either running for analog, or digital, with neither being optimized, or one possibly overloaded.
Now just kick it up a notch and add a wind screen! Nice work on the handy custom "mod".... and nice battery info up there too!
The windscreen mod for the internal mics would be a piece of cake. The chrome metal grills that cover each of the mics are removable from the inside. You simply slide them out and put micro windscreens in their place. FYI - the internal capsules are mounted internally at a ninety-degree angle from each other and are actually pointing to the top of the recorder and not the sides as one may assume by looking at the unit.
dB-
Indeed...but it's 120 degrees.
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/ebay/R09-mics.jpg)
While I am talking about the internal mics (and after reading both the R-09 mega-threads :) ) I can only assume that 99% of the people here either
1. Record amplified music.
AND
2. Record with external microphones
OR
3. Record an external pre-amp + External Mics.
I say this because if you are trying to use an R-09 to record ambient sounds using the internal mics, you will need to have the switch to high-gain and the recording level between 15-20 in order to get a decent level. Under these circumstances the preamp-noise in the R-09 internal mic preamp is very noticeable, I am surprised to see so few people mention it. I say this so that anyone thinking to use the internal mics on birds/nature etc is not surprised and disappointed.
High gain mode is only really OK if you can get close enough to the source to achieve -6 dB with level settings of 10 or less (not common). If you have a source sound that is loud enough to let you switch to low gain then the internal mic + internal mic preamp noise is not an issue.
If (as I suspect most people here are doing) you can preamp an external mic and feed the R-09 a line-level signal, then I agree, that is the unit is more than good enough to make use of the 24 bit recording mode and recordings are 'quiet'.
Regards Scott.
www.digifishmusic.com
Scott, thanks for the internal mic info. I think you're correct about people mostly using external mics here, and preamps for quieter ambient stuff. My experience is similar. Once I plugged in some quality mics I didn't use the internals much.
Actually the internal mic preamplifier is adequately quiet enough, but the internal mics themselves are NOT. The noise you hear are from the mics and maybe their power source, NOT the deck's preamplifier as far as I can tell.(http://www.sonicstudios.com/3sx13eqv.gif)
See updated review for external input spectal graphs for this deck at: www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm)
Actually the internal mic preamplifier is adequately quiet enough, but the internal mics themselves are NOT. The noise you hear are from the mics and maybe their power source, NOT the deck's preamplifier as far as I can tell.(http://www.sonicstudios.com/3sx13eqv.gif)
See updated review for external input spectal graphs for this deck at: www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm)
Interesting....which ones should I be comparing I'm confused :)
Regards Scott
Actually the internal mic preamplifier is adequately quiet enough, but the internal mics themselves are NOT. The noise you hear are from the mics and maybe their power source, NOT the deck's preamplifier as far as I can tell.(http://www.sonicstudios.com/3sx13eqv.gif)
See updated review for external input spectal graphs for this deck at: www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm)
Interesting....which ones should I be comparing I'm confused :)
Regards Scott
You're not the first to find this comparison confusing. All test were done with 1000 ohm dummy load at the inputs of R-09 mic jack and PA-3SX external preamplifier.
Best I can explain, the YELLOW trace is R-09 MIC input at 'HIGH" gain mode with REC level adjust setting at #22 (#30 is maximum) compared to best signal stage external preamplifier I know to design/build set at highest gain selection (PA-3SX external preamp is the green trace). For the deck's preamp set in high mode and #22 REC level, both internal and external preamplifier are applying the same gain to the MIC input with REC adjust set at #18 when external preamp is connected.
Under these conditions, if a mic was connected to either deck's mic input (the internal mic pre), or the external PA-3SX mic pre, the VU would read the same signal strength for identical loudness acoustic sound hitting the microphone, but the electrical input background noise (the electronics) would be at least 20 dB lower using the exteral preamplifier.
Obviously, the external preamplifier is going into the deck's LINE input, while the internal MIC preamp of the R-09 is working from the MIC input on the deck. In other words, for the same applied mic input gain, the green trace shows the recorded background noise with custom designed external preamplifier verses the yellow trace showing the background noise of the internal R-09 mic pre with all input conditions being equal.
Same type comparison is done again with RED trace showing deck's internal preamp now set in LOW mic input mode with REC level adjustment set this time at #30 maximum, and now compared to the VIOLET trace made with PA-3SX pre set at lowest (of three) gain settings with adjusting the deck REC level setting to #18 so input signal gain is again equal for internal/external inputs. This second set of traces (RED vs. Violet) shows at least 12 dB quieter input with the external preamplifier for equal applied mic input signal gain.
Even knowing much lower input noise is possible with special external preamp, the internal mic pre noise of the R-09 deck is NOT bad for general purpose recording with moderately high output microphones.
More details on the issue, if we can track it down for future reference... Most of my files are 24/48, some will open and play just fine. Occassionally I do get a "slow SD card" read on the R-09 at the beginning of the session, and I suspect this may be the culprit, though it did not occur to me to make note of which files that was happenning too. This does not always happen, and I'm not sure what is causing it. I was speculating that it may be when I boot up and go straight to record, perhaps the deck is still processing the card or something like that.Could part of the problem. I also noticed that a few seconds of waiting make a difference.
Also, I formatted to NTFS since it is supposed to be better for large file mgmt. Is this bad, is FAT32 better, is the R-09 definitely meant for FAT32? Sort of re-iterating another question posed above.The R-09 does NTFS?
fwiw...
beat a wand last night w/a r9 and battbox in my crotch. wasn't wanded' right over the goods, but all around it.
:)
My last time thru security using wands was with the R-09, Sax, interconnect and 4023s. The most metal is the XLRs on the mic cables and the wand doesn't ever go off. I've been stealthing like this with the R-1 instead of the R-09 for over a year and been thru at least 10 wands without a problem.
Header was not (re)written. Import as raw.
Depends on the editor software. I see you use Audacity; I think a more experience user can help you.Header was not (re)written. Import as raw.
Thanks, sounds easy but is not for me (beginner): Any idea where I can find more info? Thanks a lot!
Depends on the editor software. I see you use Audacity; I think a more experience user can help you.Header was not (re)written. Import as raw.
Thanks, sounds easy but is not for me (beginner): Any idea where I can find more info? Thanks a lot!
Just try to rename the file to *.raw and use file -> open to import the file. (my guess)
Tried renaming file into xxx.raw and xxx.pcm, but still cannot open it.
Tried renaming file into xxx.raw and xxx.pcm, but still cannot open it.
What happens when you try to open it in Audacity? Did you open it via File | Open or Project | Import? Maybe try CD-Wave (http://www.cdwave.com)?
Tried renaming file into xxx.raw and xxx.pcm, but still cannot open it.
What happens when you try to open it in Audacity? Did you open it via File | Open or Project | Import? Maybe try CD-Wave (http://www.cdwave.com)?
That's not going to stop me from trying it with the MBHO/MP2 combo tomorrow
please don't tell me it sounds like an sbm1 :-\
thats a sound that I've never liked, and actually disliked.
thats a sound that I've never liked, and actually disliked.
Have you had a chance to use it yet?
The gig that I'd hoped to break it in on was cancelled, so, not yet. I have a couple coming up, but not for a couple of weeks now.
Hey all... After selling my MT and picking up a few iRivers then deciding I really wanted 24bit since sometimes I would be mixing in SBD feeds with my R-4 (and deciding to give up on digi in for now) I went ahead and picked up a R-9. It will be here tomorrow. I've been going through this thread and just wanted to verify that so far it seems the Transend 4gig card has been working the best for most people. It also sounds like that will need to be formatted on the computer. Can somone recommend a good (hopefully cheep) reader? After reading several reviews of readers out there it seems like some have issues reading different size cards.
So to sum it up.... As of now:
1. Transcend 4gig SD card seems the most compatible?
2. Best to format on the PC (FAT32)? Or can the R-9 format reliably?
3. Any recommended reader?
4. Oh yea... what is battery life like? Is it just best to swap them out or is there a good battery pack available?
I hate to beg, but a fast response would be nice as I'd like to order so I can use for a unique situation this weekend that I will probably not see again soon..
Thanks for the input,
Dana
So to sum it up.... As of now:
....
4. Oh yea... what is battery life like? Is it just best to swap them out or is there a good battery pack available?
...
No experience with flash makes, but suggest using OXY-alkaline now made by Sony and Panasonic as most likely to give 5+ hours recording time. I have been using these for a few weeks with the R-09 and get at least 5 hours.
<SNIP>
Hey all... After selling my MT and picking up a few iRivers then deciding I really wanted 24bit since sometimes I would be mixing in SBD feeds with my R-4 (and deciding to give up on digi in for now) I went ahead and picked up a R-9. It will be here tomorrow. I've been going through this thread and just wanted to verify that so far it seems the Transend 4gig card has been working the best for most people. It also sounds like that will need to be formatted on the computer. Can somone recommend a good (hopefully cheep) reader? After reading several reviews of readers out there it seems like some have issues reading different size cards.
So to sum it up.... As of now:
1. Transcend 4gig SD card seems the most compatible?
2. Best to format on the PC (FAT32)? Or can the R-9 format reliably?
3. Any recommended reader?
4. Oh yea... what is battery life like? Is it just best to swap them out or is there a good battery pack available?
I hate to beg, but a fast response would be nice as I'd like to order so I can use for a unique situation this weekend that I will probably not see again soon..
Thanks for the input,
Dana
I just leave the card in the recorder all the time, dumping files to the computer and formating ocassionally using USB. The only time I take the card out is to show it to people.
4. Oh yea... what is battery life like? Is it just best to swap them out or is there a good battery pack available?
As for an external power source, IIRC, Sound Professionals listed some device that could provide additional power to the R-09. But I doubt this is needed, since the R-09 already is very efficient in power consumption.
you need to be at level 8Using info from sonicstudios and from hyperplane I found:
1->7 = attenuation
8->30 = gain
level dB abs db abs db dbu Vrms Vpp
0 0 mute mute mute 0 0
1 -30,15 -27,88 0 16 4,887 13,824
2 -29,18 -26,91 0,97 15 4,356 12,320
3 -28,19 -25,92 1,96 14 3,882 10,980
4 -27,27 -25 2,88 13 3,460 9,786
5 -26,29 -24,02 3,86 12 3,084 8,722
6 -25,37 -23,1 4,78 11 2,748 7,774
7 -24,47 -22,2 5,68 10 2,449 6,928
8 -23,49 -21,22 6,66 9 2,183 6,175
9 -22,52 -20,25 7,63 8 1,946 5,503
10 -21,64 -19,37 8,51 7 1,734 4,905
11 -20,67 -18,4 9,48 6 1,546 4,371
12 -19,77 -17,5 10,38 5 1,377 3,896
13 -18,9 -16,63 11,25 4 1,228 3,472
14 -17,92 -15,65 12,23 3 1,094 3,095
15 -16,9 -14,63 13,25 2 0,975 2,758
16 -15,91 -13,64 14,24 1 0,869 2,458
17 -14,87 -12,6 15,28 0 0,775 2,191
18 -13,85 -11,58 16,3 -1 0,690 1,953
19 -12,8 -10,53 17,35 -2 0,615 1,740
20 -11,82 -9,55 18,33 -3 0,548 1,551
21 -10,8 -8,53 19,35 -4 0,489 1,382
22 -9,81 -7,54 20,34 -5 0,436 1,232
23 -8,77 -6,5 21,38 -6 0,388 1,098
24 -7,76 -5,49 22,39 -7 0,346 0,979
25 -6,69 -4,42 23,46 -8 0,308 0,872
26 -5,72 -3,45 24,43 -9 0,275 0,777
27 -4,69 -2,42 25,46 -10 0,245 0,693
28 -3,71 -1,44 26,44 -11 0,218 0,617
29 -2,78 -0,51 27,37 -12 0,195 0,550
30 -2,27 0 27,88 -13 0,173 0,490
you need to be at level 8
1->7 = attenuation
8->30 = gain
Hmm. The listing with the values is not very readable. How can I improve this?
Quote
you need to be at level 8
1->7 = attenuation
8->30 = gain
Relative to what? 0 is no level. 30 is max. Everything in between is gain.....
Paul
Paul
post a screencap from a spreadsheet, or text editor with fixed font width.(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2781/r09ri7.png)
I have read every post in this thread, but I am also not an engineer.
By the chart (not experience and performance), why are the numbers the best at the recording level of 8? Not questioning, just trying to learn.
Thanks!
i'd like to understand this better as well. why is it best to run the R09 at a gain of 8? i would think that whatever setting gets me the desired levels would be optimal. is running above or below 8 going to negatively impact the dynamics of my recording?I have read every post in this thread, but I am also not an engineer.
By the chart (not experience and performance), why are the numbers the best at the recording level of 8? Not questioning, just trying to learn.
Thanks!
i'd like to understand this better as well. why is it best to run the R09 at a gain of 8? i would think that whatever setting gets me the desired levels would be optimal. is running above or below 8 going to negatively impact the dynamics of my recording?
Ok... hopefully this is not a dumb question. With past recorders I've used my DSM6SMs into a PA-3SX preamp into the recorder. Then I always use the pre to control the gain and just use the recorder to record without upping the gain. However, with the R9 if I set gain at 0 it acts like the signal is muted. I'm guessing I just need to set the R9 at 1 and all will be OK. Anyone know the DB added for each step on the gain control? I could be wrong but it does not seem to be 1:1.
The only 2 complaints so far are the battery door and the bright red recording light around the record button. I may need to take a sharpie to it before I have to stealth for the first time. Other than that this seems like a great unit.
To understand this better, you are going through 2 gain stages, your pre has gain, and then the gain of the R-09. If you are using an external pre with cleaner gain than the R-09, setting the R-09 fairly low would be the best, even a little below 8 if the pre remains clean even with the gain cranked up. But many pre's self noise get much more noisy when cranked up, thats why you don't want to attenuate much on the R-09.
Each pre is different, So the best measure would be to record sample files of the self noise of your pre+R-09 at different settings with equal level and compare. The trick to setting equal level is to record a reference signal like a tone at 1khz and then set the combined gain so meter on the R-09 is -6db. For example, pre=high, R-09=4. Then do pre= medium, R-09=8, and pre=low, R-09=20, etc. That is what I did in this thread http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=69131.0 and then guysonic did it with the pre he sells. You might be surprised to find that using only the pre in the R-09 by itself is as good or better (self noise wise) as compared to your external pre noise added to the R-09 line in noise. That is if your mics output a high enough level like my AT-853 to be used with the mic-in low gain switch setting which is just as clean as the line-in. The mic-high gain setting gets noisy quickly.
As discussed early in this thread, unity gain is a relative thing since 0 db is a different voltage level on different devices, different op-amps, impedances, etc. Mainly what you want is a low setting on the R-09 where you have some headroom to adjust your gain comfortably with the controls on your pre (if it has a gain knob). Each change of the R-09 setting when between 4-15 makes little difference in the self noise.
Well it depends on whether you like your pre-amp or in this case the R09's pre-amp. Most people like their own pre-amp better then the internal R09 one. So assuming 8 is unity, you set the R09 at 8 so your not using (or using very little) of the R09 pre-amp. I have my R09 set at 8 and then control the levels using my Sax.
Well it depends on whether you like your pre-amp or in this case the R09's pre-amp. Most people like their own pre-amp better then the internal R09 one. So assuming 8 is unity, you set the R09 at 8 so your not using (or using very little) of the R09 pre-amp. I have my R09 set at 8 and then control the levels using my Sax.now that makes sense. thanks rick. in my case, i am using a fixed gain pre (Nbox) so i have to rely on the R09 to set levels, whether it be around 8 or not.
-I'm getting occasional drop-outs during playbackWhich are not in the recording?
The bright clip light on the r09 is PERFECT for remote fiber optic clip monitoring.Who has the fiber adapter for sale and accepts paypal? ;D
BTW: how can we contact Roland to ask them for features like the peak-hold?
-I'm getting occasional drop-outs during playbackWhich are not in the recording?
I.e.: when you play the file on your PC/Mac/etc all is fine?
The bright clip light on the r09 is PERFECT for remote fiber optic clip monitoring.
The bright clip light on the r09 is PERFECT for remote fiber optic clip monitoring.Who has the fiber adapter for sale and accepts paypal? ;D
BTW: how can we contact Roland to ask them for features like the peak-hold?
[Chris also said they are already working on the next R-0?.............Hopefully they can shrink the R-09 down to the size of a jelly bean and of course add a digital in.....I'll buy two of them...
-I'm getting occasional drop-outs during playbackWhich are not in the recording?
I.e.: when you play the file on your PC/Mac/etc all is fine?
That is just a header issue. Your 2:15 file is over 2gb.So 2GB files always have a 'bad' header?
That is just a header issue. Your 2:15 file is over 2gb.So 2GB files always have a 'bad' header?
Or is it just the program on the PC/Mac complaining if it does not support >2GB WAVs while the header is OK?
That is just a header issue. Your 2:15 file is over 2gb.So 2GB files always have a 'bad' header?
Or is it just the program on the PC/Mac complaining if it does not support >2GB WAVs while the header is OK?
That is just a header issue. Your 2:15 file is over 2gb.So 2GB files always have a 'bad' header?
Or is it just the program on the PC/Mac complaining if it does not support >2GB WAVs while the header is OK?
No that is not the case.
I think the problem is that the R-09 is not *reliably* writing headers wav files that are recorded after a file has already been recorded and stored on the same 4GB card. Maybe this is just a firmware issue since the current firmware technically dosen't support 4GB cards.
I was able to run at the input level of 8 for Sheryl Crow, but had to run at 5 for John Mayer... what did I loose by having to force the unit to use the onboard Pre-Amp? At 8 I was hitting the peak light.
It's even more significant that the R09 would support NTFS! (NTFS requires more resources to handle due to the complexity (relative to FAT32))Also, I formatted to NTFS and haven't reformatted to FAT32 to see if
I myself am completely baffled why anyone would format the card to NTFS.
i'm not too familiar with the VMS02ib that you use. is that fixed or adjustable gain? running lower than 8 is just asking you to use the R09 pre to attenuate the signal. if you are at fixed gain w/ your VMS, then you have to rely on the R09 pre to help you out so that you dont peak. i taped on friday and started out at 8 but had to adjust soon after to raise/lower (cant remember now) levels but really had no other choice. i was running my Nbox into the R09. hope that helps.
Well kind of off topic...
Say, has anyone who purchased the Transcend 4GB SD cards from newegg.com gotten their mail-in rebate yet?
Well kind of off topic...
Say, has anyone who purchased the Transcend 4GB SD cards from newegg.com gotten their mail-in rebate yet?
No but I got an e-mail saying it was going to be mailed shortly. Along with a page where I could check the status
Well kind of off topic...
Say, has anyone who purchased the Transcend 4GB SD cards from newegg.com gotten their mail-in rebate yet?
No but I got an e-mail saying it was going to be mailed shortly. Along with a page where I could check the status
Got my rebate back this week.
Can somebody here please explain the 'level 8 is unity' thing?
The R09 level scale has about 30dB in gain range.
The ADC of the codec chip has about 0.77 Vrms for 0dBFS.
The info at http://www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm#inputs mentions -13 to +16 dBv for line in.
On that scale 0.77 Vrms is at level 17.
Level 8 gives 2.2 Vrms.
So I am a bit confused.
Just do a search. It is in this thread or the prior one R-09 announcement thread.Perfect because of lowest noise?
I clearly remember someone posting the results that "level 8" is the perfect level as previously mentioned.
It doesn't matter much since the R-09 is low noise on any setting except from 25-30 where it gets more noise. And you are always going through the R-09 pre even when you use an external pre. So if your pre is quieter than the R-09 pre, you want to do more gain with it and set the R-09 as needed to get around -6db. The thing to avoid is that many pre's will get exponentially more noisy as they approach the highest gain settings. Thats why you wouldnt want a setting of <8 usually because then you are attenuating and cranking the external pre up to high. In many cases using the R-09 pre mic-low gain setting alone will be less noise than the combined noise of your external pre plus the R-09 pre set on line-in. Testing the self noise at different settings of pre vs R-09 is the only way to tell.I do not use an external pre. I.e.: no pre at all except the recorder.
Just do a search. It is in this thread or the prior one R-09 announcement thread.Perfect because of lowest noise?
I clearly remember someone posting the results that "level 8" is the perfect level as previously mentioned.
I can search but not always find. More unity theories are welcome.
Just do a search. It is in this thread or the prior one R-09 announcement thread.Perfect because of lowest noise?
I clearly remember someone posting the results that "level 8" is the perfect level as previously mentioned.
I can search but not always find. More unity theories are welcome.
Look through this thread. It has been discussed in great detail already.
Thanks for looking stuff up (even one is my own post), but they are just statements and no explanation.
Explanation is what I am after. I want to understand why and how.
Found that. Not sure what you are trying to understand honestly.Why level 8 is said to be unity gain.
Found that. Not sure what you are trying to understand honestly.Why level 8 is said to be unity gain.
Read my initial/orginial `question`.
The ADC needs 0.77 Vrms to get to 0dBFS if I recall correctly.
Level 8 does need more signal to reach 0dBFS.
A lower level on the R09 gives 0dBFS at 0.77 Vrms.
Unity gain just means the R-09's preamp isn't adding anything to the signal. I don't think it has to do with reaching 0dBFS.Sure.
If I would give 0.77 Vrms to the deck and it would be at unit gain I would see 0dBFS at the ADC chip.
0dBFS is my only, simple, method to check what is going on.
So by these measurements it would seem there is no 'unity' on the r09 at all and that line-in trim 1 adds at least 3dB.Thanks for digging into this. Your findings add more info to what is known about the gain structure.
The big question in my mind is which SOUNDS better when running an external pre, trim 1 or trim 8.That is the next interesting question, indeed.
<snip>
15 +16.2 (meter mark just below clip)
16 +17.2
17 +18.2
18 +19.3 (clip light on)
* as measured in wav file vs 722 at 0db gain
Freelunch, when the sine wave started to approach clipping in the R-09, did it start to distort?
Freelunch, when the sine wave started to approach clipping in the R-09, did it start to distort?
It looked pretty good right up until clipping.
Got my rebate on saturday. $30.. In a couple weeks that may be enough for another 4GB card ;)
I use some plastic from garbage can bags. Blackish yet slightly transparant. Two layers.
I use simple transparent adhesive tape (sellotape or whatever), vertically (i.e.: along the sides).I use some plastic from garbage can bags. Blackish yet slightly transparant. Two layers.
Cool, I happen to have that kind too! How did you affix it to the deck?
Man, the battery door on this thing SUCKS. I wouldn't want to have to do this in the dark while stealthing, that's for sure. And I'm definitely glad I got the 4GB card so that I don't have to change that.
Other than that, pretty sweet. I'm thinking about getting some black construction paper and scotch taping it over the record button for each show. Should be flimsy enough to still operate and remove without residue after the show, yet opaque enough to be effective. Anyone else come up with a better idea?
Man, the battery door on this thing SUCKS. I wouldn't want to have to do this in the dark while stealthing, that's for sure. And I'm definitely glad I got the 4GB card so that I don't have to change that.
Other than that, pretty sweet. I'm thinking about getting some black construction paper and scotch taping it over the record button for each show. Should be flimsy enough to still operate and remove without residue after the show, yet opaque enough to be effective. Anyone else come up with a better idea?
Practice a bit. honestly, in about 3 minutes of practice I found it not a big deal. Would I prefer a different opening, yes. But I actually like that all the ports are covered so they stay clean etc.
You can add me to the list of ppl wanting to do something to cover up the red "recording light"