Topic: Stay with CMC-8 and SP-SB-3 _OR_ move to CA-11/STC-9000?

[adrianf74]

5th row and 8'...you might be too close.  If the stacks are overhead, the best sound might be going over your head.  Most times I like to be 12-20 rows back.

And I don't concern myself with degree placement with these mics, given they're used mostly in 007 conditions...just point 'em at the stacks.

Bass stacks were directly ahead of me for that show; the recording turned out clear (great separation and clarity) but just a bit boomy - bus as mentioned, the bass was mixed higher than normal for this show for whatever reason. 

I placed them upwards to try and avoid the screaming girls that were to be expected where I was.  I still had one, however, she's pretty faint on the recording.

[nameloc01]

My thoughts on a pre-amp:

You only need one if your signal is too weak coming in and needs to be increased. All they do is boost the gain. While some people will swear with their life they "improve" the sound, uhhh.. again, all they do is boost gain. Most recordings sound "better" with more gain, but this can be added later. The primary function is for weak signals coming in. If you do mostly loud shows, its pretty much not needed..if you do moderate to soft shows it would be beneficial.

[Church-Audio]

My thoughts on a pre-amp:

You only need one if your signal is too weak coming in and needs to be increased. All they do is boost the gain. While some people will swear with their life they "improve" the sound, uhhh.. again, all they do is boost gain. Most recordings sound "better" with more gain, but this can be added later. The primary function is for weak signals coming in. If you do mostly loud shows, its pretty much not needed..if you do moderate to soft shows it would be beneficial.

If all preamps did was "boost gain" then old Neve preamps would not be selling for $3k per channel I strongly disagree that all preamps do is boost levels.. LOL why are there so many guys here using Grace or Neve or other high end preamps.. They could save all there money and just buy ART preamps lol for $50.00 wow think of the savings then they could all afford really high end mics! 


Uhhhh adding gain later when you have poor signal to noise ratio only increases your noise floor Uhhhhh not something you really want to do if you can avoid it. And Uhhhh when do you know you need a preamp when your at the gig and Uhhhh dam I dont have a preamp. Shit I wish I had a preamp oh well... That thinking is actually backwards... Do you need a preamp for all situations?? NO but when do you know when you will need one and when you wont unless you have already been to the gig with your gear and traveled back in time so you could leave it out of your gear bag?. I am not just saying this because I make preamps... I am saying this because its fact. If we applied your logic we to microphones we could all leave our mics at home and just use the built in mics in our recorders.. after all you can always fix it later right?



Chris

[nameloc01]

So on that thought... You "in theory" should be able to play a recording through a "loop" of preamps and increase the sound quality indefinitely..better and better...and better...and better...and better to a point that words cannot describe.

Doesn't make much sense.

As soon as someone can produce concrete evidence that preamps magically increase a recordings "quality" I will retract that statement...but as far as I know..no ones been able to yet.

[nameloc01]

Not only will I retract that statement.. I will send the person (who produces evidence) a six-pack of Clevelands best microbrew.
Game on ladies.

[Church-Audio]

So on that thought... You "in theory" should be able to play a recording through a "loop" of preamps and increase the sound quality indefinitely..better and better...and better...and better...and better to a point that words cannot describe.

Doesn't make much sense.

As soon as someone can produce concrete evidence that preamps magically increase a recordings "quality" I will retract that statement...but as far as I know..no ones been able to yet.

In theory you would know something about signal to noise ratio but UHHHH you dont.. So UHHH adding many more preamps does not help but adding one UHHHH that has a noise floor of UHHHH -109 db at +20 db of gain Uhhhhh makes your recordings more Uhhhh quiet uhhhh.
Jesus is that so hard to UHHHH understand? 
You are using Md recorders they have pretty good signal to noise ratio to begin with but if you have an r-09 and you run my preamp in front of it all of a sudden your signal to noise ratio improves and you have less noise in your recordings with more gain.. Plain and simple no complex pie charts or graphs needed..

[nameloc01]

Let's not get sassy...

So it helps in SOME situations?
Or it helps in EVERY situation?

Produce evidence. Without it, any comments on it "improving sound" is just heresay. Nothing personal.

That six-pack isn't going to last too long in my fridge.

[Church-Audio]

Let's not get sassy...

So it helps in SOME situations?
Or it helps in EVERY situation?

Produce evidence. Without it, any comments on it "improving sound" is just heresay. Nothing personal.

That six-pack isn't going to last too long in my fridge.

I am going to say this.. Having a recording with less hiss in it is a sonic improvement.. Having a recording go through a good preamp is also an improvement if it was not why would so many people waste there money on high end preamp are they all stupid or are you the only smart one? My vote is everyone is smart and your well? Prove me wrong. I am not in the business of proving your theory, my theory is based on 20 years as a sound engineer and what I hear with my ears ( witch by the way is alot easyer to hear then the difference in speaker cables )

What are you basing your theory on? If we all liked recordings with hiss in them then we would never have purchased recorders with low noise floors in the first place and I never would have sold over 2,300+ CA-9100 preamps world wide.. Are they all wrong? are my preamps snake oil? lol please. I think the heart of the matter is you dont personally like me so your attacking my business but your going about it all wrong. You should base your attack on actual facts. And you should lump in all the other guys that sell preamps too! because obviously were all wrong and we should not be selling preamps, Right? Do you not think it would be easier for me to corner the market on battery boxes? then to build complicated preamps? If I believed that preamps were not necessary I would sell only battery boxes. But I dont believe that to be true or I would not have gotten into the preamp business. But I would love to hear what your theory is based on please enlighten me.

[nameloc01]

Funny...although not really. Still after the wager of a good six-pack no evidence surfaces. I never said I was an expert, I DID ask anyone to produce evidence.
Simple.
And FYI, I was not referencing your gear specifically, yet you seem to get immediately defensive? Although not surprising considering you make money off of people buying them, I do not. Talk about motives. Hmmm.

Nor did I say everyone that uses a preamp is stupid,that was a nice attempt.
The fact is, the statement that a preamp IMPROVES THE SOUND remains unproven. Although maybe I shouldn't say that too loud eh??

Well, since apparently no one can disagree with certain other people here, I think I am gonna go finish baking my brownies (not that kind) and modify my 3 wire mics to run on 2 wire since that's the way AT intended them to be ran.

Weak.

[Church-Audio]

Funny...although not really. Still after the wager of a good six-pack no evidence surfaces. I never said I was an expert, I DID ask anyone to produce evidence.
Simple.
And FYI, I was not referencing your gear specifically, yet you seem to get immediately defensive? Although not surprising considering you make money off of people buying them, I do not. Talk about motives. Hmmm.

Nor did I say everyone that uses a preamp is stupid,that was a nice attempt.
The fact is, the statement that a preamp IMPROVES THE SOUND remains unproven. Although maybe I shouldn't say that too loud eh??

Well, since apparently no one can disagree with certain other people here, I think I am gonna go finish baking my brownies (not that kind) and modify my 3 wire mics to run on 2 wire since that's the way AT intended them to be ran.

Weak.

Weak is your argument. I would however like to try your brownes. But only if you can cook better then you can make an argument.  I am not saying that in every situation a preamp is the way to go because that stupid. I am saying that in some situations its better to have a quiet external preamp with very little self noise and a wide flat frequency response. Does it make your recordings sound better? I seem to have no shortage of people that swear my preamp does. I dont have to sell people on the fact that its going to turn all of there recordings into gold. I simply have to make a good preamp with very little self noise and a wide flat frequency response. I did that and that is the main reason why they sell as well as they do. Now I have stated my reasons for why having a preamp on hand is a good thing please explain to me why it is not.

[nameloc01]

When did I say it wasn't?
 All I stated, as others here have, as that there is no evidence that they (pre's in general) improve the sound quality.
I think I did state, that in a situation where you are getting a weak signal in, they would be a benefit...why wouldn't they?
But it seems that the general idea is that they IMPROVE your shit in every situation. This is what I argue...apparently you missed that.
I'm not quite sure how my statements turned into a personal attack on Chris Church?? Maybe you could tell me?

I'm not in the position to have to prove anything,and that's by design.
Unfortunately, you as a manufacturer of products are..when asked ( that's if I was talking to you to begin with, which I wasn't)
I quite aware of the preamps on the MDs,that's one of the two reasons I use them.
You seem to get immediately too defensive against any opposing opinions,which will now cost you a quite fudgy thick slice of brownie.
Obviously, I have no insight as to your business,but to answer your question as to why you've sold "X" amounts of units...my guess would be the price.
So,basically..I guess my ultimate question to you is ..if taper "X" is recording shows has adequate signal coming in time after time, and levels are always fine..do you suggest a preamp ?
If so..why?
(And can that be proven?)

Or is the preamp ESSENTIALLY to boost the gain on a weak signal?

And you removed any chances of that "Great Lakes" 6 pack.

[Liquid Drum]

Come on ladies!! lol

 

I don't know shit really but I do know that once I started using a pre-amp, my recordings were so much better once amplified in post. None of that hissing crap.

To the original poster: I seriously suggest you use a LOW setting for roll-off. Especially for rock shows. I always use 69hz with my battery box and the 80hz with my pre-amp. Don't go above 100hz. I've never had a recording that came out bad (or with lack of bass) by using a low setting roll-off.

I mean you could try fix in post but sometimes it doesn't work too well and it can be hard to rid of the muddiness. If you were taping softer music don't use any roll-off but I do suggest using a low setting for any rock/metal shows.

Thats my opinion anyway.

[Church-Audio]

When did I say it wasn't?
 All I stated, as others here have, as that there is no evidence that they (pre's in general) improve the sound quality.
I think I did state, that in a situation where you are getting a weak signal in, they would be a benefit...why wouldn't they?
But it seems that the general idea is that they IMPROVE your shit in every situation. This is what I argue...apparently you missed that.
I'm not quite sure how my statements turned into a personal attack on Chris Church?? Maybe you could tell me?

I'm not in the position to have to prove anything,and that's by design.
Unfortunately, you as a manufacturer of products are..when asked ( that's if I was talking to you to begin with, which I wasn't)
I quite aware of the preamps on the MDs,that's one of the two reasons I use them.
You seem to get immediately too defensive against any opposing opinions,which will now cost you a quite fudgy thick slice of brownie.
Obviously, I have no insight as to your business,but to answer your question as to why you've sold "X" amounts of units...my guess would be the price.
So,basically..I guess my ultimate question to you is ..if taper "X" is recording shows has adequate signal coming in time after time, and levels are always fine..do you suggest a preamp ?
If so..why?
(And can that be proven?)

Or is the preamp ESSENTIALLY to boost the gain on a weak signal?

And you removed any chances of that "Great Lakes" 6 pack.

I AM not telling you anything unless I get a Browne. And the 6 pack. That's the deal take it or leave it. I am sorry about getting all uptight it was pretty stupid. I am still 100% correct you will have to live with that but maybe this was not so much a personal attack on me and more so just a way for you to give away substandard beer?  I am not sure, But we all know Canada has the best beer  just like we all know my preamps are good So lets just eat a Browne and move on. 

[nameloc01]

Substandard breweries usually don't have 6 gold medals from Germany on the wall.
And neither of you fuckers (chris or L.D.) are getting any brownies.

We all think we're right I suppose. And I guess we are both right until one of us proves the other wrong, which probably isn't going to happen.

[adrianf74]

Can somebody just answer the damn question, already?

Sheesh!

Chris - FYI: not to take sides or anything, and being a fellow Canuck.. he's offering a good six-pack of brew.  It's possibly one of the few American beers I'd even remotely think of drinking.