Topic: Potential Service Issues with Soundfield - Problem Resolved!

[F0CKER]

A little while back I posted about having problem with my New Soundfiled ST350.  Bought it new in Dec '07 and also got a used 744T so I could run the unit B Format.  I used the two in unison in B Format without any issues about a dozen times, no problems at all.  About 3 months ago, I had an issue where the signal going into the 744 seemed to lock up somewhere between the 45 minute - 1:30 mark.  All I saw on the 744T was constant metering locked in, and all I hear is a low level hum in the audio file.  It does not happen every time, but I'd say 65% is a fair estimate.  I have about 10 botched recordigns becasue of this.

I sent the 744 to SD thinking it was a problem with the deck, they tested it thoroughly and came back saying it was not a problem and sent the unit back to me.  During that time I had a chance to run the SoundField stereo out into a borrowed 722.  Same problem, about 45 minutes into a recording, the meters locked up and all I have is a low level hum.  So now I'm convinced it's an issue with the ST350

I sent the ST350 back to Soundfield where the engineer told me because it was such a unique problem he wanted to look at it personally but he was going out of the country for 2 weeks and will make it a priority when he gets back.  He got back last Tuesday and I sent a follow up email on Wed to check in and communicate my timeframe to have the unit back.  Keep in mind they've had the unit for 3 weeks and it's finally getting looked at.  I emailed again to follow up, no response.  I email again last night to follow up and got this response (now 4 weeks in)
 
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you…
 
We have been checking over your ST350 thoroughly and have not managed to find anything wrong. We have also been testing it with our 744T (both on batteries and mains) and it keeps on running/recording perfectly.
 
The only difference in our setup I can think of are the battery system/batteries you use, maybe the power is somehow glitching which is freezing the recorder.
 
Apologies for not being more conclusive… I presume the best thing to do is for us to send the ST350 back to you.
 
Thanks,
 
xxxxxxx

For the record, I've been using the battery supply built by Soundfield (Sorry Nick's Picks, I ended up breaking down and buying their's because it was more compact).  So it cannot be a powering issue.  It's the power supply they make.

So now both SD and Soundfield are telling me it's not their unit and their testing worked fine, but I know from field use the 350 failed multiple times, at least 6-7 times, and on my deck and another deck.  Meanwhile, I borrowed a friends AKG's to run with my 744 and everything worked fine so I can assume it's not my deck.   So to sum up.  The St350 failed with both a 744 and a 722.  And The 744 worked perfectly outside of the ST350.  So I'm 100% sure the ST350 is the issue.  And they're saying it's not.

What would you recommend me doing?  I'm feeling like I'm in a unique spot because neither side can replicate my issue, though I can provide samples to evidence it happening.  Should I just request a new unit from Soundfield?  What is the correct protocol.  My gut feel from Soundfield tells me they aren't going to replace something they can't replicate, and I can't seem to replicate this issue anywhere but in the field.  I feel I have a unrelaible product I paid $7k for.  What is the best next move?

[F0CKER]

Also, FWIW this was my response back to SF after the email above...

Can you tell me how long you ran the 350?  My failures happened at anywhere between 45 minutes to 1hour 30 minutes.  I'm a little concerned at this point because it's failed multiple times on both my 744 and different 722 using stereo out and B Format out so it isn't specific to my machine only.  I use the Soundfield battery systems provided by you, so there shouldn't be any difference in power supplies.  I included my battery harness to test it against.  I'm at a loss here because it isn't a one time issue.  I can send samples of where the unit failed if you like.  I'm not comfortable that problem has been solved as neither yourselves nor Sound Devices has been able to replicate the issue, but it's happened to me at least 6-8 times. 

Also, what settings did you use on the 744A?  What file split size, what bit depth and sample rates?  What firmware on the 744T were you using? etc...ANy info would be helpful.  I'd appreciate a response back today please so I can plan accordingly if this isn't going to be resolved. 


Please advise, I'm not sure how to proceed.  I'm certainly not comfortable right now. 

I don't feel sending it back is the answer, but if you feel sending it back to me is the answer and it fails again, what would you recommend is the answer?  For what it's worth I ran my 744 with a different set of mics severaltimes with no issues, so the problem lies with the ST350.  Understand my frustration.  I spent $7,000 on a mic that is not reliable.  I trust I have Soundfield's backing that if it fails again, they will supply a replacement unit for me to test.

[illconditioned]

Sorry to hear your problems.  Nothing like getting (expensive) gear that does not work.  Been there, done that.

How to deal with it?  Well, what I did was make sure I have another rig to use in the meantime.  Can you do that?  Borrow something.  Take the stress off.  That was easy because I've got so much gear.  Not sure about you.

Now to your problem.  You haven't tested the Soundfield power supply have you?  If you sent just the mic, perhaps this is the problem.  Is it a battery or mains power supply?  Maybe tell them to hold onto your mic, send your power supply in, and ask them to record until it is out of juice.

  Richard

[datbrad]

Did you send them your preamp and battery supply, or just the mic and they used their own stuff?

If you sent them everything for the ST350, including the battery they made, then I would say that you should ask for more extensive testing. Look, the dude was out of country for weeks, then answers your 3rd email in a day with a result of testing that say's "not us".

I say that you have done due dilligence. I have seen the failure happen myself, twice I think. I know you were pissed at that last line about the best thing for them to do is send it back to you. How about a check for 7K buddy?

Call back and ask for the manager of customer service, turn on the charm, and tell him/her you cannot believe a company as reputable and high end as Soundfield would treat a paying customer this way. Explain the steps you took to eliminate the recorder as a factor, and that you are often recording for archival purposes and no band is going to want to accept a 45% chance you will get a complete pull.

Ask for them to test it further, letting it record a loud source for 2 hours straight, recharge the batteries, and do it one more time. Then, you could better accept the "not us" response.

[F0CKER]

Sorry to hear your problems.  Nothing like getting (expensive) gear that does not work.  Been there, done that.

How to deal with it?  Well, what I did was make sure I have another rig to use in the meantime.  Can you do that?  Borrow something.  Take the stress off.  That was easy because I've got so much gear.  Not sure about you.

Now to your problem.  You haven't tested the Soundfield power supply have you?  If you sent just the mic, perhaps this is the problem.  Is it a battery or mains power supply?  Maybe tell them to hold onto your mic, send your power supply in, and ask them to record until it is out of juice.

  Richard

Nope, I sent them the power supply too, everything exactly as I used it in the field was sent to them, all Soundfield Factory gear. Minus my 744 and my mic stand.

[F0CKER]

Did you send them your preamp and battery supply, or just the mic and they used their own stuff?

If you sent them everything for the ST350, including the battery they made, then I would say that you should ask for more extensive testing. Look, the dude was out of country for weeks, then answers your 3rd email in a day with a result of testing that say's "not us".

I say that you have done due dilligence. I have seen the failure happen myself, twice I think. I know you were pissed at that last line about the best thing for them to do is send it back to you. How about a check for 7K buddy?

Call back and ask for the manager of customer service, turn on the charm, and tell him/her you cannot believe a company as reputable and high end as Soundfield would treat a paying customer this way. Explain the steps you took to eliminate the recorder as a factor, and that you are often recording for archival purposes and no band is going to want to accept a 45% chance you will get a complete pull.

Ask for them to test it further, letting it record a loud source for 2 hours straight, recharge the batteries, and do it one more time. Then, you could better accept the "not us" response.

I think talking to mgmt is my next step..I have the service manager right now.   If he says no to my email, then I'll go up the ladder.  They had to wait for a 744 to test my mic but that's about it.  I sernt them everything, mic, preamp, battery harness (but not the actual batteries - they're the LiOn you would use in a 7xx series box.  I'm sort of prepping myself for when they come back and say they won't replace it until they can replicate the failure.  But the way I see it, it seems like the testing done was limited becausse I had to follow up three times for a response and all they said was we couldn;t replicate it.  I don't know any of the settings or stresses they put the unit under to test.

[Brian Skalinder]

Regardless of the next course of action you decide to take, I recommend doing it by phone, not email.  Email's are easy to shrug off, don't feel personal, etc.  IME, in difficult customer service situations, phone is the only way to go (well, in person's better, but it's rare we have an opportunity to do so).  Take good notes, and then, after speaking by phone, send an email summarizing the discussion.

[rustoleum]

I think you did the right thing by asking such detailed questions on how they reproduced it... had a similar problem with m-audio regarding MTII tests.  The dude kept telling me he couldn't reproduce a problem.  I finally asked him exactly how long he ran a test, what size CF card he was using, etc, and it came out that he wasn't reproducing the scenario the way I had asked him to.  When he finally did a test similar to what I was doing it was impossible not to see the problem and they owned up to it.

[F0CKER]

Regardless of the next course of action you decide to take, I recommend doing it by phone, not email.  Email's are easy to shrug off, don't feel personal, etc.  IME, in difficult customer service situations, phone is the only way to go (well, in person's better, but it's rare we have an opportunity to do so).  Take good notes, and then, after speaking by phone, send an email summarizing the discussion.

I engaged the US retailer who sold me the unit who I became friendly with.  He represents the entire US market and we spoke in great detail about the issue.  I forwarded him the email chain and expressed my concerns.  Hopefully he can act as a buffer and mediate the situation if it gets difficult...or act as an ally.

The primary issue I have is Soundfield failing to offer alternatives for solution.  The brief "we couldn't find a problem, let us send it back to you" is a little upsetting.  Boy Soundfield, you really go the extra mile for your customer don't you?  You wait 3 weeks to test it, then test for a day or two (actually I have no idea how involved your testing was you never told me!) and say sorry, we'll send it back to you.  sheesh.

[Kindguy]

The primary issue I have is Soundfield failing to offer alternatives for solution.  The brief "we couldn't find a problem, let us send it back to you" is a little upsetting.  Boy Soundfield, you really go the extra mile for your customer don't you?  You wait 3 weeks to test it, then test for a day or two (actually I have no idea how involved your testing was you never told me!) and say sorry, we'll send it back to you.  sheesh.

Exactly. Pretty weak. You need a replacement.

[F.O.Bean]

I would DEMAND they replicate your tests exactly, and go from there. I would say "I dont want it back unless you can replicate my issues without a botched recording"

[F0CKER]

I would DEMAND they replicate your tests exactly, and go from there. I would say "I dont want it back unless you can replicate my issues without a botched recording"

I'll take that route Bean I just can't seem to get more than one or two sentence replies from them.  Absolutely no detail at all.  To differentiate, Nick at Sound Devices was in constant communication, thorough and trying very hard to find a workable solution.  I couldn't have asked for better service.  In some ways I wish it was an issue with the 744, at least then I'd have confidence they'd work to satisfy me. 

Soundfield, I've lost a lot of faith in your company.  I hope this comes to an agreeable end.  I'd hate to think I spent all that money to get a faulty product, one which they won't fully back..especially considering it's only 5 months old.  I might be jumping too far ahead, but they've given me no assurances they intend to rectify this situation.

Anyone want to buy a used Soundfield?  I might be back to schoeps before long.

[Tim]

Regardless of the next course of action you decide to take, I recommend doing it by phone, not email.  Email's are easy to shrug off, don't feel personal, etc.  IME, in difficult customer service situations, phone is the only way to go (well, in person's better, but it's rare we have an opportunity to do so).  Take good notes, and then, after speaking by phone, send an email summarizing the discussion.

The one advantage to email is that everything is clearly documented. That would be my only caution against this advice. It's your call but there are pros/cons to phone and email. I'd be most concerned with having everything accurately documented. This is a high dollar item and if things go south you don't want it to turn into a "he said, he said" situation. You want dates, times and every word exactly as they wrote it. That's the legal training in me coming through, not saying it will come to anything that extreme but you want to cover yourself and be able to hold them accountable.

[bugg100]

Sorry to ask, but now is the time to.....

Did you send the cabling between the mic and pre and from the pre to recorder?

From the pre to recorder would be easy enought swap, but probably a proprietary cable to the mic, right?  Did that one go to Soundfield, if so it should get run the same way you run it(bag,etc).

Good luck,
Joe

[F0CKER]

Sorry to ask, but now is the time to.....

Did you send the cabling between the mic and pre and from the pre to recorder?

From the pre to recorder would be easy enought swap, but probably a proprietary cable to the mic, right?  Did that one go to Soundfield, if so it should get run the same way you run it(bag,etc).

Good luck,
Joe

I sent them the whole rig as I would've used it in the field, minus the 744.  Yep, all the cables, everything, mic cable, B format breakout to 744 cable, cable for the power supply, the harness for the battery....everything minus the LiON batteries used, but they're pretty much standard and I used two different ones they sent to me.  The actualy batteries shouldn't be the issue..but who knows, maybe they are.  I can follow up on that point.