Topic: Update: Completed my first rig! (Was: BSC1's > FR2LE... what else do I need?)

[Jeremy Lykins]

I move back out to Colorado in August.

If you're moving to Colorado you'll have another taper to patch out of 99.9% of the time, so you might just want to invest all of your money into a recorder and then purchase the rest in the future.  If you want your own rig for under $1000, I just started taping a few months ago and here's what I got for about $900:

Edirol R-09
16gb SDHC memory card
Church Audio CA-11 mics (cards & omni caps) & CA-9000 preamp (mics need to be ordered without the clips in order to fit into the T-bar's windscreens)
rechargeable batteries
Sound Professionals T-bar
ProMaster 9' mic stand
3/8" female to 5/8" male thread adapter
1/4-20 to 3/8" male thread adapter
8' extension cable (for between the mics and preamp--the mic's cable is only 5' long)
6" mini to mini cable (for between the preamp and recorder - could be longer if you want)
Windtech C-clamp (to clamp onto other tapers)
Gaffer's tape (to tape down the legs of the mic stand)
bag (I used a hip sack that I've had for years)

[itsoktodoubt]

FR2LE is a helluva AIO box.  A local taper here in Dallas has one and I think its a kick ass box.  Good sized and lots of features.  He kicked me down some tapes he made with the 390>Fr2LE rig of music that I would never listen to and by god I think its great.  Sounds wonderful.  Plus you have the option of getting the box modded if you so choose.

He's referring to me.  Only been taping about 7 months and couldn't be happier with the 390 > FR-2LE setup.  I had the Busman modded Avantone CK-1s previous to the AKG 300s.  I liked them but they didn't have quite the full sound of the 300s.  Keep an eye on the Yard Sale.  I know recently there was a set of 391s for $450.  I picked up my 300 bodies with 91 and 93 caps in the Yard Sale for $500.  For the FR-2LE, look on Ebay.  I got mine, brand new (not refurb, not b-stock) for $400 shipped.

David - Red Monroe and Sarah Jaffe?  That Red Monroe set came out great!

[sygdwm]

this would be a helluva starter rig just under your ceiling:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105717.0.html

[strangetapes]

I think that out of all the suggestions I've seen here
OFOTD has the best idea

if you like the AKG sound you probably won't like Studio projects
with $1200 to spend you should go with the FR2-LE (modded or not)
and with the 391s you will be right in your price range

both have good resale value here in the Yard Sale if you want to change later

good luck with your new hobby

Darby has the right idea, if you have a sound you like already that's a great starting point (and for some a finishing point, I will never part with my km 184's).  Remember, the only rule is, it only has to sound good to you.  If you like it then the gear works.

My suggestion of the busman's was meant as a bang for the buck especially the multiple caps.  Having the multiple caps can help in determining what sounds best in the venues you tape in before spending lots of money on additional caps from a different mfg.  Again however, this won't matter if you don't like the sound of the busman's to begin with!

The T-mod is a transparency mod done by busman on the preamp stage of the recorder.  I have never run one but have listened to a few recordings through modded units.  The mod improves the transparency of the preamp, for a more in depth explanation check out his web site.

Good luck

[itsoktodoubt]

Remember, the only rule is, it only has to sound good to you.  If you like it then the gear works.

QFT!  Your money.  Your gear.  Your tapes.  Your ears.

[olyrc]

This question is kinda like asking a group of crackheads what kind of pipe you should use... except our stuff costs more (although it'd be tough to OD on taping).

[F.O.Bean]

stand. t-bar. shockmounts. silver cables. mics w/ cards AND hypers. modded fr2le. 8 or 16gb cf card. DONE

That can DEF be done for around 1200 or so

[Todd R]

I'd say if you're putting together an open taping rig, you'll probably have to allot $200-250 for all the extra stuff you'll need.  For a stab at low-end pricing (you can obviously go much higher for pretty much everything on the list):

Stand/tbar/necessary adapters:  $50
Rechargeable battery system: $50
Gear bag:  $30-40
mic cables: $25-50
CF card:  $30-50
Shockmounts:  $30-60

You can obviously tape openly with stealth type gear, but if you want to open tape, you'll learn more about that kind of gear if you buy that kind of gear.  Everything from battery systems, stands, t-bar/mic mounts, shockmounts, mic patterns, mic powering (48v phantom vs battery boxes), etc. is different between stealth and open gear.

I don't know much about the FR2LE, but it seems like a nice, low-cost solution providing everything in one-box.  On that point, the difference between the FR2LE and the R-09 (or for that matter the FR2LE, Marantz PMD671/PMD670, and the Tascam HD-P2 and the R-09, Sony D50, etc) is that the full-size FR2LE has XLR mic inputs and will provide 48v phantom power to power full-size condensor mics, the R-09 type recorders cannot do this.  In general, stealth type mics require "plug-in power" of ~3-9v, coming from the 1/8" mic input or from a "battery box".  Full size condensor mics will require 48v phantom power from XLR connectors.  So if you wanted to run full size condensors like the Busman mics or the AKG 390's and went with a R-09 as a recorder, you'd need to add a separate mic preamp (or at least a portable 2ch 48v phantom power box) to your rig.

So for costing purposes, say $500-600 for an all in one recorder like the FR2LE plus the $200 or so for all the extra stuff.  Leaves ~$200-500 for your mics.  Bottom line, I'd say if you want to stay around $700, plan for a stealth type rig, and think about the R-09 + the Church Audio stuff.  For an open rig, plan for around $1000-1200 at a minimum and build it up around an all in one recorder like the FR2LE.

Good luck, and hope to see you out with the CO Crew soon!

[sunjan]

What advantages are there for getting the Fostex over an R-09?

So: Open taping, cardioid mics (omni- caps would also be nice), and a budget that tops out near $1,000.  Also, preferably gear that I wouldn't have too much difficulty finding in the YS.

Basically: if you're running an open rig, there's no need to compromise with relatively small/flimsy recorders like the R-09, when you can get a full feature set and better durability with the FR2LE and similar.

I didn't see any mentions for the 660/670/671? Maybe they are considered to be too expensive/rare to find on the YS these days?

I guess the FR2LE is still better value, since 660/670 are only 16bit, and the 671 cost almost twice compared to FR2LE...

Anyway, there was a 660 ACM out, but it seems to be sold pending payment:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,104331.msg1401088.html#msg1401088

[newplanet7]

I think that out of all the suggestions I've seen here
OFOTD has the best idea

if you like the AKG sound you probably won't like Studio projects
with $1200 to spend you should go with the FR2-LE (modded or not)
and with the 391s you will be right in your price range

both have good resale value here in the Yard Sale if you want to change later

good luck with your new hobby

QFT.
Great job with the suggestions.
I dug the AKG sound and went with those and a busman 660 mod.
Happy as can be.

[Krispy D]

I think that out of all the suggestions I've seen here
OFOTD has the best idea

if you like the AKG sound you probably won't like Studio projects
with $1200 to spend you should go with the FR2-LE (modded or not)
and with the 391s you will be right in your price range

both have good resale value here in the Yard Sale if you want to change later

good luck with your new hobby

QFT.
Great job with the suggestions.
I dug the AKG sound and went with those and a busman 660 mod.
Happy as can be.

That is one of the best 16bit tapes money can buy right there!

[grtphl]

How do y'all feel about the 391s vs. 451s?

So, if I get the AKG 300s & the Fostex FR2LE with the Busman "vintage and transparency" mod, I'd be covered on the mic+preamp+recorder+power front?  Just verifying that the FR2LE mod covers the necessary recorder, preamp, and power components of a rig.

If I plan on getting the two items mentioned, I'd still need a stand, t-bar, shock mounts, cables, a bag, and CF cards?  These I will consult you folk about after I've committed to the aforementioned gear since these 'accessories' often depend on the mic & recorder sizes, yes?  Anything I'm missing?

Also, what is the estimated cost of used 300 bodies? 90-series capsules? and the FR2-LE?

[nem]

I didn't read this whole thread but I did notice in your first post that you were considering Busman mics.

My vote goes that way. I'm a n00b so I'm not familiar with using many sorts of mics or other gear asides from cables and a modded 660 (I pushed the start and stop button on an R4 once though); a few sets of "entry level" makes and 2 or 3 times using some old AT shotguns, have a friend that flies 480's who is considering getting on the bsc Bus and blah blah blah

anyways, you will not regret getting a set of bsc1's. these are a rare exception to the "you get what you pay for" rule because at .00 or however much they cost now you will get well more than your money's worth (not to mention every pattern except for figure8 caps).  just my jubilant opinion. yrmv

[F.O.Bean]

I didn't read this whole thread but I did notice in your first post that you were considering Busman mics.

My vote goes that way. I'm a n00b so I'm not familiar with using many sorts of mics or other gear asides from cables and a modded 660 (I pushed the start and stop button on an R4 once though); a few sets of "entry level" makes and 2 or 3 times using some old AT shotguns, have a friend that flies 480's who is considering getting on the bsc Bus and blah blah blah

anyways, you will not regret getting a set of bsc1's. these are a rare exception to the "you get what you pay for" rule because at .00 or however much they cost now you will get well more than your money's worth (not to mention every pattern except for figure8 caps).  just my jubilant opinion. yrmv

thats also a great option. if he can get 4 sets of capsules(Omnis/Card/Hypers/Subcards) and bodies for 500 or whatever the busman mics cost, id go that route too if I were you and starting out. and youd be able to sell or trade them for 390's really easily IMO! But I think you'll also like them and be happy w/ busman mics>busman modfr2le and yes, you'll still need 7.2v batteries for the fr2l3(that is what it takes right?) and a stand($50-75), tbar($15), shockmounts($25), cables($50copper-$150silver-clad copper), bag($30), and CF Card($50[8GB]-$150[32GB])!

[J.D.S.]

ADK matched TL's($500 yard sale), moded tascam HDP2($700-750 used, + T mod=$850-900). not bad, you could get this under $1500 with batt's and cables. or LSD2>same box. AKG se300's>same box, a number of different mics>same box.

there are more options now than ever before, imo...