Author Topic: Recomend a rig...thinking recorder w/preamp in one & stereo mic (Read 6154 times)

BrianPB · « **on:** February 15, 2009, 08:49:11 PM »

Any suggestions for a friend who thinks he may want to make some recording from time to time?

Would want a deck that could recieve a digital patch also.

Trying to keep it simple for this guy.

Does this meet those qualities?

CA-14 cardioids > CA-9100 preamp > R-09HR

jeromejello · « **Reply #1 on:** February 15, 2009, 09:37:06 PM »

Quote from: BrianPB on February 15, 2009, 08:49:11 PM

Any suggestions for a friend who thinks he may want to make some recording from time to time?

Would want a deck that could recieve a digital patch also.

Trying to keep it simple for this guy.

Does this meet those qualities?

CA-14 cardioids > CA-9100 preamp > R-09HR

nope... r-09hr does not take a digital patch. otherwise it would be fine to start out with.

page · « **Reply #2 on:** February 15, 2009, 09:44:21 PM »

Quote from: jeromejello on February 15, 2009, 09:37:06 PM

Quote from: BrianPB on February 15, 2009, 08:49:11 PM
Any suggestions for a friend who thinks he may want to make some recording from time to time?

Would want a deck that could receive a digital patch also.

nope... r-09hr does not take a digital patch. otherwise it would be fine to start out with.

If he's recording from time to time, does it matter if it's a digital patch? (honest question)

Doesn't sound like it's for distribution if they are casually patching or that they are hardcore like some folks here. I've had people patch out of my FR2-LE and it's not digital so it happens.

BrianPB · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2009, 09:55:45 PM »

Good point. Digi patch may not be that important.

Can you use the CA mics without the CA pre-amp? Use the pre on the deck?

Thanks

su6oxone · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2009, 10:51:52 PM »

Quote from: BrianPB on February 15, 2009, 09:55:45 PM

Good point. Digi patch may not be that important.

Can you use the CA mics without the CA pre-amp? Use the pre on the deck?

Thanks

With the R-09HR you can, but I believe you need to get the '2.7k mod' on the CA-11 mics. I would PM or email Mr Church himself about it when ordering though to get the definitive word.

BrianPB · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2009, 11:45:02 AM »

will do....thanks for the help.

guysonic · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:30:03 AM »

Another simple very high performance combo is with either stock PCM-D50 Sony (that does accept a digital patch) or (my favorite) R-09HR with my company's MOD-4 + DSM-6S/(M,L, or EL) model mic.

See these at, and listen to some samples at: http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=dc5cb19c3eae03a2a98a47d2a8b6b290&topic=83254.0;all

MOD-4 described on this page, but cost is $25 less than noted: www.sonicstudios.com/pa_x.htm#mod4

BrianPB · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:37:33 AM »

I shall check that out thanks.

fmaderjr · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2009, 04:46:20 PM »

guysonic's mics are good mics, but you need to be sure you want omnis if you get them. It takes a lot more skill on the part of the recordist to reduce crowd chatter when using omnis, although a number of members here know how to do so and swear by them.

Especially for someone who is relatively new to the game and may not record extremely often, I would think your original suggestion of CA-14 cardioids > CA-9100 preamp > R-09HR (and giving up the digital patch) would be ideal. Both easier to learn how to use and costs less. Chris' stuff is on sale and I think I may have read that he is offering free shipping the rest of February. I love the ST-9100! I prefer it to the smaller CA-UGLY for stealth because it is small enough for my needs and you don't have to change levels 1 channel at a time with a mini-screwdriver.

OFOTD · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2009, 05:07:49 PM »

GuySonic - Shouldn't you put your products/mods and services in the retail space. You product pitches disguised as help amount to spam in boards other than Retail Space.

Jamos · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2009, 05:21:02 PM »

Quote from: OFOTD on February 22, 2009, 05:07:49 PM

GuySonic - Shouldn't you put your products/mods and services in the retail space. You product pitches disguised as help amount to spam in boards other than Retail Space.

The OP asked for suggestions.
GuySonic provided one.

It's not spam when it's requested info.

What's the problem?

Don't know why people hammer on him so much...he's provided great info time and time again on the products that many people here use...and developed great mods for those products too.

boojum · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2009, 05:28:48 PM »

^^^^^ What he said. For some reason other folks can plug there gear all over the place, and have others do it and it is just fine. When Guy does it it is not. I sure would like to know why there is this double standard.

illconditioned · « **Reply #12 on:** February 22, 2009, 05:41:22 PM »

Quote from: boojum on February 22, 2009, 05:28:48 PM

^^^^^ What he said. For some reason other folks can plug there gear all over the place, and have others do it and it is just fine. When Guy does it it is not. I sure would like to know why there is this double standard.

Chris Church often posts replies, but for the most part, he does not fluff only his gear. The other thing (that gets me) is that Guy's gear is quite expensive. Now, to Guy's credit he does post a lot of valuable info, especially tests of various recorder noise, levels, etc. I don't know the solution, but I could see fluffing your own gear as turning some people off.

Richard

OFOTD · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2009, 05:53:34 PM »

Could it just be that most other vendors DO keep their posts in the Retail Space section.

If someone else was pushing his/her products in the disguise of help it would be the same reaction.

You guys that are quick to defend should check this out: http://taperssection.com/index.php/board,22.0.html

Pretty much the majority of our retailers/customizers/modders are there.

Most of these folks do participate in other boards and threads and rarely if ever when asked advice are pushing their own product unless asked specifically about their products/wares. Guy Sonic has a reputation for pitching his gear (over priced gear at that) in places other then Retail Space so he opens himself up for criticism.

Quote from: illconditioned on February 22, 2009, 05:41:22 PM

Chris Church often posts replies, but for the most part, he does not fluff only his gear.

Chris is a good example of someone who dispenses good advice without always selling you something. In fact i'd guess that he has more helpful non-product pitch posts than he has sales posts. Many others as well. GuySonic not so much.

In GuySonic's post above it appears that he is suggesting a product only with his mod. Seems like a product pitch to me.

guysonic · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2009, 05:42:38 AM »

Quote from: OFOTD on February 22, 2009, 05:07:49 PM

GuySonic - Shouldn't you put your products/mods and services in the retail space. You product pitches disguised as help amount to spam in boards other than Retail Space.

Sorry to have to post referrals myself, but most Sonic Studios mic users are reluctant to post their DSM recording experiences because of constant dissing from some members who seem to always be boosting SP, Church, and other similar products, or just have their on agenda to harass those posting up to 25 years of Sonic Studios product experiences for no good/totally unknown reasons.

So very satisfied DSM mic users have long ago quit sharing on this board, leaving the job to me, and having learned to take the heat, this should not be a problem if done appropriately when members ask for mic suggestions fitting their interests.

jlykos · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:05:57 PM »

Quote from: OFOTD on February 22, 2009, 05:53:34 PM

Guy Sonic has a reputation for pitching his gear (over priced gear at that) in places other then Retail Space so he opens himself up for criticism.

Quote from: illconditioned on February 22, 2009, 05:41:22 PM
Chris Church often posts replies, but for the most part, he does not fluff only his gear.

Chris is a good example of someone who dispenses good advice without always selling you something. In fact i'd guess that he has more helpful non-product pitch posts than he has sales posts. Many others as well. GuySonic not so much.

In GuySonic's post above it appears that he is suggesting a product only with his mod. Seems like a product pitch to me.

This is nuts. First, the concept of "over-priced" is dependent on what a person will pay for it. I have a set of the Sonic Studios DSM-6/L microphones and they are a high-quality piece of equipment. I have used a competitor's product that costs half as much and it delivered about half the quality that the DSM microphones do. So, for my needs, they are not overpriced at all. Also, what is the cost structure of any of these microphones? Do you know about their component and labor costs? The labor costs that go into designing these units? I would think that you need to have a working knowledge of that to determine what is overpriced.

And if you don't see the value in the bench work and testing that Leonard has done with the current crop of portable units, as well as his lengthy list of tips for tapers delivered free of charge to this community and posted on the Internet, then you and I have very different conceptions of the value to the community that he provides.

Or of the concept of value in general.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:22:02 PM »

exactly.
((((buy hydra cables))))

;-)

OFOTD · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:42:18 PM »

Quote from: jlykos on February 23, 2009, 12:05:57 PM

Quote from: OFOTD on February 22, 2009, 05:53:34 PM
Guy Sonic has a reputation for pitching his gear (over priced gear at that) in places other then Retail Space so he opens himself up for criticism.

Quote from: illconditioned on February 22, 2009, 05:41:22 PM
Chris Church often posts replies, but for the most part, he does not fluff only his gear.

Chris is a good example of someone who dispenses good advice without always selling you something. In fact i'd guess that he has more helpful non-product pitch posts than he has sales posts. Many others as well. GuySonic not so much.

In GuySonic's post above it appears that he is suggesting a product only with his mod. Seems like a product pitch to me.

This is nuts. First, the concept of "over-priced" is dependent on what a person will pay for it. I have a set of the Sonic Studios DSM-6/L microphones and they are a high-quality piece of equipment. I have used a competitor's product that costs half as much and it delivered about half the quality that the DSM microphones do. So, for my needs, they are not overpriced at all. Also, what is the cost structure of any of these microphones? Do you know about their component and labor costs? The labor costs that go into designing these units? I would think that you need to have a working knowledge of that to determine what is overpriced.

And if you don't see the value in the bench work and testing that Leonard has done with the current crop of portable units, as well as his lengthy list of tips for tapers delivered free of charge to this community and posted on the Internet, then you and I have very different conceptions of the value to the community that he provides.

Or of the concept of value in general.

Jamie i'm a bit lost here with your post. No one has said ONE word about the quality of the SS mics in particular in this thread unless I missed something. If you assumed that I and others were talking about his mics when the word overpriced is mentioned I can say that was not intended. While we're talking of overpriced please check out the thread with his 'D' cell battery pack for an example.

Overpriced or not wasn't the issue of this thread anyways. The issue is the product pitches disguised as help. I'm all for the man making a living. I'm all for him selling his products whether they are over priced or under priced. My issue is that there is a place on this board for that type of product pitch/advertising. Its called the Retail Space.

Quote from: guysonic on February 23, 2009, 05:42:38 AM

Sorry to have to post referrals myself, but most Sonic Studios mic users are reluctant to post their DSM recording experiences because of constant dissing from some members who seem to always be boosting SP, Church, and other similar products, or just have their on agenda to harass those posting up to 25 years of Sonic Studios product experiences for no good/totally unknown reasons.

Where are people dissing the quality or use of Sonic Studios mics? Where are there examples of people boosting SP, Church and other similar products against Sonic Studio mics? I see people fluffing the Church mics because the guy appears to make a quality product for a fair price and seems to give advice to people based on their needs and budget, not always what he's selling. Big difference.

Quote from: guysonic on February 23, 2009, 05:42:38 AM

So very satisfied DSM mic users have long ago quit sharing on this board, leaving the job to me, and having learned to take the heat, this should not be a problem if done appropriately when members ask for mic suggestions fitting their interests.

Taking heat? I think the only heat you take is when you push your products again in the disguise of help and I think you take heat when you sell a 'D' cell pack for damn near $200.

Church-Audio · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:46:14 PM »

I think there is always a fine line. I personally try hard not to push my gear on other people. It is hard especially during these hard times to keep quiet. I do feel its great to say something like check out my gear in a pm. But I dont often tell people to buy my gear in public posts outside of the retail section.

I let the users of my products do the selling for me. That being said there is a negative connotation towards Guy. I honestly think his dsm is a great sounding mic from the samples I have heard. In the end I think all of us need to respect one another just a bit more around here.

There are things to be learned from everyone not just from vendors but end users as well. Its very hard being in this business we dont have people beating down our door for products.. And actually if someone was to ask me if this business is a good investment I would laugh my ass off.

I dont think any of us in the the business of supplying gear for the recording community to use is getting rich from this. We do this because we love it and because we have a crazy set of skills that allow us to solder 2.5mm capsules and the steady hands needed to build very small things.

I cant speak for all the vendors but with out the support I get here my business would be a failure. I think its important to remember that some of these vendors are sacrificing a lot to supply gear to the community. Its not easy to wait for an email for a potential customer and sometimes we have to get a little aggressive to drum up business. That is the nature of the beast we call mic building.

Chris Church

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2009, 01:12:23 PM »

well said Chris.

(((((HYDRA))))))

BC · « **Reply #20 on:** February 25, 2009, 01:30:08 PM »

Quote from: fmaderjr on February 22, 2009, 04:46:20 PM

guysonic's mics are good mics, but you need to be sure you want omnis if you get them. It takes a lot more skill on the part of the recordist to reduce crowd chatter when using omnis, although a number of members here know how to do so and swear by them.

could you please elaborate on how to reduce unwanted noise when using mini-omni-type mics?

fmaderjr · « **Reply #21 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:37:00 PM »

Arnie99 is one of the experts in this and has it down to a science. Perhaps he can respond or send you a PM.

I find it easier to just use cards or hypers when I think they'll be too much noise behind me that I want minimized.

guysonic · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:21:28 PM »

Long long ago, in a distant Datheads newsgroup many customers/prospects pleaded their case for wanting Sonic Studios to make an excellent cardioid or directional miniature mic product similar to the omni sets.

I resisted going to the 'dark side' of the head mounted/baffled mic array for well known reasons.

1. While Miniature directional mics do help reduce unwanted sounds, they DO NOT have good deep bass ability, or non-hyped natural sounding performance.

2. While most 'clip' these mics very close against head and clothing, these type mics really need a bit more 'air-space' to do their best work.

3. While they 'sometimes' produce a better live venue result, especially where there's already excessive bass, and a lot of competing crowd noise, I've come to believe body-worn directional mics mostly produce inferior quality live recordings over using omni sets.

So with omni, results are lower distortion, more faithful to the live natural venue sound, and consistently produce way more satisfying recordings, at least in my opinion.

If your venue location has too much competing crowd noise, you often have the option of simply moving to a better location, or maybe getting a few 'friends' to surround you on at least 3 sides creating an effective 'vow of silence' buffer zone.

fmaderjr · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2009, 04:36:25 PM »

guysonic-I can't disagree with anything you say, but I've made excellent sounding recordings with headworn CA-14's or AT853 hypers. The 3-4 samples of your DSM mics I've downloaded all sound extremely realistic and natural, but all have too much crowd chatter in the background for my taste. It's all a matter of personal preference, I guess. Unless I'm in an ideal spot to use omnis I tend to prefer recordings made with directional mics to my DPA 4060's

I do thank you for your many excellent posts revealing your results form testing various recorders, etc. and have found them invaluable.

Kyle · « **Reply #24 on:** February 26, 2009, 12:46:29 AM »

Quote from: BrianPB on February 15, 2009, 08:49:11 PM

Any suggestions for a friend who thinks he may want to make some recording from time to time?

Would want a deck that could recieve a digital patch also.

Trying to keep it simple for this guy.

Does this meet those qualities?

CA-14 cardioids > CA-9100 preamp > R-09HR

The Church Audio equipment is good stuff and you should be pleased with it. As always, when choosing a mic it is a good idea to check out the Live Music Archive and listen to many different samples. While there are so many variables in live recording that can alter the way a mic sounds, listening to different samples will give you a general idea of what different mics sound like and at the least point you in a general direction.

As far as a deck goes, the Sony PCM-D50 is small and sounds great and has a SPDIF Optical input. It you must have digital in/out this is probably your best bet in a small package (the Iriver iHP120 has optical in/out, limited to 16bit but overall a great unit). If you can live without the digital patch ability, the Edirol is a great choice. And if you do patch with it, if you patched from my rig for example, your source would be Schoeps 64 > Lunatec V2 or PSP-2 > R-09HR (maybe I should pick one up

). I frequently get analog patchers and their recordings are great. If the analog source is good, the Edirol will produce great results.

If size is not as much of an issue the Tascam HD-P2 is very decent. 24bit, XLR mic in w/ +48, rca analog line in, SPDIF coaxial in/out, word clock input (very nice feature if working with multiple sources and sound for picture).