Topic: Which would you consider more important?

[bluenote2005]

Would you consider the digital reorder or the microphone most important? If you're budget will allow you get the best of one of the two which would you spring for?
I lean toward the MIC. For me digital recording is going to be the same between the various units, but a real good mic can make all the difference in the world.
Any thoughts?

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Microphones...end of discussion. 

[OFOTD]

Microphones...end of discussion. 

Microphones...end of discussion. 

[boojum]

I would also say the mic is the most important of the two choices.  Note that there are differences between digital recorders however.

[Belexes]

Mic, but back in the day the recorder was right up there as a very close second. Not so much anymore with these new fangled digi contraptions.

[J.Maye]

Mics, but on the flip side, if you are using an all-in-1 recorder/pre/ad there is a pretty huge difference between plug in power on a minidisc and running a 722.

[mmadd29]

Microphone, then microphone

[bhtoque]

Importance to sound quality flows right down the signal path, then proceeds in very marginal increments to the sampling rate, bit depth and cables. Of course it continues in the opposite direction coming out of whatever you are playing back on.

JAson

[notlance]

Mics are more important.  In addition, mics don't become obsolete as fast as recorders and mics retain their value better than recorders.  I can think of some mics that will last you your lifetime and your kids will be able to sell them after you die for at least what you paid for them.  I hope I can get 10 years out of a recorder before it is so obsolete that it is worthless.

[rastasean]

Mics are more important.  In addition, mics don't become obsolete as fast as recorders and mics retain their value better than recorders.  I can think of some mics that will last you your lifetime and your kids will be able to sell them after you die for at least what you paid for them.  I hope I can get 10 years out of a recorder before it is so obsolete that it is worthless.

Well said. Microphones can die and become obsolete but not at the rate recorders and pre-amps do.

[612]

I would say mics but I just bought a Sony PCM D-50 because I wanted a 24 bit recorder with a digi-in.

A mic upgrade will have to wait for me.

[Gutbucket]

I thought the choice was going to be between something more difficult like raw sexual attraction vs engaging & intellectually stimulating conversation in a long-term relationship.

Transducers seem to be where the biggest challenges lie and most distortions occur (or where the voodoo happens, depending on your metaphysical persuasions) and so usually deliver the biggest audible return on investment.  Mics, phono-cartridges, headphones & speakers are the direct connections between the physical vibrations we sense as sound and the electrical world of voltages and currents.  Those are also the mechanical parts of the chain and so are more costly to produce than parts which benefit from miniaturization and Moore's Law cost savings.

Following that line of thought, the transformation from the electrical world of voltages and currents to the conceptual world of digital numeric values is another radical transformation. I'd list ADCs and DACs as next in line after physical transducers.  The amplification and digital storage parts are important to get right too, but pose less problems.

[adrianf74]

Microphones...end of discussion. 

What he said.

And others.   

Honestly, digital recorders are (more or less) digital recorders.  Back in the day when we were dealing with Digital Audio Tape, Analog Tape, MiniDisc, the recorder tended to matter A LOT more than the mics.

Nowadays, the mics are far more important.  Bad/cheap mics will sound that way.  Just keep in mind that different scenarios will require different mic pickup patterns so you may be required to pick up different capsules/mics depending on your needs/budget.

[bluenote2005]

Thanks for all the feedback. So microphones win. I would have to believe.

One more question, preamps, the few I looked at seemed to large to conceal. Any good small ones that would work well with a Zoom H2 or H4 and are not to bulky?

[Belexes]

I don't consider the CA-9100 very bulky.  Chris makes the CA-UGLY, which is much smaller, but I have no experience with it.

[su6oxone]

One more question, preamps, the few I looked at seemed to large to conceal. Any good small ones that would work well with a Zoom H2 or H4 and are not to bulky?

I would go for the Church Audio mics, either CA-11 or CA-14, that you can get from one of the members here.  CA-14s have a non-removeable windscreen that you may or may not want but reportedly sound better.  But those would be the cheapest option to buy new, but you can also put out an ISO in the yard sale forum to look for AT853s (modular cap system) or microphone madness mics.  DPA 4060 are another good, stealthy option, but cost a lot more (~$1k).  Either way, you'll probably need a power source as well (a small battery box or a Church Audio 9100 or ugly preamp).  

[setboy]

Microphones...end of discussion. 

Microphones...end of discussion. 

[Gutbucket]

Here's my ranking of things through a slightly wider lens, in order of importance:

1) the Talent (the actual performance)
2) recordist's skill/knowledge/art/wisdom
3) recording location (placement of rig, venue's sound system, physical acoustics, AUD situation)
4) recording gear (mics being the most important part, see note below)
5) post engineering knowledge/art/skill/wisdom (can't polish a turd, but can extract pearls from oysters)

Mics top the 4th category in my list.  They are the most important element of the 'recording gear' category not only because I consider the sound to voltage transducer aspect the most critical part of the gear chain, but primarily because the selection and application of them is an important tool used by 2) above in relation to 3).  For the most part, the recorder isn't.

[SparkE!]

I don't consider the CA-9100 very bulky.  Chris makes the CA-UGLY, which is much smaller, but I have no experience with it.

The Church Audio CA-UGLY amp is not much larger than the 9V battery that powers the thing.  It's similar in design to the CA-9100, I think.

[Gutbucket]

I don't consider the CA-9100 very bulky.  Chris makes the CA-UGLY, which is much smaller, but I have no experience with it.

The Church Audio CA-UGLY amp is not much larger than the 9V battery that powers the thing.  It's similar in design to the CA-9100, I think.

I posted info on the CA-UGLY recently over in the R-09HR thread, more details and a link to a bunch of photos of it are in a follow up post on the next page of that thread.

[StuStu]

I vote for mics as well. However, I give a close 2nd to your pre or battery box. If you can't properly power your mics, well, they'll pretty much be useless. Good luck with your decision.

[easy jim]

Here's my ranking of things through a slightly wider lens, in order of importance:

1) the Talent (the actual performance)
2) recordist's skill/knowledge/art/wisdom
3) recording location (placement of rig, venue's sound system, physical acoustics, AUD situation)
4) recording gear (mics being the most important part, see note below)
5) post engineering knowledge/art/skill/wisdom (can't polish a turd, but can extract pearls from oysters)

Mics top the 4th category in my list.  They are the most important element of the 'recording gear' category not only because I consider the sound to voltage transducer aspect the most critical part of the gear chain, but primarily because the selection and application of them is an important tool used by 2) above in relation to 3).  For the most part, the recorder isn't.

^ well said

[paulbaptiste]

As for the preamp, it matters what mics you are gonna be using.  If i had to buy new right now, i'd get a littlebox from Naiant, with minixlr's pip power, and XLR Phantom, best of both worlds.  And so far from the samples you'd be straight with a Iriver behind that.  And then spend what you want on mics. 

For smaller, stealth and open mics;  I'd vote 853's with a set of subcard caps and omni's, terminated in minixlr.  Then get some 853rx adaptors with minixlr male leads, so you can use them with phantom or without.  My vote.

Cheaper side of "open" mics.  I'd buy a set of Nak 300's and get them chopped (Busman).  And you'd still be able to run them off of PIP power from the little box, and still be able to use your phantom adaptors with leads for phantom power. 

I had this same setup, minus the littlebox, but having 2 seperate recorders for quite awhile and was very happy.

[raymonda]

This wasn't included in your survey but I would say that it is:

1) Mic pre-amp and A to D converter
2) Mics
3) Data collection unit

Most "all in one units" that do conversion and act as a mic pre-amp can not do the job well enough to manage a high resolution signal. Those that do cost money, e.g, 722-744, or many of the Oade modified units, compared to a cheaper unit like a Micro Track 96/24.

When recording a P.A., I would sink my money into better conversion and Pre-amps than mics:

Example: 722-AKG 460 will get you better tapes than DPA 4022 into a Micro-track. However, add a V3 to the Micro Track and then the latter is the winner.

There are many other examples but I'll let the above speak for the larger dialog regarding my belief that conversion and pre-amps are the most critical.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I thought the choice was going to be between something more difficult like raw sexual attraction vs engaging & intellectually stimulating conversation in a long-term relationship.

I figured it was another peeing in the shower thread.