Topic: How to "wear" preamp + recorder?

[Brian Skalinder]

the thing that i find funny about < insert open taping topic here about mic stands, thread adapters, t-bar risers, windscreens, interconnects, troubleshooting, etc. > is do you really need help figuring out these so call tricks? seems pretty cut and dry to me

FTFY

Not everyone has the same base knowledge and experience, nor thinks quite the same way creatively or logically.  Hence the value of discussion boards like TS...even for topics that seem obvious to some.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

For one, these guys probably don't get paid enough to care too much what we do. Second, concealment is concealment...

Personal experience says your speculation is totally wrong.

If this stuff was all so obvious, people wouldn't need to ask and they wouldn't need to prattle on and on in these threads.

[nathan_g]

What...that's it? I'm just wrong? You don't care to back that up?

What are you saying? They get paid a shitload of money? What personal experience? Are you or were you a highly paid ticket taker/bouncer/security guru? Concealment is in fact not concealment? Does this sort of discussion really bother you that much? I hope my prattling on doesn't cause you to lose too much sleep

[travelinbeat]

essentially, part of the venue's job is to ensure that recording isn't taking place, and if it happens (and if the promoter / mgmt wants to be a bit ridiculous about it), they can sue for breach of contract.

...and then the band never plays there again. That's a double edged sword.

Hence the "and if the promoter / mgmt wants to be a bit ridiculous about it" bit.  Again, folks, I'm not saying this is what happens all the time--  quite the contrary..... I'm not even saying that this is a fact.  This is all stuff I seem to remember reading on these forums at some point.  You can feel free to pick apart the faults in what I'm saying, or you can actually read what I'm writing and discover that everything that I'm uncertain about has been described as such.  I was hoping to circumvent these perversions of my message with the excess of declarations that I am not certain, and that a band / promoter would have to be "ridiculous" to pursue litigation.  All I said, as I'll say once more, is that I seem to recall there being legal recourse for an artist who feels that a venue is not acting to the utmost of their abilities in off-setting unauthorized recordings.

What...that's it? I'm just wrong? You don't care to back that up?

What are you saying? They get paid a shitload of money? What personal experience? Are you or were you a highly paid ticket taker/bouncer/security guru? Concealment is in fact not concealment? Does this sort of discussion really bother you that much? I hope my prattling on doesn't cause you to lose too much sleep

If I may be so presumptuous as to assume the intent of FreeLunch's post, I'm guessing that he means to imply that these security professionals, regardless of how much they are or aren't paid, are paid enough to do their job (or this would at least be safe to assume, since if they felt they weren't be paid enough to compensate their efforts, they would seek other employment).  Watching for unauthorized recording certainly qualifies as part of their job, the job that they receive a wage to do.

[nathan_g]

If we are to keep this up then a separate thread is in order.

This sounds like rank paranoia to me. It's because of what we do that some of us worry so much that event security is so 'on to us'. If we were all growing pot in the attic we'd be worried about the cops kicking in the door. If we were all stashing money in the Caymans then we'd be worrying about the tax man. If we were racecar drivers, we'd be worried about crashing. If we all lived in glass houses, we'd be worried about people thro- strike that...some of us don't seem to give a shit about that one. As it happens, we discreetly record concerts, therefore we tend to be more concerned than the average person that the event staff will discover this.

This hijack began over the discussion of stealth techniques, as if somehow discussing this will make us look conspicuous as we walk through the doors of any given venue. So what if a concert security guy reads this? Will this make you (nobody in particular) somehow look different as you hand over your ticket? Unless you accidentally hand over your preamp instead of your ticket then what's the big deal? Will this knowledge somehow turn the security guy into an ace taper-spotter? Hmmm, that guy looks like he has microphones in his shirt pocket! Is that a Microtrack in your pocket or are you just happy to see me? 

Barring very invasive and thorough door security, unless you do something profoundly stupid as you're entering a show then the security goons shouldn't pay any more attention to you than the next guy. Even if they've memorized every last 'stealth' post available here. The idea that these guys are so focused on our little niche hobby is hilarious to me. There are many other much more serious matters for them to concern themselves with.

[huskerdu]

Barring very invasive and thorough door security, unless you do something profoundly stupid as you're entering a show then the security goons shouldn't pay any more attention to you than the next guy. Even if they've memorized every last 'stealth' post available here. The idea that these guys are so focused on our little niche hobby is hilarious to me. There are many other much more serious matters for them to concern themselves with.

I've realized that the more grey hair I have, the less security seems concerned about me.   

[Scooter123]

My answer is that I look amazing like Simple Jack.  As I approach Security, I simply drool and say "You M-M-M-M Make Me Happy." 

And presto, I get in, even with a full rig and stands. 

[Belexes]

^ LOL. 

[stevetoney]

Add me to the list of people that have never once heard of 'breach of contract' as an issue against venues for not ferreting out stealthers.  Simply put, if there's a legal violation, the violation is between the taper and the band for copyright infringement...not between the band and the venue for contract violation.  Having said this, the reason many venues have policies is because they don't want tapers ruining the live music experience of the rest of the patrons...but many venues also provide a complimentary service to bands to help screen for tapers since many/most venues do provide an obligatory security check.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that there's simply no law nor is there a legal precedent for a band having a legitimate claim against a venue when a patron (in stealth mode) is the copyright violator.  Frankly, the whole legality of stealth taping issue is mostly a gray area.  There have been many threads is ts.com history where this has been discussed.  In the US, each state has specific laws about live music recording.  Even with the laws explicitly stated, it's difficult to figure out what is OK and what's not.

[acidjack]

^ Correct.  For instance, in NY, all a venue can do is ask you to check the gear.  If you don't want to check it, then you can leave.  Presumably if you commit other copyright violations, this is a civil matter b/w you and the band. 

As to vicarious liability for a venue over someone stealthing during the show and this stealth tape somehow angering the band and causing them to sue, they might be able to say the venue was so negligent in its search for tapers that they were liable - but only if the venue first had established that it had a duty to root out stealth taping.  Clearly if the band's contract said, "You will search for stealth tapers" that would strengthen the argument.

A band would also have to prove damages. Unless the recording was downloaded thousands of times, it might be hard to make that worth their while.

Quite frankly, other than unique situations like the infamous Black Crowes incident discussed on TS elsewhere, I have a hard time imagining in this day and age that when you can steal a band's entire officially released catalog in about 20 minutes from a torrent site that they really give a damn about audience tapes, especially the vast majority of low-quality stealth tapes out there.

[stevetoney]

This sounds like rank paranoia to me.

Yes and no. 

On the very few occasions that I stealth anymore, I simply don't worry about getting caught.  I've taped enough shows that I'm confident that I know how to handle every situation that comes my way and I know how to react to prevent incidents.  When taping, there's simply no replacing a confident attitude (and by that I certainly don't mean cocky...quite the opposite).  By confident, I mean being 'situation aware'.

OTOH, I know that alot of people...probably most...get pretty worked up and nervous about stealth taping.  One might consider that paranoid, but it's probably the norm, not the exception.

[Belexes]

With a majority of the crowd these days taking out their cell phones, video taping, and then uploading on Youtube...well, I am a small fish in a very large pond now if I audio record a show and upload it to Dime for small number of people to download.  I think the paranoia of someone actually profiting from a recording these days has gone down substantially.  There are exceptions though like Led Zep's '07 reunion.

[ilduclo]

My answer is that I look amazing like Simple Jack.  As I approach Security, I simply drool and say "You M-M-M-M Make Me Happy." 

And presto, I get in, even with a full rig and stands.

but you NEVER go full 'tard.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I've realized that the more grey hair I have, the less security seems concerned about me.   

And the more that kids in the lot hide stuff when I walk by.

[nathan_g]

When taping, there's simply no replacing a confident attitude (and by that I certainly don't mean cocky...quite the opposite).  By confident, I mean being 'situation aware'.

Agreed. There are times when my heart beats a little faster but I just keep my game face on and enjoy the show.

With a majority of the crowd these days taking out their cell phones, video taping, and then uploading on Youtube...well, I am a small fish in a very large pond

Very true...and a lot of the bigger phones look quite a bit like some of the smaller recorders.

I've realized that the more grey hair I have, the less security seems concerned about me.   

And the more that kids in the lot hide stuff when I walk by.

Right on both counts.  My dad went grey early...looks like I'm on course to do the same. Ha! Maybe it'll help me out in the end!



Someone PM'ed me regarding this stealth discussion business and it led me to make several conclusions. Obviously, I'm not going to post a PM publicly but I will post a digest of my thoughts on the issue. Then I'm done with it. 

1. Some venues have really stringent security with wands, pat-downs and so on. Public discussion of stealth techniques is bad! You people talking about this are fucking it up for the rest of us! 

Security measures such as these are more the exception rather than the rule. Besides, if any such measures as those were employed, nothing that's been discussed in this particular thread would make any difference - the taper would almost definitely be busted if he/she were limited to the techniques mentioned so far. You'd have to be far more creative than has been discussed in ANY thread I've seen to get by that level of scrutiny.

2. Some of these security guys seriously know their business. They're pros...they're big, scary and thorough...and they're out to get us tapers! Also, public discussion of stealth techniques is bad! You people talking about this are fucking it up for the rest of us! 

Think about it. These 'security professionals' know about discreet body miking. It's part of their job to know about such things...they use them. Additionally, don't you think that professionals can figure this shit out for themselves...with or without our help? If a bunch of tapers can figure out how to sneak gear in then it stands to reason that these crack security teams can figure it out, too.

The pat-down/metal detector types of venues, generally arenas - some clubs, typically only care about tapers as much as the band and their management do. They're far more worried about fights breaking out and liquor being brought in. The smuggled liquor undercuts in-house alcohol sales and helps to fuel angry drunks, which leads to fights. Tapers don't cost a venue jack shit.

3. (again) Public discussion of stealth techniques is bad! You people talking about this are fucking it up for the rest of us! 

Try googling "stealth concert recording". Anybody can search the google. if they do then they'll probably run across this:

It's the 2nd search result.

http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=4255.0

Check out the 10th post down...user "rjl".

I spend quite a bit of time on TS myself but there are other sites that discuss taping. Stealth taping. Openly.

4.  (and again...) Public discussion of stealth techniques is bad! You people talking about this are fucking it up for the rest of us! 

Security personnel have procedures that they follow. These procedures are just as likely to uncover a pipe bomb as they are a recording rig. The notion that these guys are actively patrolling TS in an effort to discover some carelessly posted super-secret jedi trick is hilarious.

I couldn't care less if stealth gets discussed openly or not. I just think it's funny when people get so bent out of shape over something so petty. If such info weren't already completely accessible to pretty much the whole world, I would readily concede the point. If it's TS policy not to discuss stealth, that's totally fine by me...although the only attention that any moderator seems to have paid to this convoluted thread was in the form of participation.

I do have one question for those who are so worried about the security goon squads keeping tabs on us. How do you keep your gear from falling out of your panties whenever you have to crotch it?    (Just joking...sorry...I couldn't resist!)