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Author Topic: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!  (Read 14091 times)

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Offline aaronji

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2011, 04:05:03 PM »
^^^ Interesting.  What sort of shows have you taped that way (4060 > PMD620 on PIP)?  Anything on either extreme of the volume spectrum?  Curious if distortion is a problem for loud shows  and noise for quiet shows (the recorder is noisier with plug-in power on).  I have been thinking for a while about getting a microdot to 1/8" Y cable and giving it a try...

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2011, 04:16:37 PM »
^^^ Interesting.  What sort of shows have you taped that way (4060 > PMD620 on PIP)?  Anything on either extreme of the volume spectrum?  Curious if distortion is a problem for loud shows  and noise for quiet shows (the recorder is noisier with plug-in power on).  I have been thinking for a while about getting a microdot to 1/8" Y cable and giving it a try...

You'd want to make a test yourself on something you don't really care about in case it doesn't work for you. I only taped a friend's loud cover band that way. It sounded fine and the wave form looked fine. I usually don't record with my 4060's. I'm generally not an omni fan due to the chatter you pick up at noisy venues.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline aaronji

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2011, 01:17:11 PM »
^^^ Thanks, fmaderjr.  I have been thinking about trying this for quite some time, ever since I saw a post (from goodcooker, maybe) saying it was do-able.  Your experience with a loud band has convinced me to give it a try.  Most of what I record is moderate in volume, so I am not too worried about overloading if you've had no problems with a loud source.  It will definitely make for a compact travel set-up!

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2011, 05:08:09 PM »
It will definitely make for a compact travel set-up!

It sure will. I just recorded the same band with an old pair of Sonic Studios DSM-6's (in great condition that I couldn't resist picking up cheap)  > M10 PIP. The M10 perfectly powers DSM mics according to Len. It sounded great and was very easy to use. I think I'll use that setup again fairly often and may eventually think of selling my 4060's since I don't think I need both. The 4060's would be better for quiet stuff, but I don't do much of that.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 05:17:37 PM by fmaderjr »
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

adrianf74

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2011, 06:17:02 PM »
It sure will. I just recorded the same band with an old pair of Sonic Studios DSM-6's (in great condition that I couldn't resist picking up cheap)  > M10 PIP. The M10 perfectly powers DSM mics according to Len. It sounded great and was very easy to use. I think I'll use that setup again fairly often and may eventually think of selling my 4060's since I don't think I need both. The 4060's would be better for quiet stuff, but I don't do much of that.
Cool to hear.  And to think I just picked up a pair of 4061's... you're killing me.  :)

I'd been considering the DSM-6's as well for this very reason.  Len has stated on his site (and here for that matter) that the M10 powers them perfectly.  Makes a very nice  >:D rig without the need for a battery box/preamp in-line.  I'll be happy with my 4061's and battery box... and maybe if I see some DSM-6's come up... (don't tempt me). 

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2011, 01:24:55 AM »
Maybe I should get my DPA 4060s re-terminated to the original CS battery box then? Im still unsure of why Chris recommended to do it this way, as my original setup was great as it was. He did say the CS battery box has had faulty wiring and a lot of people have complained about that. Maybe he wanted me to steer clear of problems that could have arose.

Going back to this... some general thoughts about your termination options.

It's true the Coresound battery boxes can be prone to failure. I consider it poor design to not have reinforced the mini-xlr jack with epoxy or some type of glue. Excessive force on the mini-xlr plug when connected can certainly create enough pressure to break the solder joints. FWIW, I've repaired or modified well over a dozen CSB or HEB boxes... the capacitor value choice in the HEB's was particularly awful for roll-off.

With that said, I would strongly disagree with any recommendation to terminate your mics an 1/8" stereo mini plug. There is no worse connector for what we do! Stereo mini plugs are just begging to become accidentally disconnected and develop shorts rather easily. The standard locking 4-pin mini-xlr that comes with the HEB's is actually a very nice design and will be infinitely more reliable in the long-run even if the battery box jack is not reinforced. The only thing I don't like about it is the pigtail design, but it's something you learn to live with. I would personally prefer a dedicated mini-xlr output so that you could use a variety of breakout cables dependent on the situation.

If you really want to improve your rig, my advise is to get a Tinybox. Jon can build you one with a 6-pin locking mini-xlr that provides both input and out along with a dedicated 1/8" stereo out. Gain settings of 0-10-20 would have you covered in virtually any situation with the 4060s.


Really well I have sold about 2000 or more preamps ALL with 3.5 mm connectors you know how many returns I get for a bad input jack about 2 a year. 3.5 mm jacks can be fine if you use the right high quality connectors. I have found a way to mount them and the proper connectors that dont fail. I also offer locking connectors to customers that want to pay the difference. But to say that 3.5 mm is the worst connector for taping is misleading and untrue.

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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2011, 01:30:34 AM »
Maybe I should get my DPA 4060s re-terminated to the original CS battery box then? Im still unsure of why Chris recommended to do it this way, as my original setup was great as it was. He did say the CS battery box has had faulty wiring and a lot of people have complained about that. Maybe he wanted me to steer clear of problems that could have arose. But yeah, if Im mainly taping loud rock bands in small clubs (which is what my omnis are for -- I bought his CA-14's for arenas and theaters), Im going to have problems if this happens when I bring the gain all the way down.

The distortion is coming from your mics or the preamp being set to loud and overloading the input of your recorder. I dont recommend using more than 15 db of gain with these mics for loud shows. The 4060 will overload with loud shows. I have see it happen time and time again. The 4061 is the mic you want if you dont want overload. The CS box has an issue with the 4 pin connector they use because they are using the shell for signal ground something it was never designed for. It was designed for a shield not to pass audio its a press fit connection that is prone to corrosion and failure. They should use a 5 pin connector or a 6 pin connector to avoid this. Press fit connections have no business in the signal chain. Also make sure you have a fresh 9v in this preamp of quality.
for warranty returns email me at
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2011, 10:12:13 AM »

But to say that 3.5 mm is the worst connector for taping is misleading and untrue.

Right...  ::)

You're not going to get a returned product when someone loses 5-10 seconds of their recording because they've yanked the mini plug cable out while pulling their preamp out of their pocket.

Your product sales have absolutely nothing to do with the reliability of 3.5mm connectors.


adrianf74

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2011, 12:34:09 PM »
You're not going to get a returned product when someone loses 5-10 seconds of their recording because they've yanked the mini plug cable out while pulling their preamp out of their pocket.

Your product sales have absolutely nothing to do with the reliability of 3.5mm connectors.
Umm... I can't say I've ever managed this in almost 20 years of taping.  I've had a D7 that misfired once on a record.  I've had an analog D3 that I thought was going and it wasn't.  But never have I had a 1/8" connector ever come loose on me.  If you grab your gear the wrong way, that'll happen... find a better place to locate it than a pocket; have never done, and never will.

Offline hi and lo

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2011, 12:45:50 PM »
You're not going to get a returned product when someone loses 5-10 seconds of their recording because they've yanked the mini plug cable out while pulling their preamp out of their pocket.

Your product sales have absolutely nothing to do with the reliability of 3.5mm connectors.
Umm... I can't say I've ever managed this in almost 20 years of taping.  I've had a D7 that misfired once on a record.  I've had an analog D3 that I thought was going and it wasn't.  But never have I had a 1/8" connector ever come loose on me.  If you grab your gear the wrong way, that'll happen... find a better place to locate it than a pocket; have never done, and never will.

There's a first time for everything. If a locking connector wasn't a smart idea, we'd be using TRS instead of XLR on everything we do.

Offline anr

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2011, 03:09:16 AM »
I'm with Mr Church on this one.  It is a no-brainer to simply tape cables to what ever the unit is they are plugged in to; be it a battery box or recorder.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a 3.5mm jack/socket.  Good quality connectors are fit for purpose, so long as the purpose is not doing a Daltrey and swinging the device round your head.  Even then, he uses the same "strain relief" - a roll of electrical tape!  Like Mr C says, avoid cheapo, poor quality - but that applies to everything discussed here.  Taping cables to boxes is simply an extension of placing gear in gear bags.  My M10's pouch strap broke the other night.  The reason it didn't hit the floor/disconnect was 2 inches of electrical tape fixing the B Box cable to the back plate. 

Offline acidjack

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2011, 10:08:44 AM »
I'm with Mr Church on this one.  It is a no-brainer to simply tape cables to what ever the unit is they are plugged in to; be it a battery box or recorder.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a 3.5mm jack/socket.  Good quality connectors are fit for purpose, so long as the purpose is not doing a Daltrey and swinging the device round your head.  Even then, he uses the same "strain relief" - a roll of electrical tape!  Like Mr C says, avoid cheapo, poor quality - but that applies to everything discussed here.  Taping cables to boxes is simply an extension of placing gear in gear bags.  My M10's pouch strap broke the other night.  The reason it didn't hit the floor/disconnect was 2 inches of electrical tape fixing the B Box cable to the back plate.

I'm sorry.. are you guys really trying to argue that non-locking connectors are superior to locking connectors?  Because all hi and lo said was that locking connectors are superior.  I don't know how one can dispute that.

Having to tape things down is an extra step you only need because... you aren't using a locking connector.   ::)
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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adrianf74

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2011, 12:52:13 PM »
I'm not arguing that.  I can fully appreciate the use of locking connectors.  I'm just saying in that close to 20-years of doing this I've never had a mic or deck unplug on me.  I know it can happen (and has happened to others) but I guess my delicate handling of my gear has been good to me has prevented this from happening to me.  And no, I don't tape anything down anywhere, either.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2011, 09:45:04 AM »

But to say that 3.5 mm is the worst connector for taping is misleading and untrue.

Right...  ::)

You're not going to get a returned product when someone loses 5-10 seconds of their recording because they've yanked the mini plug cable out while pulling their preamp out of their pocket.

Your product sales have absolutely nothing to do with the reliability of 3.5mm connectors.

First of all I never said my 3.5 mm connectors are better than a locking connector that would be moronic. What I did say is I use a quality connector that has a very low failure rate. And my connectors have EVERYTHING to do with my preamp sales. If they sucked I would never sell a preamp. I agree a locking connector is better but not the only way to connect audio. Companies like Sony, Roland, Teac ect agree, Until someone makes a cheap connector that is stereo that is the same size and locks it will always be a standard for small recording devices. Its all about size nobody makes a "affordable" locking connector that has the same size as a 3.5 mm jack NOBODY. Yeah I know about lemo I know about microdot ect... But again they are very expensive. If I my customers were willing to pay the difference I would love to use locking connectors but I cant justify $70 extra in parts for a lemo connector x 4 for my preamps. The 3.5 mm connector when you get the right one is very reliable and does not cause static issues with your recordings and does not get unplugged unless you tug at it. I dont want to argue but 2000 + preamps tell the whole story.

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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: HEB DPA4060 > CA-9200 > EDRIOL R09 came out distorted... help!
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2011, 09:47:01 AM »
I'm with Mr Church on this one.  It is a no-brainer to simply tape cables to what ever the unit is they are plugged in to; be it a battery box or recorder.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a 3.5mm jack/socket.  Good quality connectors are fit for purpose, so long as the purpose is not doing a Daltrey and swinging the device round your head.  Even then, he uses the same "strain relief" - a roll of electrical tape!  Like Mr C says, avoid cheapo, poor quality - but that applies to everything discussed here.  Taping cables to boxes is simply an extension of placing gear in gear bags.  My M10's pouch strap broke the other night.  The reason it didn't hit the floor/disconnect was 2 inches of electrical tape fixing the B Box cable to the back plate.

I'm sorry.. are you guys really trying to argue that non-locking connectors are superior to locking connectors?  Because all hi and lo said was that locking connectors are superior.  I don't know how one can dispute that.

Having to tape things down is an extra step you only need because... you aren't using a locking connector.   ::)
Nobody is saying that :) That would be a silly argument. Its all about size the size of the 3.5 mm is hard to beat. Nothing is smaller or the same size in the $1 price range.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

 

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