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Author Topic: Nakamichi mx100 with condenser mic / balanced to unbalanced  (Read 4081 times)

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Offline Nula44

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Nakamichi mx100 with condenser mic / balanced to unbalanced
« on: January 04, 2012, 07:15:36 PM »
Hi Everybody

does anybody got any experience with connecting an externally phantom powered condenser mic to a Nakamichi MX100 mixer?
i mean Nakamichi accepts only unbalanced inputs..and should use a transformer when balanced line would be plugged in...
...what do you guys think?..would those transformers work?

Shure:
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/accessories/microphone-accessories/problem-solvers/A15BT-bridging-transformer

Lundahl: (expensive as hell)
http://www.lundahl.se/catframe.html

could i do some damadge to my mic or mixer whan doin this kind of tricks...?

Here is nakamichi manual:
http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Manual_NakamichiMX100.pdf

thanks




Offline DSatz

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Re: Nakamichi mx100 with condenser mic / balanced to unbalanced
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2012, 08:12:09 AM »
In the 1970s I modified an MX-100 by installing three subminiature Beyer input transformers which are no longer available, unfortunately. It wasn't too difficult and it seemed to work well. If I recall correctly (and I might not ...) the preamp already had tip-ring-sleeve phone jacks built in, so I didn't even have to change those out.

The thing is, depending on your particular microphones and the phantom power supply that you're using with them, you may not really need transformers to unbalance their signals. You should ask the manufacturer of your microphones how to unbalance their signals--the answer varies considerably with different microphone types. Sometimes it's as simple as leaving one lead unconnected, and making sure that the 48 VDC isn't coming out of the power supply and going into the preamp.

You could use in-line transformer adapters with unbalanced 1/4" output plugs and avoid having to modify your mixer. Unfortunately all the Shure "problem solver" in-line transformers that I see on their Web site look as if they step the signal voltage up or down. I don't think you want that for this application. Oddly they don't seem to offer a simple 1:1 input transformer for low-impedance microphones--I guess this isn't a very common application any more.

Lundahl, if I recall correctly, actually has a better adapter available for this specific purpose than anything they show on their Web site. It's on their professional price list, or it was as of a couple years ago. I seem to recall $195 apiece, which does seem steep. Alternatively for that kind of money you could get a Jensen MS-2XX "Iso-Max" box with two of their excellent transformers (http://www.jensen-transformers.com/ms2xx.html).

The big problem with subminiature transformers, especially if they step up the incoming voltage at all, is that they're easier to saturate (overload) than larger transformers, particularly at low frequencies. When a transformer saturates, the distortion increases very rapidly. You should totally forget any notion of "transformer warmth" with this class of transformer--you can use them to couple a signal and block DC, but you really don't want to play around with their overload limit.

Keep in mind also that with directional (pressure gradient) microphones, low-frequency disturbances such as moving air or vibration picked up by the microphone can have strong low-frequency components that might not seem audibly significant but could saturate an undersized input transformer, particularly a step-up transformer.

--best regards
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 08:14:33 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Nula44

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Re: Nakamichi mx100 with condenser mic / balanced to unbalanced
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2012, 01:18:29 PM »
hello guys..thanks for answers..

Neutrik NTE1 looks a little too complicated for my "electro-ingineering" knowledge :) ...goto learn to use those things one day..

sorry for my newbie questions...but

DSatz...whan you said: Sometimes it's as simple as leaving one lead unconnected, and making sure that the 48 VDC isn't coming out of the power supply and going into the preamp...Have you meant something like this.. in the image attached:

Best regards and thanks again


Offline Nula44

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Re: Nakamichi mx100 with condenser mic / balanced to unbalanced
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2012, 06:02:55 PM »
thanks Jon..

Sorry if i'm being pathetic...but what will Neutrik NTE1 do, once installed properly..

..i mean..then i could normally plug in balanced output and thats it..or what?

...i really dont have any experience in this field so sorry again


runonce

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Re: Nakamichi mx100 with condenser mic / balanced to unbalanced
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 09:11:24 AM »
First thing - check with the mike (or perhaps the phantom box) manufacturer for unbalancing instructions.
Hopefully its as simple as example 3.(in the upthread graphic)

Since you are probably using a phantom box - your connection to the MX-100 will be very short.
Not sure there is much to be gained forcing it to be balanced all the way to the preamp.(although I understand the temptation)

You may even benefit from any potential gain penalty (is that in play?) in the unbalancing...not sure I'd trust something hot, like a AKG 480 going right into the Nak...




Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Nakamichi mx100 with condenser mic / balanced to unbalanced
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 01:06:03 PM »
What do you have on hand already?  If you have a battery mod'ed MX100, a set of condensers, and a power supply like a denecke PS2, I would try cables wired like diagram #3 (which can't accidentally transmit phantom power).  It will probably work OK.  There are still plenty of mics which have output transformers (my AKG460's and ADK A-51's), and depending on the power supply you use, you may not have a problem with balanced/unbalanced at all anyway.

If you have to start buying stuff like a phantom power supply, transformers, and adapters,  you could potentially end up with an expensive science experiment which may not be practical in the end.  If the project is headed that way, you might be better off to get a UA-5 (less than $100) which will take 2 mics in the front and line level in the back.

Also consider that the Nak mics which traditionally plug into an MX100 are considered to have a low output.   If you take a mic which has a much higher output (Beyer MC930's and Senn K6's are generally considered to have a hot output for instance) you might overload the input on the MX100.  I don't know that this will happen, but before I spent too much money, I might try to find out if it's a problem.
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Offline Nula44

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Re: Nakamichi mx100 with condenser mic / balanced to unbalanced
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 01:57:24 PM »
thanks guys very much..u gave me a lot of options...

will work it out..

Thanks again

 

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