Topic: Taping outdoors with omnis, stack taping or FOB?

[nicegrin]

When taping rock shows outdoors at big venues, in what spot do you usually get the best results when using omnis?
FOB or close to one of the stacks?

...and also what mic configs work best from that spot? (given that you have to go 007 style (hat mount)!)?   

Thanks!
N.

[aaronji]

When taping rock shows outdoors at big venues, in what spot do you usually get the best results when using omnis?
FOB or close to one of the stacks?

The last few big outdoor rock shows I went to were deafeningly loud near the stacks; if you choose that option make sure your gear can handle the SPLs.  And wear ear plugs.

...and also what mic configs work best from that spot? (given that you have to go 007 style (hat mount)!)?   

Not a whole lot of configuration options for omnis in a hat...

[Teen Age Riot]

I prefer stacks.
The closer you get to them, the louder the music in relation to crowd noise. Since a lot of outdoor concerts have strict dB limits, this can be very important.
Also, if it's windy the chance of phasing is smaller when you're closer to the sound source.

And wear ear plugs.

QFT.

[fandelive]

In your case : stacks.
Even with 007 cardioids, because the mix is going to be mono anyway.

[acidjack]

Stacks, no question.  One omni ideally on glasses or something that puts 'em on each side of your ear.  With the aforementioned earplugs in 'em.

[SxPxDxCx]

Even if you have your mics in a hat I would recommend wind screens as well.  Wind can ruin a recording faster then some chatty person in the crowd.

[bryonsos]

In your case : stacks.
Even with 007 cardioids, because the mix is going to be mono anyway.

Most large events are mixed in mono, so stack tape (back by the repeaters should be good and not as loud). For smaller shows mixed in stereo, find the sweet spot and stand there. Generally, this is somewhere between the board and the stage.

[jbou]

One omni ideally on glasses or something that puts 'em on each side of your ear.

What do you mean by that? You don't mean only one mic, do you?

[Teen Age Riot]

I'm sure that most shows these days, no matter what size, are mixed in stereo. I've heard that it's done in order to avoid comb filtering. It's just that the separation usually isn't that extreme unless the panning is used as an effect. Toms will often be slightly panned left-right, for example, but you probably won't miss anything of importance if you're on one side or the other.

That said, I made a stack tape at a Black Crowes show in 2001. They were opening for Neil Young & Crazy Horse in a 20 000 seat amphitheater. One of the guitars is hardly in the mix.

[acidjack]

One omni ideally on glasses or something that puts 'em on each side of your ear.

What do you mean by that? You don't mean only one mic, do you?

Wrote that a little too fast - one omni per side - i.e., HRTF

[nicegrin]

Thanks all for sharing your experience and suggestions. They are confirming what my experience and gut feeling is as well.

Does anyone know btw a smart way to create a "jecklin disc" effect for a hat rig? :p


 

[acidjack]

Thanks all for sharing your experience and suggestions. They are confirming what my experience and gut feeling is as well.

Does anyone know btw a smart way to create a "jecklin disc" effect for a hat rig? :p


 

I'd say your head does a pretty good job. 

[page]

Even if you have your mics in a hat I would recommend wind screens as well.  Wind can ruin a recording faster then some chatty person in the crowd.

qft

[newplanet7]

Any reason you ruled out cards from the get go?

[ideal77dlr]

I'd go for a stack tape, although sometimes I find it harder when close to the source of the sound not to overcook.

[daspyknows]

Even if you have your mics in a hat I would recommend wind screens as well.  Wind can ruin a recording faster then some chatty person in the crowd.

Rarely do I use screens with mk4s in my had.  stealthier without and unless the wind coming from in front it needs to be very windy.  This differs by mics and placement.  I usually have them above my ears.

[pillowman]

ups, I like to jump on this topic with my own question ...
I have to do some big summer festivals this year and I always like to went
front of speackers - so what cap do I have to use
this is what I already have ::
AT853sc  ??  ATU853c  ??  ATU853sc  ??  AT943o  ??  a pair of DPA4061

I realy like the sc but I never used them outside so any hint is welcome.
p.

[adrianf74]

Any reason you ruled out cards from the get go?

Some people, myself included, generally roll with omnis.   If I had some Schoeps or something similar that was well over $1.5k, I'd be more inclined to run those.   However, I've generally found the results from omnis is better outdoors than cards.   Point in hand was last year when I ran CA-14's open on a stand right at the soundboard area at a festival along with my friends AKG480/CK61's.  The CA-14's sounded better (and that was from a good 200 feet from the stage).   I also ran the CA-14 omnis on the Sunday (open) from the same spot and switched to the cards for Jon Anderson's set.  Suffice to say: one of the BIGGEST MISTAKES I'VE EVER MADE.  Figuring I'd fight off the wooks and super fans, I got hit with lots of wind (storm was rolling in) even though I had dead rats on the mics.   The omnis (used before and after) didn't suffer the same fate.

Regardless of this, I almost prefer the sound of good omnis to cards most of the time; but that's just me.

[adrianf74]

ups, I like to jump on this topic with my own question ...
I have to do some big summer festivals this year and I always like to went
front of speackers - so what cap do I have to use
this is what I already have ::
AT853sc  ??  ATU853c  ??  ATU853sc  ??  AT943o  ??  a pair of DPA4061

I realy like the sc but I never used them outside so any hint is welcome.
p.

See my post I just posted about AKG 480's with CK61 caps and you'll know that I'ma bigger fan of omnis.  You've got the 4061's so make sure you use windscreens if there is any wind around.   If you can run dead rats on top of the windscreens, even better.   If you're up close, and in line with the speakers (or even if you're not), the omnis are likely the better choice save for the chatty cathys.

[bryonsos]

Some people, myself included, generally roll with omnis. [snip] Regardless of this, I almost prefer the sound of good omnis to cards most of the time; but that's just me.

You are not alone.   

[newplanet7]

Any reason you ruled out cards from the get go?

Some people, myself included, generally roll with omnis.   If I had some Schoeps or something similar that was well over $1.5k, I'd be more inclined to run those.   However, I've generally found the results from omnis is better outdoors than cards.   Point in hand was last year when I ran CA-14's open on a stand right at the soundboard area at a festival along with my friends AKG480/CK61's.  The CA-14's sounded better (and that was from a good 200 feet from the stage).   I also ran the CA-14 omnis on the Sunday (open) from the same spot and switched to the cards for Jon Anderson's set.  Suffice to say: one of the BIGGEST MISTAKES I'VE EVER MADE.  Figuring I'd fight off the wooks and super fans, I got hit with lots of wind (storm was rolling in) even though I had dead rats on the mics.   The omnis (used before and after) didn't suffer the same fate.

Regardless of this, I almost prefer the sound of good omnis to cards most of the time; but that's just me.

I can understand if you AREN'T stack taping and you are in optimal places be it stealth or open but
what does it matter for a stack tape? Omnis would fair the same I would reckon.
From the stack tapes I have heard There would be next to no stereo info if you are hugging a stack.

[stevetoney]

Just a thought, but for stack tapes, couldn't you get creative in post to simulate stereo if you wanted?  If you apply EQ to the left channel to simulate the instruments on the left side of the stage... say if guitars were left raise those in the left channel.  If bass was right, raise the bass in the right channel using EQ.  I haven't done this though...would phase cancellation be an issue?

[Belexes]

I like to be close to stacks with omni's. But if outdoors and under an amphitheater roof, I will opt for cards because of the undesirable sound characteristics the roof introduces.

The problem with being up close at a loud rock show is you get the crazy wildass fans that can disturb your recording, even though it can be deafening loud where you are.
Omni's can attract asshats.

[bluntforcetrauma]

So go with FOB stack taping, you then get both.  Stick the omni's thru the breathing holes in a baseball cap, dont have to worry about orientation of mic as they are omni. Black on Back, Hat and mic. get close to stack as you can. This will lessen the " feeling" and feel of the recording from far away. If you record from away; mics " pic" up the distance thus causing a distant sounding recording.   Also being close you can set levels low and allow the Band's sound aid in setting the levels. So if you are close and stacked, levels can be low because you only need so much to get a recording and when the levels are set low then the less you will  pick up  close crowd noise. The distance from sound source and levels are directly related.  closer to sound source lower your levels, thus less you pick up the crowd close to you. So more loud music is captured in relationship to the crowd around you when you are close to sound source and levels are set enough to capture the music while allowing some head room recording in 48khz. so you can add more " db" in post if you need to make music fuller and louder.
All in all its really what sound "you"really like.

[adrianf74]

@bryonsos: I'm glad to hear it. 

@newplanet7: It's the characteristics that each mic introduces.   I find that omnis add a touch of "artificialness" that I just don't like (even when stack taping).   I've recorded some shows with cards at an arena in the first five rows and they sound decent but thinking back to it, I would've run the omnis (if I'd had them).

@tonedeaf: You could "fake the stereo" imagery by either introducing a slight delay but you can introduce phase issues if you have no clue as to what you're doing.  I only "fake stereo" when I'm using a mono soundboard in a matrix with stereo mics. 

@Belexes: Indeed, outdoors in an amphitheatre, if I'm in the pit/floor/100's/whatever, I'll consider omnis, however, if I'm forced to sit in the second section or further, cards are the only way to go.   I've run cards from about 10-15 rows from the stage in the 100's and the result was good but I think the omnis would have been the better route based on my experiences.

@bluntforcetrauma: Exactly.  Proximity plays a good part (in fact, I've run omnis at a stage lip with an artist right in front of me (4061's) and he didn't even see the mics).   That recording, suprisingly, wasn't half bad.  My buddy had brought the 480's and had planned to set up by the soundboard area but the sound in the bar/club just "dropped off" about 20 feet in front of the board so he packed up his gear.  The other part is preference.   I don't like cards outdoors unless, as @Belexes pointed out, there's a roof/covering to deal with.

[F.O.Bean]

I record FOB at 99pct of shows. Mainly running hypers/Dina and get killer results. I also use cards there as well. I just got a busman stereo mic and I can't wait to run ms/blumlein/from the sweet spot

[newplanet7]

Look at a ton of FOB tapes and most are made with CARDS.

[adrianf74]

Look at a ton of FOB tapes and most are made with CARDS.

I'm not discounting this, however, it _ALL DEPENDS_ as to what the best mic to use is and where to be located.  As I've stated previously, my buddy ran AKG 480's at an outdoor festival (no tent -- just PURE OPEN SKY) last summer and my CA-14 omnis _SMOKED_ the 480's with 61 caps.   There was another instance where the sound dropped off where we were and his 480's smoked my CA-14 omnis _AND_ cards.   That said, if the OP has seats that are closer up to the stacks, then the omnis might be the better solution but there is no "one size fits all" in this game: IT ALL DEPENDS.

[newplanet7]

Look at a ton of FOB tapes and most are made with CARDS.

I'm not discounting this, however, it _ALL DEPENDS_ as to what the best mic to use is and where to be located.  As I've stated previously, my buddy ran AKG 480's at an outdoor festival (no tent -- just PURE OPEN SKY) last summer and my CA-14 omnis _SMOKED_ the 480's with 61 caps.   There was another instance where the sound dropped off where we were and his 480's smoked my CA-14 omnis _AND_ cards.   That said, if the OP has seats that are closer up to the stacks, then the omnis might be the better solution but there is no "one size fits all" in this game: IT ALL DEPENDS.

This is exactly what I am and have been saying, but everyone is so quick to rule out cards.
Hence my below comment earlier.

Any reason you ruled out cards from the get go?

[earmonger]

I don't have Schoeps or DPA, just CA-14. And with all the pro-cardioid sentiment here, from people much more experienced than I am,  I have been trying to experiment and understand how cardioids can do the job.

I understand that cards focus on the sound from the stage/stacks and rule out the ambient distractions.

But...omni is for me. First, as all have said,  cards are much more susceptible to wind noise.

But beyond that, the folks in front are just as likely to be chatting as the folks in back.

And ears are omni.

Most of all I get this odd, holodeck feeling from card playback in headphones, like there is nothing--I mean nothingness, the void--behind me.  It's just a weird, unnatural sensation. Not like the concert I was at.

I like omnis. I have regretted them when I am stuck next to chatterboxes, but not that often. And yes, FOB is the sweet spot unless the place is really eccentric.

[newplanet7]

I am not saying don't go for omnis, just saying don't rule out cards.
I think we are on the same page. I am just not a fan of omni's unless they
can be optimally placed. IE onstage/lip, open FOB.
IMO when you wear them they don't sound like omnis should.

[aaronji]

So go with FOB stack taping, you then get both.  Stick the omni's thru the breathing holes in a baseball cap, dont have to worry about orientation of mic as they are omni. Black on Back, Hat and mic. get close to stack as you can. This will lessen the " feeling" and feel of the recording from far away. If you record from away; mics " pic" up the distance thus causing a distant sounding recording.   Also being close you can set levels low and allow the Band's sound aid in setting the levels. So if you are close and stacked, levels can be low because you only need so much to get a recording and when the levels are set low then the less you will  pick up  close crowd noise. The distance from sound source and levels are directly related.  closer to sound source lower your levels, thus less you pick up the crowd close to you. So more loud music is captured in relationship to the crowd around you when you are close to sound source and levels are set enough to capture the music while allowing some head room recording in 48khz. so you can add more " db" in post if you need to make music fuller and louder.
All in all its really what sound "you"really like.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think 48 kHz gives you additional headroom...

And ears are omni.

Sigh.

IMO when you wear them they don't sound like omnis should.

Definitely alters the pick-up pattern when you stick something like a head in between those omnis!  I find this to be true for cards too, incidentally...

[Fried Chicken Boy]

allowing some head room recording in 48khz. so you can add more " db" in post

I may be mistaken, but I don't think 48 kHz gives you additional headroom...

Don't know for sure but perhaps he means "24-bit" as opposed to "48kHz" for being able to dial up more clean gain above noise in post?

[F.O.Bean]

yeah 24bit gives you more headroom

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

This is an indoor show, done with omnis...  but it sounds really good...

http://db.etree.org/shn/97913

Terry

[F.O.Bean]

I always thought my CA-14 CARDS better than my CA14 OMNIS. But, as always, YMMV

[newplanet7]

This is an indoor show, done with omnis...  but it sounds really good...

http://db.etree.org/shn/97913

Terry

Once again. This is an open tape where omnis actually sound like omnis.

[Hypnocracy]

Ears are Pressure Transducers as are Omni microphones...but I think ears are directional or you wouldn't know from which direction the car was coming from when you are not looking....

 

[earmonger]

Ears pick up sound from in front of you and behind you at the same volume if the source volume and distance are the same. To me, this makes ears much  more like omnis than cardioids.  The ear doesn't reject sound from any direction.

But yes, each ear does sense directional information. And the subtle differences in signals reaching each ear also help us triangulate sound location even more precisely.

It's pretty fascinating, actually. There is some high-powered processing going on in the noggin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_localization

[Gutbucket]

The overwhelming difference by far between microphones and ears is that the first is plugged into to a very simple machine which records fluctuating voltage levels and the second is inextricably connected to an unbelievably complex brain.  The differences are so vast simple comparisons with microphone directivities become nearly meaningless.

The ear doesn't reject sound from any direction.

Yet among innumerable other incredible audio tricks, the inseparable ear/brain to which the ear is connected has the ability to focus on particular sounds in any direction while ignoring others, something far beyond the capabilities of any microphone.  You are spot on about the complex processing going on good Mr. ear/brain-monger.

As for using omnis or cardioids to record outdoor music events, I think a good rule of thumb is giving preference to omnis whenever conditions allow for doing so, while keeping in mind there are many situations which may make using cardioids or supercardioids a better choice.  Hard to give a dogmatic answer to pin down those situations exactly, but therein lies the art of recording.

[aaronji]

Ears pick up sound from in front of you and behind you at the same volume if the source volume and distance are the same. To me, this makes ears much  more like omnis than cardioids.  The ear doesn't reject sound from any direction.

Whether or not sounds in front of and behind you are heard at the same volume is frequency dependent.  At 1 kHz that's basically true, but at 4 kHz, sound from behind you is attenuated by 4 or 5 dB.  Moreover, using that to suggest that ears are more like omnis neglects that the orientation of the "caps" in your ears is sideways facing, not forward facing. The on-axis response (sound coming directly from the right for your right ear) is minimally around 5 dB louder than sound coming from the opposite direction (sound coming directly from the left for your right ear).  That number can be much greater depending on frequency (~ 15 dB at 4 kHz).  And while the ear doesn't outright reject sound from any direction, it definitely attenuates sound from many directions.  Look at the polar plot I posted last time...Even the wiki you cited mentions that level differences are one way we perceive directionality.

That's talking from a purely physical standpoint.  Once you add in the post processing, well:

The overwhelming difference by far between microphones and ears is that the first is plugged into to a very simple machine which records fluctuating voltage levels and the second is inextricably connected to an unbelievably complex brain.  The differences are so vast simple comparisons with microphone directivities become nearly meaningless.

[earmonger]

Well, OK.

Human voices and the fundamental tones used in most music by most instruments are below 2K.

4K is between key 87 and key 88 of a piano.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

Which is to say we most often perceive 4K as an overtone or a whistle. Or the last flourish of a Little Richard glissando. So the ear can afford to make that high register directional because it's not usually the main thing being communicated.

And it's still not being deliberately rejected. It's being attentuated.

We have pinnae. We have the head blocking some sounds between the two ears. We have one incredible processor dealing with all the differentials of information to be gleaned from about 6 inches of distance. Not arguing with any of that.

But I still hear sounds from behind me, loud and clear. Like that saber-toothed tiger rustling in the bushes outside the cave.  The cardioids might miss that, and evolution would have turned me into lunch.

So I'm with Gutbucket on omnis in general, cards for special cases.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

This is an indoor show, done with omnis...  but it sounds really good...

http://db.etree.org/shn/97913

Terry

Once again. This is an open tape where omnis actually sound like omnis.

???Not sure what you mean???

I was just pointing out that omni/stack taping can produce nice results...  The one I pointed out was indoors, but I think it make little difference when taping that close to the stacks.  I like the idea of running two different tapes, both the same rig, both omni @ stacks...  Sounds like a fun project!

Terry

[aaronji]

Well, OK.

Human voices and the fundamental tones used in most music by most instruments are below 2K.

4K is between key 87 and key 88 of a piano.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

Which is to say we most often perceive 4K as an overtone or a whistle. Or the last flourish of a Little Richard glissando. So the ear can afford to make that high register directional because it's not usually the main thing being communicated.

Again, look at the polar pattern (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153520.msg1943529#msg1943529).  Even at 500 Hz, there is marked attenuation as you go from on-axis (90 degrees) to 0 or 180 degrees (~5 or 6 dB)...

And it's still not being deliberately rejected. It's being attentuated.

Yes, well, as per my last post:

And while the ear doesn't outright reject sound from any direction, it definitely attenuates sound from many directions.

We have pinnae. We have the head blocking some sounds between the two ears. We have one incredible processor dealing with all the differentials of information to be gleaned from about 6 inches of distance. Not arguing with any of that.

But I still hear sounds from behind me, loud and clear. Like that saber-toothed tiger rustling in the bushes outside the cave.  The cardioids might miss that, and evolution would have turned me into lunch.

Knocking down a bit of a straw man there, as I never claimed that ears were cardioid in nature, only that they aren't omnis.  However, if you did have "cardioid ears", in the usual position (facing 90 and 270 degrees), you would still hear (lower frequency) sounds from behind you just as well as sounds from in front of you..On the other hand, if your hearing was truly near coincident omni, you'd be screwed due to that sabre-tooth because you wouldn't be able to tell which bushes he was rustling around in.

Really, look at the polar plot again.  It is clearly not like an omni (and, equally clearly, not like a cardioid).  Much more directional than the one and much less so than the other.  Closer to a wide-card than the other patterns, perhaps, but really a unique entity not particularly comparable to any of the microphone patterns...

[earmonger]

I appreciate you being a technical stickler, aaronji.

I agree that the polar pattern is not omni.  As you mention, it doesn't look like any generally available cardioid mic I've seen either, though I have not done extensive research.

But on the practical question of what mics will best reproduce the concert experience,  I staunchly support omnis unless you are in a situation where you know you will need to reject a roof echo, a balcony reverb, a chatterbox crowd, etc.

Between the ear pickup pattern and the noggin processor, the hearing experience  feels omni--like that polar pattern and its mirror image (from the other ear) superimposed.  We merge the channels in our heads to provide the illusion of a stable 360-degree sound field with spatial imaging.

As you and gutbucket have pointed out, microphones just aren't that clever. 

I was at a concert last night, swiveling my head to look across a big stage and occasionally bopping along--omnis in a more fixed position on the shirt collar--and I realized that if I had had ear-mounted cardioids, the recording would have been a very seasick thing.  Maybe XY or ORTF cardioids stably mounted in a sweet spot would be good too, would eliminate that backless void I hear (or don't hear)  in front-facing cardioid recordings. Never tried it. But in the rough-and-tumble of concert recording,  I'd always go for omnis as the first choice.

[kleiner Rainer]

Hi all,

there is another factor in favor of omnis: they are much less sensitive to wind noise than cardioids. It was an eye opener for me when I started recording outdoors with a Sennheiser MKE2002 artificial head: much less wind noise!

To reach that low level of wind noise with cardioids, you have to work really hard with "dead kittens" and other furry beasts. And then there is the question of tradeoff: more wind suppression means more attenuation of the high end - a choice between the plague and cholera...

Greetings,

Rainer

[aaronji]

But on the practical question of what mics will best reproduce the concert experience,  I staunchly support omnis unless you are in a situation where you know you will need to reject a roof echo, a balcony reverb, a chatterbox crowd, etc.

Yes, well, that's a different question entirely!  Much more in the realm of subjective opinion, whereas the directionality of human hearing is considerably more objective...And, for what it's worth, I like omnis too.  They don't work for all of the people all of the time, though...

Between the ear pickup pattern and the noggin processor, the hearing experience  feels omni--like that polar pattern and its mirror image (from the other ear) superimposed.  We merge the channels in our heads to provide the illusion of a stable 360-degree sound field with spatial imaging.

The problem with that, I think, is that omnis in and of themselves won't give you much in the way of spatial imaging (at least at spacings similar to ears).  Some of the spatial cues that get you closer to how your ears hear things can be introduced (HRTF/binaural, dummy heads), but then you are altering the pick-up characteristics of the mics.  The bottom line is it is practically impossible to give a recording all of the subtle cues your brain uses to hear in three dimensions.  There was a paper posted here once, by John Willet (I think), that described how the first dummy heads were made.  Very interesting to read about the stream of complications they faced...

[Gutbucket]

But on the practical question of what mics will best reproduce the concert experience,  I staunchly support omnis unless you are in a situation where you know you will need to reject a roof echo, a balcony reverb, a chatterbox crowd, etc.

Between the ear pickup pattern and the noggin processor, the hearing experience  feels omni--like that polar pattern and its mirror image (from the other ear) superimposed.  We merge the channels in our heads to provide the illusion of a stable 360-degree sound field with spatial imaging.

The bottom line is it is practically impossible to give a recording all of the subtle cues your brain uses to hear in three dimensions.

If 'you are there' concert realism is really the goal, mulitple recording and reproduction channels gets far closer than trying to do it with only two channels of whatever microphone pattern.  In fact I've come to feel that capturing the direct/reverberant, front/back, near/far sense of enveloping depth and space is more important (and often more useful to record in a way which allows one to manage it) than Left/Right imaging.

[newplanet7]

I was at a concert last night, swiveling my head to look across a big stage and occasionally bopping along--omnis in a more fixed position on the shirt collar--and I realized that if I had had ear-mounted cardioids, the recording would have been a very seasick thing.  Maybe XY or ORTF cardioids stably mounted in a sweet spot would be good too, would eliminate that backless void I hear (or don't hear)  in front-facing cardioid recordings. Never tried it. But in the rough-and-tumble of concert recording,  I'd always go for omnis as the first choice.

The phasing happens with omnis too, albeit not as bold.
On the bolded part of your quote, are you referring to cards in an A/B fashion where you state "front facing cadioids"?
Also, just one of many situations but, say running cards onstage, what benefit would it be to hear whats in back of you?
I can't really think of me ever wanting to hear whats behind me on a recording.
Also judging by the bolded sentence, it tells me that you haven't really experimented with cardioids too much. Probably has some to do about
your preference of omnis. You need to find a great little onstage pull with cards and throw on the headphones and be set adrift.
Ahhh, here's one.  http://archive.org/details/ClubdElf2012-02-17.milab-vm44.flac16


Lastly,(thinking out loud here), both omnis and cards obviously yield great stereo concert recordings. In order for me
to fully experience/appreciate what's capable because I don't have a great playback system, I believe headphones are a must for the stereo field becoming alive.
For about two years now 80% of playback of live tapes are through headphones for me. I love 'phones

[jbou]

Not on topic, but I got lost after we started on ears 

For about two years now 80% of playback of live tapes are through headphones for me.

This is where I'm at. I don't have anything for a good two channel system. I use laptop > Fiio E10 > Audio Technica ATH-M50.

[Gutbucket]

I can't really think of me ever wanting to hear whats behind me on a recording.

I really dig having control over the balance between direct sound and room sound.  It's more basic and important to me than Left/Right soundstage balance.  Perhaps without recognizing fully what we are doing, we typically control and adjust that by choosing where to put the microphones, choosing the mic pattern and mic'ing configuration.   I often go farther and use an extra channel, two or three, facing forward and backwards to get more control and options over that.  For surround the use of those extra channels are obvious, for stereo (speakers or phones) it's a way of tweaking that all important balance between direct and room sound.  In a good room you can hear the architecture, the 3D bass bloom, the signature reverberance off the ceiling/back wall, the crowd reaction (in the correct level and timbre- not too loud, yet not muffled).  In a bad room you can limit the contribution of all those things (and yeah, I realize that often all those things are more sucky than sweet, and the goal is often to eleminate much of the suck, yet carry that line of thought to an extreme and you have a dry, lifeless SBD tape).  Basically, recording what's behind you can give you a greater sense of real-ness.. a greater sense of you are there vereses you are listening through a window... all assuming that's a good place where you want to be.

 
You need to find a great little onstage pull with cards and throw on the headphones and be set adrift.
Ahhh, here's one.  http://archive.org/details/ClubdElf2012-02-17.milab-vm44.flac16

QFT! Love onstage dElft! Serious 'you are there' mental driftage potential in many of those recordings.  I need to give that one a listen. 
Phones can be excellent teleportation time-machine portals!