Topic: Tapers: Should we be guest listed if someone asks you to tape a show

[Myco]

I agree with all of what is said here.

I'd also add, I wish fans who are not connected with the band in any way would not place ISO's for tapers just because they want a show taped. I guess it's semantics, but it always kinda peeved me a bit when the "Find a Taper" Forum is used by some random fan looking for a taper to stealth or open tape a show. Maybe I'm wrong, but I look at the "Find a Taper" forum as a place for people connected with bands to find someone to tape a show in exchange for a guest list spot or some other type of consideration, at least I that's what the intent of the forum was.

[bryonsos]

^^ Those ISOs are annoying.

Related story to GLing. My favorite local/up and coming band won a battle of the bands. They got to open for the B-52s (not taper friendly) at Koka Booth. This is where Futhur played last month, and a venue that routinely gets bigger national acts. The band asked me to tape, but didn't offer a GL spot. They assured me that I would be able to gear gear in to open tape, they were kean to have it recorded, so I agreed. I ended up buying a ticket from their manager at ~1/2 cost, but still $30. No biggie, love the band. I show up with Walstib62 unannounced, who gets the same discount from the manager. We get in through the volunteer entrance at gate time, so no line. We're setting up, and the promoter and the band's manager show up and give us VIP lanyards. Free food, free microbrews = happy tapers  They made us tear down after the set, so we of course spent the rest of night VIPing it.

[acidjack]

^^ Those ISOs are annoying.

Related story to GLing. My favorite local/up and coming band won a battle of the bands. They got to open for the B-52s (not taper friendly) at Koka Booth. This is where Futhur played last month, and a venue that routinely gets bigger national acts. The band asked me to tape, but didn't offer a GL spot. They assured me that I would be able to gear gear in to open tape, they were kean to have it recorded, so I agreed. I ended up buying a ticket from their manager at ~1/2 cost, but still $30. No biggie, love the band. I show up with Walstib62 unannounced, who gets the same discount from the manager. We get in through the volunteer entrance at gate time, so no line. We're setting up, and the promoter and the band's manager show up and give us VIP lanyards. Free food, free microbrews = happy tapers  They made us tear down after the set, so we of course spent the rest of night VIPing it.

Those are always the best kind of shows!

[ellaguru]

^^ those surprise bonuses are always the best.  especially when it involves free alcohol

....and to edit myself back on topic.  i actually dont think ive *ever* been asked to come record a show.

[page]

The only thing I have to add is if you ask me to tape, I want to be walked in early so I can get the sweet spot, sort out SBD feed etc., that's worth more to me than a $5 cover.

This.
You want me to tape, you need to make sure I don't get any hassles.

note the cables, bag, stand, oh, and that thingy around it all that says "I'm insurance against random yahoos bothering this because I have to produce something."

This was taken at a show where the band wanted to put out a live album and asked me to do it (8 tracks, you see the two main channels and stand below). This was work, and while I really like the band, it's work.

[SmokinJoe]

Most of my local clubs I walk in, they know me... if I'm there, I'm probably with the band of the night, and they don't hit me up.  But there are a couple local clubs that I know are on the edge financially, if I don't pay and they go out of business, I feel bad, so I'll pay at those clubs.  Or spend money on merch, as previously recommended.

[MSTaper]

Thanks for all the good answers, guys.

MSTaper

[newplanet7]

I agree with most of this thread and about GL taping of medium/larger sized gigs.
If it's a local band who I haven't heard and are not getting much $ I don't ask/expect/demand a guest list spot.
Usually this situation has arisen in the past when I show up to tape the headliner and the other band is either an opener or a member
of the group happens to be there as a fan and sees me taping. The said member approaches me and says something to the affect
of "we have a show coming up if you want to tape, we would appreciate it."

I don't think a $5 cover is deserving of a GL spot. That's just silly to expect one or ask for one.
I also think that it's sad if that would be the deciding factor for any taper to go or not. You either want to go and check it out and
enjoy your hobby or you decline the offer and tell them you are primping your pubes that night.
You're either interested in doing it or not. You either would go see that band out of curiosity or rather go elsewhere.
In no way for A $5 show for a local band should this be an issue.

Some are saying it's like compensation for your time and work before, during, and after the show. For a $5 show?
How much work are you guys really doing here? You're not going in and running effing sound for a $5 show.
 You will at most throw up two channel aud and pull a board, from the equipment in your sigs. You go in, set up wherever the hell you want,
get your config down and hit record. Peep the levels every now and again. Hit stop. Not a lot of work for your "hobby" eh?
Also not sure what you are doing in post that qualifies as work for a $5 show in a less than stellar bar/club.
Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

[John Willett]

The only thing I have to add is if you ask me to tape, I want to be walked in early so I can get the sweet spot, sort out SBD feed etc., that's worth more to me than a $5 cover.

Of course, that goes without saying.

You always need to arrive well before the event and not with the crowd.

[acidjack]

Some are saying it's like compensation for your time and work before, during, and after the show. For a $5 show?
How much work are you guys really doing here? You're not going in and running effing sound for a $5 show.
 You will at most throw up two channel aud and pull a board, from the equipment in your sigs. You go in, set up wherever the hell you want,
get your config down and hit record. Peep the levels every now and again. Hit stop. Not a lot of work for your "hobby" eh?
Also not sure what you are doing in post that qualifies as work for a $5 show in a less than stellar bar/club.
Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

I wouldn't necessarily go see a band I didn't like just because of a guest list spot.  But I'm in the situation where there is probably more than one band I could go see in a night - or at least, there are other shows I could go to in the week that I won't go to because I can't go to shows every single night.  So going to one band's particular show is a decision.

And really, you don't think it's work to some degree?  My time at a show I got listed for on Weds looked like this:

7pm: Rush to get home from work.
7:45pm: Leave extremely early to get to venue when told, although doors aren't until 9pm.
7:45-9:30pm: Set up, then wait around.
12pm: end
1230pm: break down

Another 2-3 hours: Mix down recording, track it, write post, edit photos, post. 

If I were not taping, my night would have looked a whole lot shorter.

I do this for fun, but it's certainly an investment of time. If you ask me to do it, you're asking me to commit a lot of time to it.

And as to the amount of the cover, I support the club by buying beer and/or food (if they have it), usually, which costs a lot more than the ticket.  And I rarely if ever record a band whose record(s) I don't own, either through iTunes, bandcamp, or buying the vinyl at the show.  In fact, that same band on Weds was nice enough to try and give me something, but I'd already paid for all the records they were selling (they only have 2 albums). Guest list spots are not something that really "costs" anyone anything because the club allots the band a certain number in advance, usually, and guest list spots are calculated out of their projected revenues before the show even happens.

That said, I am all for supporting both artists and venues financially. As I said, I'm always happy to buy a ticket and pay my way. Also, that reduces the stress if I end up having to bail - I don't "owe" anyone anything.

[Myco]

I agree with most of this thread and about GL taping of medium/larger sized gigs.
If it's a local band who I haven't heard and are not getting much $ I don't ask/expect/demand a guest list spot.
Usually this situation has arisen in the past when I show up to tape the headliner and the other band is either an opener or a member
of the group happens to be there as a fan and sees me taping. The said member approaches me and says something to the affect
of "we have a show coming up if you want to tape, we would appreciate it."

I don't think a $5 cover is deserving of a GL spot. That's just silly to expect one or ask for one.
I also think that it's sad if that would be the deciding factor for any taper to go or not. You either want to go and check it out and
enjoy your hobby or you decline the offer and tell them you are primping your pubes that night.
You're either interested in doing it or not. You either would go see that band out of curiosity or rather go elsewhere.
In no way for A $5 show for a local band should this be an issue.

Some are saying it's like compensation for your time and work before, during, and after the show. For a $5 show?
How much work are you guys really doing here? You're not going in and running effing sound for a $5 show.
 You will at most throw up two channel aud and pull a board, from the equipment in your sigs. You go in, set up wherever the hell you want,
get your config down and hit record. Peep the levels every now and again. Hit stop. Not a lot of work for your "hobby" eh?
Also not sure what you are doing in post that qualifies as work for a $5 show in a less than stellar bar/club.
Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

The time spent is worth more than $5 Todd. I don't know about you, but my time is worth more than $5 for approximately 5 hours spent in travel/gas, setup, record, breakdown, transfer, post processing (resampling/dithering/tracking), uploading. That's less than a buck an hour, more like a loss of money, so I'd say a guestlist spot is a minimum requirement if I'm "asked" to tape a show. If I "choose" to record a show on my own accord I expect no type of consideration, that's my choice. The five bucks isn't really the issue, it's the request of my time invested that would cause the expectation of at least a little consideration, that's worth even more than the $5 that I would have paid them to see them on my own accord. I also upload shows on my own schedule and seldom get them out next day or even within the same week, (as you know quite well  ), but if I'm asked to record a show & guest listed, I make time to get it right out there within 48 hrs.

[page]

Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

The time spent is worth more than $5 Todd. I don't know about you, but my time is worth more than $5 for approximately 5 hours spent in travel/gas, setup, record, breakdown, transfer, post processing (resampling/dithering/tracking), uploading. That's less than a buck an hour, more like a loss of money, so I'd say a guestlist spot is a minimum requirement if I'm "asked" to tape a show. If I "choose" to record a show on my own accord I expect no type of consideration, that's my choice. The five bucks isn't really the issue, it's the request of my time invested that would cause the expectation of at least a little consideration, that's worth even more than the $5 that I would have paid them to see them on my own accord. I also upload shows on my own schedule and seldom get them out next day or even within the same week, (as you know quite well  ), but if I'm asked to record a show & guest listed, I make time to get it right out there within 48 hrs.

and

That said, I am all for supporting both artists and venues financially. As I said, I'm always happy to buy a ticket and pay my way. Also, that reduces the stress if I end up having to bail - I don't "owe" anyone anything.

Bingo. Thats the primary reason I don't push for guestlist spot or other compensation; I'm on the hook for something. If I pay my own way, I can break down at setbreak, or not even go as I don't have to. If it's work, there are certain expectations such as (but not limited to):

• Show up before doors open to setup
• Ensure your equipment will work
• Recording takes priority over enjoyment, that includes producing a recording that does not have clipping/distortion/etc
• Tear down afterwards which can be exponential if you're doing >2 or >4 tracks
• Appropriately compress, EQ, mix, etc and evaluate those changes on a variety of listening environments
• Deliver product (whether just a final mix or the final mix and the original files, or whatever the spec is stated as) with a short turnaround time

So yeah, it's a hobby, but that's more than I do now and to do it on someone else's time scale to their specifications, I expect to be compensated. Not to the level of a professional, but I expect to get something out of it. In addition to the door charge being waved, I usually walk out with a CD of one of their albums or a tshirt or something like that (and appropriate credit on any albums produced from said material) for efforts that are above and beyond the typical "oh hey, we want you to make an audience tape of tonight's show" such as if a band wanted to do a live album or web promo download like a Christmas freebie for fans. The vast majority of the time the band will offer what I think is fair right off the bat, but we always have a clear discussion about it before anything happens. For typical GL stuff like Yarn, I see where Todd's coming from. It's bands where they contact you and you get a spec that is more than that TS.com GL audience tape, thats where I start to expect more. I see the later as more of a "mobile studio" type function and find that to be more in line a band's expectations in that sort of environment.

Always clarify this in advance, whatever you do.

[kindms]

If you asked the band to show up and play at your place they would expect to be compensated. If they show up on their own and play at your party no.

Seems to be a pretty simple way to approach the situation.

[MSTaper]

I decided to go last night and wasn't charged. I convinced two bands to get on the Archive and hopefully the third will follow. It was my first time to hear all three bands (even though I know people in all three.) Actually, I heard a four-piece version of one of the bands a couple weeks ago.

The promoter had basically asked me to come. He plays trombone in one of the bands.
Everyone was very appreciative of me taping, but I'll be tracking the shows, gathering set information, etc., to get them on archive. I'll probably be taping these guys again since they're local and I'll just address each situation on a case by case basis.
If they comp me, fine, if not, the bands are worth $5.

Also had a couple of other people thanked me for taping and others asking where the shows would be posted. I'm encouraging everyone to get on the Archive because it's easier for a lot of people that BitTorrent, which is easy if you learn it.

MSTaper

[yltfan]

Where are all these $5 shows people are talking about?