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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: asmusu2 on November 01, 2012, 04:56:24 PM
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Hi,
I have just bought a Roland R05 recorder.
Does anyone know if I can use the Chis Church ca 9100 preamp with the recorder or if it is a bad idea?
Or is it a bad idea?
Hope someone can help
Best wishes
Steen
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Hi,
I have just bought a Roland R05 recorder.
Does anyone know if I can use the Chis Church ca 9100 preamp with the recorder or if it is a bad idea?
Or is it a bad idea?
Hope someone can help
Best wishes
Steen
I use the CA UGLY Preamp with a Roland R-05 and it works great!! I believe the ca 9100 is similar.
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I use the CA UGLY Preamp with a Roland R-05 and it works great!! I believe the ca 9100 is similar.
What do you keep the R-05 recording level on when running the CA UGLY?
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Hi,
I have just bought a Roland R05 recorder.
Does anyone know if I can use the Chis Church ca 9100 preamp with the recorder or if it is a bad idea?
Or is it a bad idea?
Hope someone can help
Best wishes
Steen
Why should it be a bad idea? A great portable recorder plus a great portable preamp, add a good pair of microphones and you're set to do great recordings :) Just keep in mind to turn OFF the Plug-In Power (it's under Input Setup on the menu), as the preamp would be powering your mics already.
@JBou, I think input level is best set around 65-67 but maybe someone can correct me.
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I was afraid I would over power the microphones if I used the preamp
Best wishes
Steen
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I was afraid I would over power the microphones if I used the preamp
Best wishes
Steen
This kind of preamp is made to provide the precise amount of power than most of our microphones (not the mics that need 48V) need :)
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Power to the mics is good--it makes them less likely to overload.
Too much amplification from the preamp is not so good, because it can overload/brickwall the recording.
You probably want to go mic-->preamp-->Line-in instead of Mic-in, since Mic-in leads to the recorder's own preamp. With Line-in, you're bypassing the built-in preamp with the better, external preamp.
And you probably don't need to add too much amplification from the preamp if the concert is loud. Do some experimenting with your stereo on appropriate levels, and then lower them further when you get to the blast of a live show.
I was afraid I would over power the microphones if I used the preamp
Best wishes
Steen
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Just keep in mind to turn OFF the Plug-In Power (it's under Input Setup on the menu), as the preamp would be powering your mics already.
But since they will be using line in, this should not matter, right?
My lo-pro setup is at853>ca9100>r05, and I think it works well, and can sound very nice.
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Just keep in mind to turn OFF the Plug-In Power (it's under Input Setup on the menu), as the preamp would be powering your mics already.
But since they will be using line in, this should not matter, right?
My lo-pro setup is at853>ca9100>r05, and I think it works well, and can sound very nice.
You're righter than right, they would be going line-in and not mic-in... Yeah! Sorry :-X
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@JBou, I think input level is best set around 65-67 but maybe someone can correct me.
Thanks, thats higher than I would have guessed
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@JBou, I think input level is best set around 65-67 but maybe someone can correct me.
Thanks, thats higher than I would have guessed
It varies for me depending on the mics. I do keep the CA Ugly very close to fully amplified. CA11's are around that 65 level, but for louder music I go down into the 40's. For my other low pro mics, AT 853's, they can be as low as "1" for loud music. Since I have had great sucess keeping the CA Ugly up high, I just adjust the R-05 at each show. And I do keep a little eyeglass screwdriver in my earphone pouch, but I never have used it, although with the R-05 at "1", it was close to having to.
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As others have said there are no issues with the 9100 and the R05 you should have no issues what so ever.
Chris Church
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@JBou, I think input level is best set around 65-67 but maybe someone can correct me.
Thanks, thats higher than I would have guessed
It varies for me depending on the mics. I do keep the CA Ugly very close to fully amplified. CA11's are around that 65 level, but for louder music I go down into the 40's. For my other low pro mics, AT 853's, they can be as low as "1" for loud music. Since I have had great sucess keeping the CA Ugly up high, I just adjust the R-05 at each show. And I do keep a little eyeglass screwdriver in my earphone pouch, but I never have used it, although with the R-05 at "1", it was close to having to.
BTW, what are those tiny pots for? Like trim on a v2/v3 ???
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^^^ Gain I believe, but since I keep it up high, I never really gave it much thought. It does give me a nice recording and when acoustic, the quiet is very quiet. ;D
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@JBou, I think input level is best set around 65-67 but maybe someone can correct me.
Thanks, thats higher than I would have guessed
It varies for me depending on the mics. I do keep the CA Ugly very close to fully amplified. CA11's are around that 65 level, but for louder music I go down into the 40's. For my other low pro mics, AT 853's, they can be as low as "1" for loud music. Since I have had great sucess keeping the CA Ugly up high, I just adjust the R-05 at each show. And I do keep a little eyeglass screwdriver in my earphone pouch, but I never have used it, although with the R-05 at "1", it was close to having to.
BTW, what are those tiny pots for? Like trim on a v2/v3 ???
On the Ugly the trim pots are gain. So unmatched mics can be matched. And you can adjust gain overall gain with them as well. On my Ugly II the trim pots are actual output level of the preamp. And the 6 Position rotary switch is for gain for both Left and Right. This also allows for matching of unmatched mics. Not really an issue for my mics. But its still nice to have.
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I recorded a loud show last week and had distortion. The setup was CA14 Cards>CA9200>R05 (line in). Batteries were fresh and the level on the R05 was about 35 peaking about -12dB. I'm pretty sure I overloaded the 9200. I'm learning this pre still, so the mic input has a variable pot and the output has stepped gain. Being mostly a studio engineer, I'm used to mic preamps being the other way around with stepped inputs and a pot to trim the output going to the next device in the signal chain.
So my question is, should I run the input pot more conservatively and use the stepped output gain to reach desired levels on the R05? I think I had the input pot at maybe half, possibly more (it was dark) and the output at +10 on the CA9200.
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No I doubt you overloaded the 9200 its more likely you overloaded the R05 If you are doing loud shows I would not use more then 25 db of gain from the 9200 or else you will slam the input of the R05. You should aim for 25 db of gain from the 9200 and get the remainder from the R05. Using the record level. The problem with the level controls is you can have a situation where you have attenuated an already overloaded input by getting too much gain from the preamp anything above 25 db of gain is really for quiet shows or outdoor shows. Run the output level control on the 9200 at full.... Do not use it to attenuate the signal. Because you dont need attenuation you just need less gain from the 9200 and a bit more from your recorder to avoid overload.
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I recorded a loud show last week and had distortion. The setup was CA14 Cards>CA9200>R05 (line in). Batteries were fresh and the level on the R05 was about 35 peaking about -12dB. I'm pretty sure I overloaded the 9200. I'm learning this pre still, so the mic input has a variable pot and the output has stepped gain. Being mostly a studio engineer, I'm used to mic preamps being the other way around with stepped inputs and a pot to trim the output going to the next device in the signal chain.
So my question is, should I run the input pot more conservatively and use the stepped output gain to reach desired levels on the R05? I think I had the input pot at maybe half, possibly more (it was dark) and the output at +10 on the CA9200.
If the recording level was 35 and it was peaking at -12dB, you definitely overloaded the R-05, not the preamp. I set my input level at 60 (safer way to see if you're overloading or not) and then play with the preamp gain.
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Thanks. It's just so confusing when the meters are telling you one thing, and the recorder is receiving another. Just spoiled by meters on high end gear in the studio, going into a line level device.
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Thanks. It's just so confusing when the meters are telling you one thing, and the recorder is receiving another. Just spoiled by meters on high end gear in the studio, going into a line level device.
Yeah, studio situation and gear knowledge is not always applicable when it comes to field recording :P Nevertheless, trial and error (and lots of questions to the veterans - not that I consider myself one of them at all!) is the way to go. Happy taping! I love my R-05 and hasn't failed me once!
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Two big problems with portable recorders: their input level control is not labeled in gain/attenuation in decibels, and they like to offer post-ADC digital attenuation as a "feature". It's a bad mix, and the manuals aren't drafted with pros or semi-pros in mind, so they leave the user guessing at appropriate input levels. Shame!
What exactly is post ADC digital attenuation?
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Two big problems with portable recorders: their input level control is not labeled in gain/attenuation in decibels, and they like to offer post-ADC digital attenuation as a "feature". It's a bad mix, and the manuals aren't drafted with pros or semi-pros in mind, so they leave the user guessing at appropriate input levels. Shame!
What exactly is post ADC digital attenuation?
It's the feature on the 2nd switch (at the back of your R-05). Page 48 from the owner's manual:
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2cz3g4m.jpg)
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AGC = automatic gain control, that's a different evil.
ADC = analog-->digital converter. What can happen is a hot input clips the ADC, resulting in a hard clipped signal that peaks at 0dBFS. Then the recorder digitally attenuates that signal to -12dBFS, and its meters indicate a -12dBFS peak, so you think you have 12dB of headroom when you are already clipped.
The problem is improper metering and a useless "feature".
Damn, I got the AGC/ADC wrong, thanks for correcting me. Yeah, I didn't know what ADC was, thanks for the explanation. What an idiotic "feature"...
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Two big problems with portable recorders: their input level control is not labeled in gain/attenuation in decibels, and they like to offer post-ADC digital attenuation as a "feature". It's a bad mix, and the manuals aren't drafted with pros or semi-pros in mind, so they leave the user guessing at appropriate input levels. Shame!
Heard and heard.
Iv'e been messing with the CA9200 and the R05 levels based on Chris's and LikeAsong's advice and am getting great results, thanks to you.
Sounding especially good after ran through some outboard hardware with transformers and tubes, gently of course ;D