Topic: New to the game Recording phish

[My_Wingsuit_is_Fuego]

Hey guys I recently started taking  my zoomh4n and started recording phish shows. I want to about the set ups you guys are using to record. I am looking into upgrading to the Sound Devices 702, nomad lite, or tascam dr80. And if any of you guys have any of these recorders for sale let me know.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

1 - Check out any of the latest (past few tours) PH shows available for DL on ETREE.  You'll see the Source Lineage (how it was recorded) on all of them.
2 - Check out the Yard Sale Thread.  You may find the Recorder of your Dreams in there...
3 - Welcome!

Terry

[chinariderstl]

The recorder you choose depends on a couple things, off the top of my head, 1. Price, 2. Battery Life, 3. Portability, 4. Ease of Use.  I, personally, use (and love) the Sony PCM-M10.  When I first jumped in the game, the kind souls around here pointed me in that direction, and I couldn't be happier.  The M10 is pretty cheap (in price), but well made.  It has super long battery life (on internal AA batteries) and is super small/portable and is super easy to use.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/638090-REG/Sony_PCM_M10_BLACK_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html

Something like the M10 only has a stereo-mini line-in, so you'll need a pre-amp/battery box to power your mics.  (Another piece of hardware.)  The M10's are rarely in the Yard Sale, as they are pretty rock solid and the "go to" recorder for a lot of folks around here.  When they are, they usually go fast.

Another recommendation/option is something like the Tascam DR-100 MK II.  That little dog has stereo line-in plus a pair of XLR inputs with 48V phantom power.  So, in theory, you could plug your mics directly into that device without the need for a pre-amp.  I don't know anything about that device, but would be concerned about battery life while it provides phantom power.  A brand new one just went for $260 in the Yard Sale.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159673.0

My best recommendation, head out to the Live Music Archive on archive.org and listen, listen, listen.  You're obviously a music fan, so doing some "research," i.e.: listening to a bunch of killer shit, is hardly a painful task.  As Terry indicated, in almost every case, you'll see the lineage of the recording.  Typically Mics > Pre-amp > Recorder.  Then just Google around.

Hope this helps.... and welcome aboard! 

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

As Terry indicated, in almost every case, you'll see the lineage of the recording.  Typically Mics > Pre-amp > Recorder.  Then just Google around.

If you need help deciphering anything, let us know...  Some one the language used can be Greek to a noob...

Terry

[NOLAfishwater]

Tell us your budget as there is a big difference in the recorders you mentioned. With a budget we can work backwards with mics first.

[LikeASong]

Tell us your budget as there is a big difference in the recorders you mentioned. With a budget we can work backwards with mics first.

I think he means Tascam 680 and not "80" as we (mis-)wrote. Otherwise it doesn't have much sense I think, because as you mention there's a huge difference in their price tags (somewhere around $600 for the Tascam, 1500-2000 for the SD and 3500-4000 for the Nomad, if I'm not wrong).

[My_Wingsuit_is_Fuego]

i Just ordered the 2 sets of MXL 990/991....as of right now i am planing on pluging my mics into my zoom h4n and recording that way.  thanks for the input guys as soon as the new year comings I think i am going to get the tascam 680 which has everything that i need for what i can afford. I only have about $800 dollars to spend right now.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

i Just ordered the 2 sets of MXL 990/991....as of right now i am planing on pluging my mics into my zoom h4n and recording that way.  thanks for the input guys as soon as the new year comings I think i am going to get the tascam 680 which has everything that i need for what i can afford. I only have about $800 dollars to spend right now.

I got into taping b/c I saw a fantastic show and didn't come away with a tape.  I figured it was time to do the job myself...

For PH, I have to say that there are plenty of super high quality AUDs going around and that investing in a rig for just that purpose is pointless - equally HQ Source will circulate...  But for your local show from some random band...  Now that is a big difference!  You may be the only one taping!

I would suggest taking your rig to local shows and taping often.  Taping PH is a great "goal", but you'll be chasing your tail forever.  With Super-Tapers on the scene, and with Live Phish providing all the shows, there is really no point.  Just DL the stuff. 

But for local shows, you may end up taping something glorious/historical/awesome b/c you were the only one there.  I ended up taping a lot of really great stuff when I decided to take my rig and "practice" taping...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that (IMO) you should tape stuff that wouldn't normally get taped.  PH is covered...  Your local shows may not be...

And welcome!!! 

Terry

[My_Wingsuit_is_Fuego]

I see what your saying t-watts....I am also work in TV and Film as an editor so purchasing a nice rig is in my interest b/c while I am not taping Phish or other shows that I go to I want to be able to rent out my rig. Taping for me is a hobby I only really send my recording to my Phish family and anyone who e-mails me and ask. Quality for my ears are a must as I have downloaded others recordings from others and not have not been to impressed. I also like to mix my recordings with the live phish recordings.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

If your main goal is to record Phish and other bands that only allow AUD recordings I'd scratch the DR-680 (and I own one) and spend the vast majority of your money on mics. The ONLY reason I'd run my 680 at Phish was if I planned on running my cards and omni mics together. Honestly with all the rigs at most Phish shows it isn't worth the effort to run 4 channels (at least for me). The only reason I own the 680 is for the occasional band that gives me whatever feeds I want (SBD+AUD). More often than not, I run my {mics} > Tinybox > M10 rig which is repulsively small and sounds great.

Ideally you get smaller mics to run FOB (Front of board) so you have the option to run where it will sound the best. Phish seems to have given up on the FOB scene and just lets us run up there (as long as we behave).

The Naiant Tinybox is a good inexpensive option for a preamp. Sony M10 is the "defacto" small 2 channel recorder (more reliable, better sound and better battery life than the Zoom. For those 2 items you're talking $500-ish.

http://www.naiant.com/naiant/microphoneamplifiers.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/638090-REG/Sony_PCM_M10_BLACK_PCM_M10_Portable_Audio_Recorder.html

That leaves you $300 to upgrade your mics (or $550 if you keep the Zoom)...personally I'd open a savings account and keep saving. $300/$550 isn't going to get you much worthwhile.

Best inexpensive option for Phish like bands (IMO) are the Busman BCS2's. Small with all the caps you could possibly want. They certainly aren't the best mics out there...but for the $$ they can't be beat. I know there are sources from Dick's last year with the Busmans that sound fantastic.

http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc2.htm

As far as mixing your source with the Live Phish source...I say go for it, but you'll need some software to do that (The 680 won't help, if that was your plan with it). I prefer Wavelab for mixing sources after the fact. It takes a little work to get the 2 sources synced up, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy.

[stevetoney]

^ Agreed.  Since you mention that quality is your concern, the typical recommendation made on ts.com is to start with mics and work backwards towards your recorder.  In terms of sound quality, the importance diminishes in that direction.  So invest heaviest in your mics, then preamp, then recorder.  It's OK to start from the recorder end too, but you said you have a limited budget, so you can still get great recordings in your budget if you approach it right.  If you put all your cheese in the recorder, you might end up disappointed, especially when you consider that the sound of a recording made with...say a Sony M10 will sound pretty much identical to that obtained with a more expensive 680.