Topic: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder

[breakonthru]

no matter what the other differences are, the f3 isn't "larger", it's significantly larger.  And has significantly worse battery life.

Depends what youre into. I would probably never use F3 in a situation where I didnt need either phantom or the ability to take a hot sbd feed. I see tapers using F3 with unbalanced stealth rigs as if its some improvement and don't get it. if you can get all your gear in and run it yet dont know your gear well enough to lean on (what is essentially a crutch) of 32 bit to capture your data, you're probably missing the mark. The only time i ever use 32bit float on the devices i have is if its completely unattended which is not the case with gear on your body. adjusting levels is as fundamental as ensuring you remembered to press record, methinks.

[Gutbucket]

I'm interested in this for a specific application, but will be waiting for test reports from other users to determine if it will actually be capable of doing what I need, which is recording 4 to 6 channels using 2 or 3 of these units in combination, with centralized remote control and sync.

Other than sufficient powering and SINAD to accommodate a pair of DPA CORE 4060 [the baseline go/no-go performance metric for me], the critical functionality for my use will be if two or three of them can be sufficiently sync'd and controlled while in pocket, using the software below or something equivalent to it installed on my phone..

seems you can control the units with this software

https://www.sidus.link/sidusAudio/software

The goal is replacing: 4 X 4060 > 4 channel CA-UGLY2 > DR2d.   I need at least 4, or better 6 channels (modular addition good), operable from a single control.  I would much prefer all 4-6 channels to a single recorder, but there is nothing small enough capable of that.   Given the elimination of an external preamp or bat box, I can deal with 2 or 3 of these units in pocket, which shoud be no larger than CA-UGLY2 > DR2d, and probably somewhat better form wise.

Control and sync will be the key.

If you come across reviews which include sync control of multiple units, please post a link.  Thanks.

[Gutbucket]

FYI to further the conversation, I've also been thinking of picking up an F3 for soundboard / 2nd small 2ch phantom rig use.

Different use case, different feature set, different horses for courses.

[Rairun]

no matter what the other differences are, the f3 isn't "larger", it's significantly larger.  And has significantly worse battery life.

Depends what youre into. I would probably never use F3 in a situation where I didnt need either phantom or the ability to take a hot sbd feed. I see tapers using F3 with unbalanced stealth rigs as if its some improvement and don't get it. if you can get all your gear in and run it yet dont know your gear well enough to lean on (what is essentially a crutch) of 32 bit to capture your data, you're probably missing the mark. The only time i ever use 32bit float on the devices i have is if its completely unattended which is not the case with gear on your body. adjusting levels is as fundamental as ensuring you remembered to press record, methinks.

The 32-bit float part here is just not true? I've seen it repeated here several times that 24-bit has more than high enough dynamic range not to be a problem in itself, and this IS true - but only if you have multiple ADCs to go along with it. The truth of the matter is that depending on the type of music you like, taping shows is too unpredictable for you to nail your gain settings for every part of the show. I can record a quiet song with no apparent preamp noise using a quality preamp's higher gain setting (EIN gets higher the higher gain you use); I can also record a louder song by dialling the gain down (EIN decreases, but this doesn't really matter because the signal is strong compared to the preamp's noise floor). What I can't do is use the low gain setting for BOTH sections of music (the only option we have when we don't know when they're coming), and expect the less-than-ideal staging for the quiet parts to sound good. Of course this is only really relevant if you're using compression or amplifying certain songs in post, but some bands really do get that loud AND that quiet, and it's a terrible experience to listen back without narrowing the dynamic range.

The entire point of these 32-bit float devices is that they have multiple ADCs that attain good gain staging for ALL parts of the music. The issue was never the noise floor inherent to the 24 bit format (which exists, but is too quiet to matter). The issue is clipping when you're trying to optimise your analogue gain for the quietest sounds you're trying record. A Zoom F3 bypasses this issue altogether, which is why people are so fond of using it. It isn't simply a crutch. Are you seriously adjusting your analogue gain mid song all the time? Unless you know exactly what's coming, that's not practical, and the level differences you get by doing it by hand are very annoying to fix in post.

I say this as someone who doesn't have an F3. If it had a minijack input, or a longer battery life, I'd go for it in a heartbeat.

[adrianf74]

no matter what the other differences are, the f3 isn't "larger", it's significantly larger.  And has significantly worse battery life.

Lol.  Christ, I had a WM-D3 back in the day and a TCD-D7 as well. The F3 doesn't phase me.

Battery life, even with P48 on, can be between 3.5h with IKEA Ladda batteries... If you use Energizer Lithium batteries, you can double that. Plenty for my needs.

[breakonthru]

The 32-bit float part here is just not true?

I'm thinking you missed the part where they revised the specs that the unit no longer does 32-bit float when used for 2 channel recording? single channel 32-bit float recorders with 5V power for lavs have existed for awhile (Tentacle Track E) so the PR2 doesnt break any ground in that regard.

In regard to the rest of the gain-ranging discussion, id have to respectfully disagree with your take. Weve already seen some units like the zoom raise the noise floor when switching ADCs (something that it seems most people agree is inconsequential to our use). In the same manner, the "wide dynamic range" of the zoom series is really limited to +4 on the top end (and the typical modern input approaching -130dB EIN. When you switch it from mic to line in to allow for hotter signals it just throws a pad on and you lose ~20dB of dynamic range. I have yet to see a single measurement that shows a 32-bit float recording offering increased dynamic range over a 24-bit counterpart, as all the 32 bit equipment ive measured or seen tested (admittedly only zoom and SD) has a dynamic range that fits easily inside the 144dB 24bit container.

for audience recording purposes a 24-bit recording has limited use over a 16-bit recording as were usually working with 60-70 dB dynamic range at most between crowd noise/wind/hvac/etc

In this case i just dont see 32bit float being at all useful for a device with 90dB SINAD, let alone the (presumably) cleaner zoom and SD units (which have all been tested and shown to have marginal inputs at best to save to 32-bit). yeah it might save your recording if you blow your levels, but you know what else will... a 24 bit recording peaking at -12dB

[Datfly]

FYI to further the conversation, I've also been thinking of picking up an F3 for soundboard / 2nd small 2ch phantom rig use.

Different use case, different feature set, different horses for courses.

I've used my F3 to plug into a handful of boards and it's great to not worry about checking it while I video.
I have also noticed at several venues the USB Thumb drive mix, my main mix if available, differs from the XLR SBD mix.

[breakonthru]

I can record a quiet song with no apparent preamp noise using a quality preamp's higher gain setting (EIN gets higher the higher gain you use); I can also record a louder song by dialling the gain down (EIN decreases, but this doesn't really matter because the signal is strong compared to the preamp's noise floor). What I can't do is use the low gain setting for BOTH sections of music (the only option we have when we don't know when they're coming), and expect the less-than-ideal staging for the quiet parts to sound good. Of course this is only really relevant if you're using compression or amplifying certain songs in post, but some bands really do get that loud AND that quiet, and it's a terrible experience to listen back without narrowing the dynamic range.

this is all simple to do in post, without any guessing. As you mentioned, you raise the noise floor when you raise the gain in the field. thats fixed to your mic self noise and room noise, all of which gets amplified whether you do it in real time or post.