Topic: schoeps CCM4/5 thoughts?

[Nick's Picks]

any difference in sound over the straight dope cmc6/kc5/mk4/5 ?

too bad they dont make a ccm6 !

also, whats a pair of these bad larry's run?

[jerryfreak]

according to schoeps, they sound identical

they are not so common on the used market, and for that reason, are $$$

but, if you are buying new, its comparable in cost to cmc6's + caps + pair of kc5 actives.

major complaint with most tapers is that you cant interchange the capsules.

any difference in sound over the straight dope cmc6/kc5/mk4/5 ?

too bad they dont make a ccm6 !

also, whats a pair of these bad larry's run?

[timP]

i've only witnessed live 1 pair once at ABB Borgata 2003, but have jonesed for them often since

guy came in late and set up quick (i was running ADK TLs at the time)

asked him what they were and he said ccm4s..
he was running them into a D-modUA5>M1

said the whole rig was what the dealer he bought it from recommended...

they were Small,  just a touch larger then the kcy>collete/cap regular set up/                       hazy memories

[DSatz]

The sound is identical. The capsules are absolutely the same; the entire acoustic design is the same. The circuitry isn't identical--it's (obviously) miniaturized--but it's designed along the same lines as the full-sized CMC 6-- (very low impedance, class A, balanced and truly symmetrical--both modulation lines are actively driven) so it interacts with preamps, etc., as the CMC 6-- would do. The CCM circuitry has the same specs as far as powering and all audible and measurable aspects of performance are concerned.

The down side is that it's not modular, so if you buy a pair of CCM 4s and later decide that you also want omnis, supercardioids or figure-8s, you'd be buying the same circuitry twice--and that ain't cheap. On the positive side, in extreme situations CCMs are more RF-resistant than capsules on active cables.

--best regards

[jerryfreak]

nope, balanced

The sound is identical. The capsules are absolutely the same; the entire acoustic design is the same. The circuitry isn't identical--it's (obviously) miniaturized--but it's designed along the same lines as the full-sized CMC 6-- (very low impedance, class A, balanced and truly symmetrical--both modulation lines are actively driven) so it interacts with preamps, etc., as the CMC 6-- would do. The CCM circuitry has the same specs as far as powering and all audible and measurable aspects of performance are concerned.

Are the cables in the CCM unbalanced?  I recall seeing pin 3 grounded to pin 1 in the pair I looked at.

[PH]

I own the CCM5's, which they aren't making anymore. At least for the US market.
I bought mine 5 years ago before the dollar bottomed out and the prices went up.
I can honestly say that they are my favorite mics I've ever owned. They are so versatile that you can use them for any app.
I do a lot of acoustic stuff at the Station Inn here in Nashville and putting them onstage is a breeze and it's such a low-profile setup that the band usually forgets they are even there.

The omni setting is awesome, there are a few Telluride sets I ran that way floating around from 2005. 20' splits FOB.
AKUS, McFerrin, Bela Clarke Ponty Trio. Those are some of my favorite tapes I've ever made.

I use them in the studio as well, they always start a conversation with the players about how cool and small they are. Once they hear them, they usually want a pair, until they hear the price.....  I agree about the CCM6, wish that was possible. I also agree about switching caps and such but I thought the CCM5's were perfect for that because I just couldn't see myself needing hypers since I usually tape stuff in small rooms where I can get close to the source.

It's really cool to be able to just leave them on the ORTF bar and bundle up the cable and that's it. Super small setup, and very sturdy too.
I would much rather have the CCM4's over anything else except the MK6's. If I ever buy new caps, those are it.

Nice post Satz.
Cheers, Phil

[PH]

Hey Satz, here's a question for you.....
  Schoeps doesn't encourage this, but I have been thinking of trying it. What if you ran the mk5/CCM5 on the in between setting, would it actually produce a sub-card or just a limited version of either pattern? I'm suprised to say that I haven't ever tried it, but have thought many times of a sub-card. It really is the best of both Schoeps worlds. From the design, it should theoretically work but something tells me it's not that simple.
Cheers, Phil

[it-goes-to-eleven]

nope, balanced

Odd.  I wonder why the pair I saw were unbalanced..

[DSatz]

Replies to various remarks or questions that people have posted:

• The CCM 5 (two-pattern) compact microphone is available in the U.S. as everywhere else. It's definitely on the U.S. distributor's price list. But I see that one prominent dealer's Web site says that there is no such microphone; I'll contact him about that.
  
  Maybe what's confusing is that there are two flavors of every other type of CCM--one with an attached XLR cable and one with a detachable XLR cable (the latter arrangement being necessary for certain mounting arrangements, and preferable in some others). Because of the capsule's slight extra length, the CCM 5 is made only in the arrangement with detachable cable, i.e. as a "CCM 5 L" rather than as a "CCM 5 U". Actually I don't fully understand that rationale, but that's why I'm me and they're them.
  
  
• The output of any CCM is balanced. If someone rewired the cable in the way you described, it would short-circuit half of the phantom powering to that microphone. That isn't the right way to connect a CCM- or CMC-series microphone to an unbalanced input, so the whole story is rather mysterious.
  
  
• With the two- or three-pattern capsules or their CCM counterparts, the behavior when the pattern selector is in an "in-between" state will not, unfortunately, fall between the two indicated definite patterns. Instead, it will be completely unpredictable and screwy (that's the technical term for it). Definitely go ahead and experiment with this, since it won't cause any harm to the capsule, but you'll soon find that it doesn't do what you're hoping for.
  
  Again I say "unfortunately" because I dearly love to record with wide cardioids when the acoustics of a situation allow it, and it would be wonderful if the MK 5 capsule (omni and cardioid) had a "secret" wide cardioid setting, like an Easter egg in a DVD or video game. Unfortunately that isn't the case.
  
  

--best regards

[Frank in JC]

The sound is identical.

Seriously?  I can understand that the circuit could be schematically identical, but wouldn't it use different, smaller, components?  The CCM4 is definitely on my list of mics to consider, but I was concerned Schoeps might have cut some corners relative to the MK4>CMC6 to fit everything in a much smaller space.  How nice could its tiny capacitors be?  I'd be surprised to see anything but surface-mounts in there.

Sounds a little too good to be true, but great news if it is... thanks!

[Nick's Picks]

i'm a few cable orders away from being able to afford a pair...
so i'll report back.  i'm sure they will kick ass.

[dennisrtyler]

i'm a few cable orders away from being able to afford a pair...
so i'll report back.  i'm sure they will kick ass.

awwww shit. you go Nick!

[Nick's Picks]

well...i've never actually "owned" schoeps gear.  run it a few times.
I guess I need the experience.

[-Q-]

i love my CCM4's run them with my Areco when stealth and made many a kick ass tape with them.if your looking to be low pro these are the shit.
i run them with a mini-me on a stand,bass can be a little bit of a problem but i'd buy them again in a heartbeat

[Nick's Picks]

I plan on running them into my Apogee MMP > Korg MR1
when lowpro, it'll be my hacked denecke PS2>MR1