Topic: Want To Buy DPA Mics 4060's VS. 4061's Looking For Your Thoughts

[ChicagoBlues]

Hi,

I am looking to move up to/buy a pair of DPA mics for use when recording mostly loud blues & rock shows. I currently use SP-CMC-8's, Sonic Studios DSM6, a Rode NT4, and AKG 414's & 460's when needed. (Both sets of AKG's were owned Rick B, famous Chicago taper like me. lol  He used to record many of his Chicago shows of old like his Pink Floyd 87 shows with these mics. I bought them many years ago and used the 414'S & 460'S on tour with the DEAD for many years. Both pairs are for sale and will be posted here)

From reading about DPA mics, it seems that the 4060's are better for louder blues shows, rock shows than the 4061's. I see that that many tapers use the Tinybox for the mics and then to their recorder. All your thoughts, comments and suggestions on the best DPA mics and best stealth setup with the DPA's would be greatly appreciated. I would prefer a used matched pair to save a few dollars, but could buy new.

Thanks

[yates7592]

In general people here tend to use 4060's for quieter stuff and 4061's for louder stuff. You describe your music as "loud blues and rock shows", not sure where that sits, maybe somewhere in the middle? I doubt you would need a preamp (TB or CA) with 4060's, they put out a fairly high signal alone. I think a battery box would be best with the 4060's, unless you're taping reallyquiet shows. I also use 4061's with only a battery box, but that's always for loud / v.loud stuff and I know several folk who use preamps with 4061's. Your recorder will also have an influence on your decision. If it can take a hot signal then 4060's may well be the best way to go, but if max input level is not that high then 4061's would be better IMO.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I used to have the 4060's and recorded some pretty loud shows with no issues.

Are you hard set on the DPA's or do you have any other options in mind?

I have run:

4060's
Countryman B3
Nevaton MCE400

All have their good points and bad points.

Overall I like the Nevatons the best. They seem to be the most versitile

The 4060's were the best when it sounded really good. Not so good when you weren't in the sweet spot.

B3's are nice, but I don't like them as much for loud shows. They are fantastic for quiet stuff though. I've only run them with a battery box though. Maybe a preamp would help with louder shows.

[stevetoney]

Were you aware that you can now purchase active cables through a member here on ts.com that allows your AKG capsules to be used without any bodies?  Many happy users here so far.  I'm pretty sure a number of these are using their active setup straight into a tinybox.

[ChicagoBlues]

Thanks for the replies and comments. It has helped me as I look more into the mics and my options.

I started to look at the Nevaton MCE400 (that I never really heard of before) and have a few questions. Are the capsules bigger than those of the DPA 4060's?
They appear to be from the pictures I saw but cant tell.

If I were to buy a pair of DPA's new, is there any advantage as compared to an older used pair of DPA's?   besides price


Thanks

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

The Nevaton's are bigger than the DPA's.  I'd day roughly 2x as large as the DPA caps. They are still small, but if you're looking for ultra small the DPA's are what you are looking for. Personally I have no issues with the size of the Nevaton's.

The B3's are roughly the same size as the DPA's. Value wise I prefer the B3's. Cost is no object wise I prefer the DPA's. Both are great, but the DPA's cost more for a reason.

[acidjack]

^ Many used DPAs are beat to hell, either from Broadway use or from people mis-wiring them. Most sets on eBay are Broadway mics. They go cheap, and they are pretty durable mics, but the likelihood of issues is much, much higher with those than ones used by a taper.

The new ones come with microdot connectors. You are much better leaving them on there and having someone build you something that lets you continue using that connector than having them rewired badly. That said, Chris Church re-wired mine to stereo mini plug and they have worked great. However, he only had to do that because I bought a pair that had been poorly wired to a mini plug by someone else first.

[fmaderjr]

The new ones come with microdot connectors. You are much better leaving them on there and having someone build you something that lets you continue using that connector than having them rewired badly. That said, Chris Church re-wired mine to stereo mini plug and they have worked great. However, he only had to do that because I bought a pair that had been poorly wired to a mini plug by someone else first.

If you want them rewired Chris Church or darktrain (and maybe tgakidis-not sure if he does that or not) can do it with no worries about them not being done right. If rewired to a mini-plug they will be a bit less bulky than using a microdot to mini-plug adapter.

[ChicagoBlues]

After reading about all the mics, they all look great but I am leaning towards, and will probably get the DPA microphones. I am very intrigued by the Nevaton mics thoough.

I was looking at the Core Sound HEB package. Is that a good package to get? Are there better options then the HEB? What are they?



Thanks

[Phil Zone]

Hi,

 Both pairs are for sale and will be posted here)


Thanks

If you have any capsules you would sell for those 460s I'd be interested in buying them.

[yates7592]

I've never used the HEB set but I seem to remember several people on here warning against it, based I think on cost and service issues. As Acidjack said, you're better off buying new, or from a trusted taper, and leaving the microdots on. Get a Y-cable microdot to miniplug adaptor from Chris Church, or use the DPA 48V phantom adaptors, or go direct into the DPA power pack. Either is pricey (although the adaptors come with the DPA stereo kit) but keeps your options open down the line and also helps re-sale value. I think the Y-cable is like 80 EUR/GBP.

[ChicagoBlues]

I've never used the HEB set but I seem to remember several people on here warning against it, based I think on cost and service issues. As Acidjack said, you're better off buying new, or from a trusted taper, and leaving the microdots on. Get a Y-cable microdot to miniplug adaptor from Chris Church, or use the DPA 48V phantom adaptors, or go direct into the DPA power pack. Either is pricey (although the adaptors come with the DPA stereo kit) but keeps your options open down the line and also helps re-sale value. I think the Y-cable is like 80 EUR/GBP.

Assuming I buy the DPA's new, what are the best places to buy them to assure they are a properly matched pair?

Also, Would the Naiant Tinybox work well for the DPA's? Pro's Con's of doing so?

Sorry bout all the questions, the mics are not cheap and I want t be an informed consumer.

Thanks

[MIQ]

ChiBlues,

One easy way to get a matched pair is to buy the matched pair kit offered by DPA. It's not cheap but you get a properly matched pair along with a bunch of accessories including the P48 XLR adaptors mentioned earlier. The kit is called SMK 4060 or 4061 depending on which flavor (sensitivity) of mic you want.  SMK stands for stereo mic kit. The kit is available from several sources like B&H and Sweetwater etc. Retailers that sell DPA mics will be able to get them for you. A quick Google search for DPA SMK 4060 will get you many options.  Check them out. It sounds like the SMK kit is what you are looking for.

Miq

[mysticeyes]

I've used both 4090's and 4061's within the past year.
The 4090's have the same capsules as 4060's, except they're housed in pencil bodies and are hardwired to XLR connectors that can be plugged into 48v power. Oh yeah, they supposedly have slightly different grids that sound more neutral than either the low-boost or high-boost grids for the 4060/4061's. The 4061's, wired to microdots, came in an SMK4061 box that includes 48v adapters, among other (very) useful bits such as clips and boundary mounts.
I use a Littlebox when I run two channels, or a Roland R-44 when I need three or four inputs, usually when I have one of my DPA pairs spread out and one or two directional mics in the middle. I am quite happy with the sound quality of any of the small DPA omnis that I've tried.
I record amplified music in small clubs or outdoors and, since I know the bands, my mics are always on stage or right in front of the stage, no more than 10-12 feet from the bass and guitar amps but usually closer. I don't record big stacks in stadiums or large venues; for those situations, I'd probably use cardioids or hypers. For what I do, however, I haven't had any problems with the more sensitive capsules in the 4090's. I think that 4060's do just fine with loud music unless you stick them inches from absurdly loud woofers being driven to inhumanly high levels, but that scenario doesn't exist with the kind of rock and blues bands that I tape. The 4060/4090's are also useful for softer acoustic music. If I were you, I'd go for 4060's in a kit. I got my SMK4061 set for $500 from a European ebayer who had several to sell at the time. This was just a little more than the price of a pair of 4060's or 4061's by themselves but had two advantages. One, I think that the capsules are matched when they come in a kit. Two, an SMK, if bought second hand, has likely been used by a taper and so has not been painted over, drowned in sweat, trampled on or otherwise abused in a theatrical environment .

[Church-Audio]

I've used both 4090's and 4061's within the past year.
The 4090's have the same capsules as 4060's, except they're housed in pencil bodies and are hardwired to XLR connectors that can be plugged into 48v power. Oh yeah, they supposedly have slightly different grids that sound more neutral than either the low-boost or high-boost grids for the 4060/4061's. The 4061's, wired to microdots, came in an SMK4061 box that includes 48v adapters, among other (very) useful bits such as clips and boundary mounts.
I use a Littlebox when I run two channels, or a Roland R-44 when I need three or four inputs, usually when I have one of my DPA pairs spread out and one or two directional mics in the middle. I am quite happy with the sound quality of any of the small DPA omnis that I've tried.
I record amplified music in small clubs or outdoors and, since I know the bands, my mics are always on stage or right in front of the stage, no more than 10-12 feet from the bass and guitar amps but usually closer. I don't record big stacks in stadiums or large venues; for those situations, I'd probably use cardioids or hypers. For what I do, however, I haven't had any problems with the more sensitive capsules in the 4090's. I think that 4060's do just fine with loud music unless you stick them inches from absurdly loud woofers being driven to inhumanly high levels, but that scenario doesn't exist with the kind of rock and blues bands that I tape. The 4060/4090's are also useful for softer acoustic music. If I were you, I'd go for 4060's in a kit. I got my SMK4061 set for $500 from a European ebayer who had several to sell at the time. This was just a little more than the price of a pair of 4060's or 4061's by themselves but had two advantages. One, I think that the capsules are matched when they come in a kit. Two, an SMK, if bought second hand, has likely been used by a taper and so has not been painted over, drowned in sweat, trampled on or otherwise abused in a theatrical environment .

I had a 4091 that Bruce sent me from DPA I compared it to the 4007 not much of a comparison but the 4090 91 are still great mics. But really useful for measurements more than recording I found them harsh. I guess it was the body and that grill making them very flat sounding.

[Church-Audio]

Hi,

I am looking to move up to/buy a pair of DPA mics for use when recording mostly loud blues & rock shows. I currently use SP-CMC-8's, Sonic Studios DSM6, a Rode NT4, and AKG 414's & 460's when needed. (Both sets of AKG's were owned Rick B, famous Chicago taper like me. lol  He used to record many of his Chicago shows of old like his Pink Floyd 87 shows with these mics. I bought them many years ago and used the 414'S & 460'S on tour with the DEAD for many years. Both pairs are for sale and will be posted here)

From reading about DPA mics, it seems that the 4060's are better for louder blues shows, rock shows than the 4061's. I see that that many tapers use the Tinybox for the mics and then to their recorder. All your thoughts, comments and suggestions on the best DPA mics and best stealth setup with the DPA's would be greatly appreciated. I would prefer a used matched pair to save a few dollars, but could buy new.

Thanks

Get the 4061 if you are going to get mics you dont want overload use a 9v battery box or better yet a preamp and you should be set for all your recording for the type of stuff you do. The 4060 will overload in some situations. And you wont know it until you get the recording home and listen.

[phil_er_up]

Hi CB,

I bought the DPA4060 kit and have run them with my little box. I have put the 4060 on stage with a loud reggae band and they did hit max SPL. Though from our normal taping situations farther back in the venue never had them hit max SPL. Check http://www.sweetwaveaudio.com/ for prices. Sometimes there are cheaper then the advertize price on the web. Though you need to call them. I live close to their location and have picked up many items there...

http://www.sweetwaveaudio.com/sales/microphones/3387-dpa-smk4060.html

Good luck.

Patrick

[ilduclo]

I have good luck with 4061's and a 9v bb (have both Church and Sound Pros versions) to a 24 bit recorder. Works for both quiet acoustic and loud amplified sets. 

[Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)]

> From reading about DPA mics, it seems that the 4060's are better for louder blues shows, rock shows than the 4061's.

Both will handle high sound pressure levels, but the 4061s put out a lower level signal, so they are less likely to overload the mic pre-amps in your recorder than the 4060s. For recording loud music, we strongly recommend the 4061s.

These days, with these mics and with most recorders, you don't need an external pre-amp. Modern recorders' internal mic preamps match the self-noise spec of the DPAs well, and you won't gain anything by using an external pre.

Our High End Binaural mic set (HEBs - using the 4060x-series mics) are very tightly matched for binaural use. We match them tighter than DPA's matched pairs. And our HEB battery box is quite a bit more rugged than DPA's own now-discontinued battery box.

Read more about the HEBs here: http://www.core-sound.com/bk/1.php

We see lots of second-hand mics bought on eBay come through our shop. Some are okay but many of them are really beat. And it's rare that we get a pair that match, even if you stretch the meaning of "matched".

[ChicagoBlues]

To Len, Chris and everyone else who gave me there experienced input.. THANK YOU

Looks like I will be going to get a pair of DPA 4061's. That is what I was wanting to get but you guys reaffirmed that decision for me.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.!


Dave