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Author Topic: Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"  (Read 3056 times)

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Offline xratedpez

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Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"
« on: April 08, 2009, 04:47:35 PM »
So I've been searching for some time and can't find the answer.

How can I run my AKG 391 > Denecke PS-2 > Edirol R-09 (or any other portable recorder that accepts ONLY analog 1/8" miniplug)??

I've read time and time again, converting (2) XLR out from the PS-2 down to a 1/8" stereo jack is UNBalanced and risky (and may not work at all, depending on the mics).

So what's the correct way to do it?  There has to be thousands of people out there doing this.

Also, when all is said and done, will this input to the R-09 MIC or Line In jack?

Thanks a million, as always everyone.

nameloc01

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Re: Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 06:10:47 PM »
You have to get a dual xlr>mini plug cable ...or a PS2 with the mini plug line out mod. And yes,they will not be balanced. It will probably be okay, but technically there's a chance it could cause an issue of some sort.

nameloc01

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Re: Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 06:12:27 PM »
Unless you are taping extremely soft music or just voices, like a lecture....run line in.

Offline digifish_music

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Re: Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 11:25:35 PM »
So I've been searching for some time and can't find the answer.

How can I run my AKG 391 > Denecke PS-2 > Edirol R-09 (or any other portable recorder that accepts ONLY analog 1/8" miniplug)??

I've read time and time again, converting (2) XLR out from the PS-2 down to a 1/8" stereo jack is UNBalanced and risky (and may not work at all, depending on the mics).

So what's the correct way to do it?  There has to be thousands of people out there doing this.

Also, when all is said and done, will this input to the R-09 MIC or Line In jack?

Thanks a million, as always everyone.

With a cable like this...(on the left into the ART Phantom II)



There are two possible configurations for the cable, you should contact the manufacturer of your phantom supply to ask about the best pin configuration to go from balanced to unbalanced.

See this post...

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108569.msg1450813.html#msg1450813

digifish
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 11:30:58 PM by digifish_music »
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 11:30:25 PM »
pez, I need to say with all due respect that unfortunately, most of the answers that have been given here are incorrect because they assume that there is one type of adapter or way of connecting the microphones that works for any and all microphones. Given the variety of output circuits used in microphones, that's simply impossible. Probably the single most widely applicable technique would be to use transformers, but you may well prefer some other approach.

Phantom powering is defined for balanced microphones and cables only. That is the standard (DIN EN 61938)--it relies on having two audio leads per microphone that are electrically independent of the cable shield. So the phantom powering would be no different from usual: You'd connect the balanced outputs of your microphones via balanced cables to the balanced inputs of the phantom power supply.

The next part is where things get dodgy: unbalancing the signal at the inputs to your recorder. The only approach that always works is to use transformers. Unfortunately the good ones (Jensen, Lundahl, possibly Beyer) aren't cheap, but they will certainly do the job; not only will they unbalance the signals nicely, but they'll also protect the inputs of your recorder from the 48 Volts DC which may very well be present at the output of your phantom power supply.

Other than that, you'd really have to ask AKG what works best (or what works at all) for your particular series of microphone. Sometimes it's best to ground pin 2 and use pin 3; on the other hand that sometimes gives you nothing but a scratchy, far-away signal, so you ground pin 3 and use pin 2 instead--but then sometimes that will damage the microphone or cause it to distort at far lower sound pressure levels than it could normally handle, so you might use pin 2 and leave pin 3 "floating" (unconnected) but some times it's the other way around. Sometimes resistors and capacitors are recommended. Each type of microphone output circuit has different requirements, or have I mentioned that already?

The penalty for using a generic approach is that some microphones will give you no signal (or very, very little and it'll be noisy), while others will be damaged, and still others will work when you talk into them at normal levels but will run out of headroom more easily than you are used to--sometimes far more easily. The same manufacturer may very well have different models which require their outputs to be unbalanced in different ways from each other--the example I most often give of that is Neumann (the KM 140 vs. the KM 184, for example) although Schoeps also has some models that you unbalance one way and others that you unbalance a different way, and I'm sure that AKG does also. So ... ask them.

--best regards
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 11:47:30 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Sunday Driver

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Re: Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 11:31:02 PM »
You are probably going to want to read this thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108412.msg1447192.html

Edit: DSatz beat me to it, but there you have it.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 11:32:33 PM by Sunday Driver »
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Offline carpa

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Re: Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2009, 04:14:24 AM »
What I read is all very useful to understand the balanced-unbalanced matter. At the purpouse I have two questions:

1) using a preamp with xlr inputs, phantom power+preamp stage and an unbalanced out (which is goin to be a line-level signal to send to deck's line in), will it completely solve the problem, meaning that it will work with every mic and it will keep the signal balanced from the mic to the preamp?

2) NOT using an external preamp, Dsatz talked about a transformer.  Does it apply also to a device like Shure A95uf impedance matching transformer  (http://store.shure.com/store/shure/en_US/DisplayProductDetailsPage/productID.104215300?)
This little piece of gear has an xlr in, a line transformer inside which matches impedance and ends with a 1/4 jack (male or female).
I would like to know if such a thing preserves the unbalanced properties of the line and if it may affect the quality of the recording.

thanks
c

Offline lino

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Re: Correct way to run Phantom Power > Miniplug 1/8"
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2009, 08:47:07 AM »
how about the MBHO active cables for a solution? part # 99-8035
XLR balanced input to balanced OR unbalanced Jack out
work on 2x PX28L  6Volt batteries putting out 12V for your mics

 

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