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Author Topic: Need help with XLR Phantom Powered mic.  (Read 2109 times)

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Offline avrilfan

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Need help with XLR Phantom Powered mic.
« on: December 28, 2009, 07:46:01 AM »
Hey guys.

I have a question. I have a studio condenser microphone with xlr connector. It needs 48V phantom. I'm thinking to use it for concert recordings (official and stealth).

My question is:
How do I power it when I have to do it on stealth - without having a soundboard. I've seen ART phantom I - http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTPHANTOMI

So it has xlr in and xlr out. And then what? Where do I lead the xlr out? To an audio amplifier or to a line input of the recorder?

My guess would be that I still need an amplifier. The only one I have is from Chruch Audio - CA 9100. Too bad it only has 3.5mm jacks. And the recorder is Zoom H2.

Thanks for the answer.

Tomaz
CA-11 Cards > CA-9100 Preamp > Zoom H2 :)

Thanks you Chris Church for your awesome gear.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Need help with XLR Phantom Powered mic.
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2009, 08:44:42 AM »
All that a phantom power supply does is supply operating power to the microphone. It doesn't amplify the microphone's signal to line level. So at its output, you basically have the same kind of signal (in terms of levels and impedance) that you'd have if your microphone hadn't needed powering in the first place.

Battery-operated 48-Volt phantom power supplies definitely still exist. One robust, relatively low-cost supply that I've used is from Denecke. If I had the cash sitting around I would give the Core Sound supply a try, since it runs on two 9-Volt batteries and lets you hot-swap the batteries one by one for as long as the gig continues, if you have enough batteries.

Personally I'd give anything made by ART the hairy eyeball since their mike preamps are such train wrecks. Read the specifications with a fine-toothed comb for sure. Phantom powering is NOT a place to cut corners; there's an international standard and the microphone manufacturers design their microphones on the assumption that the standard will be complied with in all essentials. In many cases a microphone will limp along or fail if it's not powered correctly, and that tends to be more the case with better microphones; relatively crappy ones may be tolerant of variations in the power supply, while a substandard power supply tends to make the better microphones turn crappy.

The other problem you face is that standard phantom powering is defined only for microphones with balanced outputs, while the inputs of your recorder are apparently unbalanced. So you either need to (a) arrange a balanced input for your recorder, or else (b) unbalance the signal from your microphone. (a) is preferable from a technical standpoint (i.e. lowest overall noise and likelihood of picking up interference), and there are ways of doing it which work for all types of microphone, while (b) might fit better with "stealth recording." But with approach (b) different connection specifics would need to be observed for different brands and models of microphone; the type of phantom supply that you're working with would be a factor as well. It's unfortunately somewhat complicated and despite some people's wishful thinking and willingness to stab in the dark at the problem, there's no one general solution that always works.

If you can use a mike preamp that has a balanced input and phantom powering built in, and that either has an unbalanced output (e.g. Grace Design M101) or a balanced output that can easily be unbalanced (e.g. Sound Devices MP-1, which has the advantage of small size and internal batteries), then you solve both problems in a nearly ideal way from a technical standpoint--but then you have one more box to feed and clothe.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 01:09:47 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline dgale

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Re: Need help with XLR Phantom Powered mic.
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2009, 10:34:59 AM »
Your best bet is to get a small battery-powered pre-amp that has XLR inputs and supplies phantom power.  This will not only give you the phantom power but also boost the mic signal to line level for your recorder, as well as likely giving you much better sound quality over relying on the pre-amp built into most of these small/inexpensive recorders.  I'm not sure of all the various options made these days, so others can enlighten you.  I use a Sound Devices MP-2 which provides phantom power and has XLR ins/outs, as well as an 1/8" mini unbalanced output you could run straight to your recorder. 
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Mics: SKM140, CM300/CP-1/CP-2/CP-4
Pre/AD: SD MP-2, AD2K+, MiniMe, SBM-1
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Motu Traveler, Korg MR-2, DA-P1, D8, D7, DTR-80P, D5, D6

Offline Todd R

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Re: Need help with XLR Phantom Powered mic.
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2009, 10:39:47 AM »
I was just starting to post the same thing about a battery powered preamp that provides phantom power.  I'd strongly recommend the Naiant littlebox 2ch preamp, really an excellent sounding preamp with lots of customizable features and a base price of just over $200 -- can't go wrong!
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline acidjack

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Re: Need help with XLR Phantom Powered mic.
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2009, 10:40:09 AM »
Hey guys.

I have a question. I have a studio condenser microphone with xlr connector. It needs 48V phantom. I'm thinking to use it for concert recordings (official and stealth).

My question is:
How do I power it when I have to do it on stealth - without having a soundboard. I've seen ART phantom I - http://www.zzounds.com/item--ARTPHANTOMI

So it has xlr in and xlr out. And then what? Where do I lead the xlr out? To an audio amplifier or to a line input of the recorder?

My guess would be that I still need an amplifier. The only one I have is from Chruch Audio - CA 9100. Too bad it only has 3.5mm jacks. And the recorder is Zoom H2.

Thanks for the answer.

Tomaz

Sound Professionals sells a modified Denecke PS-2 that I think is about the smallest self-worn (has a belt clip) phantom that you can get.  There are concerns about battery life to some degree, but depends on the mics. I have one but have not had a chance to try it out yet.

The Naiant littlebox is a small, highly effective and high quality preamp that would work.  Bigger than a Denecke, but not by that much.  www.naiant.com 
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

 

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