Topic: Neumann KM185 questions

[acidjack]

Following on this earlier thread with a slightly different focus: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=95541.msg1272600#msg1272600 -

I don't think I've seen many TS.com users (any?) with these mics, and I'm a bit curious why.  The price is pretty good - cheaper than KM150s, and from the responses in the above thread, the 150/185 are quite, quite similar.  Has anyone considered and then rejected these, and if so, what did you go with instead?  I mean, if the answer is "Schoeps Mk41" I hear you, but a new set of 185's is half that price (~$1800)

Anyone have any idea what they go for used?

[Todd R]

I haven't heard of anyone running km185's, but even the km150's are pretty rare for tapers.  I ran km150's for awhile, though I preferred my km140s.

I'd guess the km185s are very, very similar to the km150s, but still both are pretty rolled off in the low end and may not be the best suited for full-frequency music recording (unless you've got so much low end that you wanted some rolled off anyway).

The km185's are about 16 db down from flat at 30hz, which is about 8db lower response at that frequency than the km140s, and 16db lower response than their very flat omnis.  And probably 6db or worse in low end response than the mk41's.

I found the km150s to be good for small, crappy sounding clubs where you wanted hypers to deal with the poor room sound, but were close enough to the subwoofers that a good amount of low end rolloff worked to your advantage.  But the km150s for me weren't good for b-ball arenas or whatnot where you wanted hypers since you were so far back.  In those instances, there just wasn't a lot of low end response on the tapes.

As to used, I've only seen km185s come up very, very rarely on ebay, never on ts.com.

Of course, I'd recommend the Gefell m210's over the km150s/km185's and over the mk41's, though I don't know how they compare on price.  For lower cost hypers, I'd def recommend the AKG 483s.  I ran those for years and liked them far better for what we do than the km150's.

[danlynch]

"What we do" varies greatly.  I use the 150s in clubs and smaller concert halls, many of which (Highline, Bowery, Music Hall) use state of the art systems.  The clarity in these recordings is quite remarkable.  I've listened to many recordings made with 140s and I've always found them boomy and lacking in the definition that the 150s capture.

[OFOTD]

Of course, I'd recommend the Gefell m210's over the km150s/km185's and over the mk41's, though I don't know how they compare on price.  For lower cost hypers, I'd def recommend the AKG 483s.  I ran those for years and liked them far better for what we do than the km150's.

I think the above reason is why you don't see alot of 150's/185's.   For the same money there are just better sounding hyper solutions out there.   

[danlynch]

Yes, if you prefer muddy and boomy.

[DSatz]

The KM 150 or 185 are very useful, high-quality microphones, and the KM 185 is a rather good value for the money (not that it's cheap!). BUT the capsule's low-frequency response is definitely rolled off--see the graphs on www.neumann.com, where this characteristic is unmistakeable. It's a smooth, well-chosen rolloff that doesn't kill the bass, but it certainly shifts the emphasis upward.

If the bass in a recording venue is a problem area (as it often is), that can be a plus. If not, not.

I use the KM 150 as a "spot" or "accent" microphone rather often, and also for high-quality speech pickup, but rarely as a main microphone for music unless I truly want to spotlight the vocal range of frequencies at the expense of lower-frequency energy. There's also a mild-to-moderate elevation built in at high frequencies (around 9 kHz as I recall), which can give a nice sparkle for sound that isn't very shiny to begin with. But with the professional singers that I often record, that only gets in the way--like having icing on the icing on the cake, which is appealing for a while, but not such a good long-term solution, I find.

--best regards

[Todd R]

"What we do" varies greatly.

I was referring to what we do as recording music, which is what most on the board are doing.  Music meaning full frequency content, not speech or say drum spot mics.

Obviously different people have different tastes and prefer different sonic signatures, but the rolled off low end on the neumanns wasn't for me.  I did tape with DAT back when I had mine and really didn't do much with post processing.  I'm sure the 150/185's are very clean and would probably respond well to a bit of bass boosting, so I might not find them as objectionable these days since I'm more open to doing some post processing to get a sound I'm looking for.

To the OP's curiosity, I'm still guessing it is the low end response that may not be for everyone that makes the km150s not as popular with tapers.  But if you like the sound of km150's, the km185 should be a perfectly fine substitute for less money (though you lose the modularity and flexibility of the km100 series approach).

[silentmark]

the 150's with a minime sound really good, I would assume the 185's would sound just as good. Without a minime in front, they are abit thin imo ...

Now who wants to loan some ak50 caps so I can run them into my owmfr2le ? ;-)

[acidjack]

Thanks; lots to chew on here.  As Dan alludes to, I tend to use hypers more in an application where I want both (a) a rolled off low end and (b) to enhance the clarity of the vocals.  Many times of late I am either using 2 sets of mics or mics + SBD.  I've been playing around with these Beyerdynamic hypers, but like the sound of the Neumann 150s and am curious about "what else there is" in a slightly lower range that is still possibly a step up from the MC950s.  The MG210 are a little more $$ than the 185s, but of course, less than Schoeps, and also seem like they could be useful for such a purpose if I wanted to "upgrade" the hypers I have now down the road...

[dbindc]

You might want to consider MBHO KA500 capsules paired with either the 648 (transformer) or 603 bodies.  Haven't heard enough of the Beyers to know whether to consider them an upgrade, but the HO's might be my favorite of all the German manufactured hypercardiod mics - really like the Gefell 210 too.  Can't seem to find a frequency chart on their website, but to my ears the roll off in the lower frequencies is much less dramatic than the AK50's.  In fact the bass response seems pretty similar to their card's which admittedly some people find lacking.  Overall I just find them to be the most "natural" sounding.  No musical sounds seem unduly accentuated or attenuated, just very even across the board.  They also do a pretty good job of helping to compensate for crappy acoustics, venues, excessive bass reverb etc.  Price is reasonable too.

[OFOTD]

AKG 483 - best hyper PERIOD!