Topic: Super Stealth -- No Battery Box/Preamp Big Mistake?

[TimeBandit]

Advantage of the preamp is that it helps set gain, zero it in better? Does it color the recording at all, would think so? I don't mind recording low and post processing, but I imagine it'd be best to listen to unadulterated masters?

i run the tascam at around 6 on the gain wheel (think there is the unity gain) and sony users run the pcm-m10 at 4 at unity too . You do the "Master Gain" at the Preamp, like Chris says the gain wheel on the pre at around 90 % opened and you get fine results.

I would LOVE to not tape all stealthy, but one can only attend so many elementary school ensembles before It's a Small World comes back to sounding like the masterpiece it is! But that's a topic for other threads -- where is all this open taping happening?

i see here most of open taping declared events are in the US, maybe some in the UK .. but when you recording smaller bands, like i often do .. and handing the band a copy over so it´s very friendly situation and even when you make connections, i was the only taper for a band in Gagarin205 Athens for a band, so i was set on the guestlist and allowed to get the gear official in.

[absnj]

I had a set of Church Audio STC-11's... which is the predecessor to the CA-11's.  I sold them to a friend and he has run plug-in-power with an R09HR on stage at Derek Trucks many times.  They didn't brickwall, even on stage.  If you aren't doing heavy metal, there is a decent chance you can run these plug in power.  Also, I think there are some Sonic Studio mics that are said to work with the Sony M10 just fine... and Lenny seems to have a really good understanding of what will power his mics, and what won't.

I was the buyer of Joe's STC11's.  I have run them at stacks, stage lip and in the audience, into an Edirol R09HR.  If the levels were set OK, recordings have generally been very good without a battery box or pre-amp.  I have taped Derek (as Joe said above), his wife Susan Tedeschi, Bonnie Raitt and others, so you have a good range of situations.  With levels set too low, I found I lost a lot at the high and low ends.  I also have some of Chris's CA-14's, which do need a pre-amp, but I like them better and find them more forgiving.

[earmonger]

There are a few ultra-paranoid acts. Tool. Bob Dylan.

But most of the time, I walk into shows with my Sony PCM-M10 in a camera case on my belt that also holds the battery box. The mics are under my shirt, later to be clipped to collar. Security people think the PCM-M10 is a point-and-shoot camera. One told me, just don't use the flash. With all the cell phones and digicams and other gizmos around, stealthing is a lot easier than it used to be.

[SmokinJoe]

I would LOVE to not tape all stealthy, but one can only attend so many elementary school ensembles before It's a Small World comes back to sounding like the masterpiece it is! But that's a topic for other threads -- where is all this open taping happening?

At the risk of generalizing... a large part of us are into "the jamband scene" where open taping/trading has been generally accepted for years, starting with the Grateful Dead.   I believe Jerry made the statement "when we are done with it, it belongs to them".

The biggest factor today is probably the "indie bands".  The big record labels contract with the radio stations, which ensures Lady Gaga get's lots of radio play, which leads to record sales. In that contract is almost surely a clause that Lady Gaga doesn't allow taping.   If you aren't signed with one of those big record labels, you can do what you want.  Bands like Grace Potter and Gov't Mule haven't signed with the big labels, so they don't get the radio play.  They build their fan base at a grass roots level, by word of mouth, and by letting tapers share tapes with other potential fans.  It's basically an alternate business model for people who don't want to sell their soul to the record companies.

I don't think I've ever really taped anyone who didn't want to be taped.  There are some artists where you know the artist doesn't care, it's the freakin record company, or tour manager that says no.  I'll stealth them.  But if someone really doesn't want it (Dylan) then I won't.

~~~~~~

Public discussions of how to stealth tape, including how to sneak gear in, how to deploy it, etc are generally frowned upon.  It could be that the security guard who will be frisking you tomorrow is learning your tricks today.  The general rule is "let's keep stealth stealthy".  If you want to trade strategies do it offline.   And with off line discussions, use caution.  One time I upped a show to Dime and I got some messages from someone asking about my gear...  asking for specifics... what did it look like?  Maybe this was a fan who wanted to start taping, or maybe this was a security guy trying to learn secrets.  I stopped responding.

[illconditioned]

I would LOVE to not tape all stealthy, but one can only attend so many elementary school ensembles before It's a Small World comes back to sounding like the masterpiece it is! But that's a topic for other threads -- where is all this open taping happening?

At the risk of generalizing... a large part of us are into "the jamband scene" where open taping/trading has been generally accepted for years, starting with the Grateful Dead.   I believe Jerry made the statement "when we are done with it, it belongs to them".

The biggest factor today is probably the "indie bands".  The big record labels contract with the radio stations, which ensures Lady Gaga get's lots of radio play, which leads to record sales. In that contract is almost surely a clause that Lady Gaga doesn't allow taping.   If you aren't signed with one of those big record labels, you can do what you want.  Bands like Grace Potter and Gov't Mule haven't signed with the big labels, so they don't get the radio play.  They build their fan base at a grass roots level, by word of mouth, and by letting tapers share tapes with other potential fans.  It's basically an alternate business model for people who don't want to sell their soul to the record companies.

I don't think I've ever really taped anyone who didn't want to be taped.  There are some artists where you know the artist doesn't care, it's the freakin record company, or tour manager that says no.  I'll stealth them.  But if someone really doesn't want it (Dylan) then I won't.

~~~~~~

Public discussions of how to stealth tape, including how to sneak gear in, how to deploy it, etc are generally frowned upon.  It could be that the security guard who will be frisking you tomorrow is learning your tricks today.  The general rule is "let's keep stealth stealthy".  If you want to trade strategies do it offline.   And with off line discussions, use caution.  One time I upped a show to Dime and I got some messages from someone asking about my gear...  asking for specifics... what did it look like?  Maybe this was a fan who wanted to start taping, or maybe this was a security guy trying to learn secrets.  I stopped responding.

Nowadays I  think it is very easy to make audience recordings.  Everyone (audience, band, security) is so used to seeing people fiddle with cellpones or texting that they won't notice.  The same for gear clipped on your body.  It could be a GPS, a cellpone, camera, etc.  IME the only time you're noticed is if you bring a stand, you deploy gear near the soundboard the stage, or you clip/hang your mics somewhere that is highly visible, and even then, there are probably more annoying people putting up a video camera anyway.  So just keep from annoying the audience and blocking sightlines and you should be fine.  If someone tells you to take it down, just do so (and keep your stealth gear running  ).

  Richard

[acutejam]

Public discussions of how to stealth tape, including how to sneak gear in, how to deploy it, etc are generally frowned upon.  It could be that the security guard who will be frisking you tomorrow is learning your tricks today.  The general rule is "let's keep stealth stealthy".  If you want to trade strategies do it offline.   And with off line discussions, use caution.  One time I upped a show to Dime and I got some messages from someone asking about my gear...  asking for specifics... what did it look like?  Maybe this was a fan who wanted to start taping, or maybe this was a security guy trying to learn secrets.  I stopped responding.

Oh hey, thanks for this, understood -- funny, I hadn't thought of the undercover security guard angle! Guess I asked cause I suspected as much.

Yep, the Dead was where I started -- all over Northern CA, Frost, Greek, Arco, HJK, in the mid 80s. But I never had the gear.

Funny too, for some reason I couldn't bring myself to stealth Leo Kottke last month -- and then he up and POPPED a guy recording him from stage!
Leo: "You know, all i can see is that red light staring at me from up here on stage. It's really adding to the pressure up here..." and in swoops the ushers, as he talked for a bit about why he and Joe Pass never let the venues record them.  Man, to think there may be recordings of Leo Kottke and Joe Pass jamming!

So yeah, I understand that basic respect and the whole karma of it all. I go to shows to enjoy the artists, not rip 'em off. I just like to walk out with something more than a tee shirt!

[adrianf74]

I'll throw my $0.02 into the ring.  Been taping on-and-off for just shy of 20 years.

I would say you should pick up some "basic" external mics.   If you're afraid of getting popped, look at the CAFS-OMNI mics that Chris sells (I use these myself, and the capsules aren't much bigger than a matchstick).  A battery box... get the CA-UBB (Ugly Battery Box).  It's essentially a 9V connected to some epoxy stuff with a line in and a 1/8" cable.  It's ugly but it gets her done when you're in those "tight" spots.  Again, I use this when I need to go low pro.  I was running an R09 prior to the M10 I bought last month.  With an M10, the CAFS-OMNIS and the CA-UBB, you should have *NO* problems getting that in if you're a little creative.

I still prefer my CA-14 cards and run those 90% of the time (even in some "not-so friendly environments") because with a black ballcap, they're not that noticeable.  I also prefer the fact that cards will deflect a lot of the chatty Cathys that might be standing (or sitting) nearby, however, if it's a band that's not friendly - or a venue that's difficult - I'll run the CAFS.   

Hopefully that helped...

[sunjan]

My philosophy: if you can get the recorder through the door, you should be able to get a CA-UBB in. And if you can get the UBB in, you might as well get a CA-Ugly. And if you put the Ugly next to a 9100/9200, the size difference isn't dramatic.

As mentioned earlier, team stealth your gear thru the doors with other concert goers.

For stadium gigs, I go there early, walk straight up to the doors beside the line, and study the pat-down technique of the bouncers - whether they open peoples bags or make everyone pull out their cell phones and cameras. If there are several lines, you obviously go for the one where security/pat-down is lighter.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that skipping the BB/pre is a mistake, but it's an unnecessary sacrifice.

[adrianf74]

My philosophy: if you can get the recorder through the door, you should be able to get a CA-UBB in. And if you can get the UBB in, you might as well get a CA-Ugly. And if you put the Ugly next to a 9100/9200, the size difference isn't dramatic.

As mentioned earlier, team stealth your gear thru the doors with other concert goers.

For stadium gigs, I go there early, walk straight up to the doors beside the line, and study the pat-down technique of the bouncers - whether they open peoples bags or make everyone pull out their cell phones and cameras. If there are several lines, you obviously go for the one where security/pat-down is lighter.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that skipping the BB/pre is a mistake, but it's an unnecessary sacrifice.

Well said.. Sometimes I like to travel light so theUlgy BB is the "easy" winner but the worst thing that could happen is that you don't bring either with you and miss out on that once-in-a-lifetime show.... and that's gonna hurt.

[sunjan]

Just to set the previous post straight. CA-Ugly is a preamp, not just a BB.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=91415.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=119448.msg1595706#msg1595706

Regarding missing a show because of forgotten gear. With the M10 you have the internal mics as a last option, so you won't go home without a tape at least.

[daspyknows]

but one thing I'm awful at is getting the gear in. I've been caught at the door 2-3 times with the H2 in the last few years. So I just don't wanna hassle with ANOTHER component. Of the dozen events I've got over the next few months, I'd say at least 1/3 will be extremely heavy door security/scrutiny.

Everything is so small these days that a recorder, mics and a preamp is still smaller than a beta tape we used to sneak in with the pcm-f1/sl2000, batteries and mics.  Unless its full on metal detectors you SHOULD have no problem.  Even wanfs/metal detectors can be beaten with a little creativity