Topic: Mic Comp: Schoeps Mk5 vs. DPA 4021 [results posted]

[SmokinJoe]

I think Mic 1 is the Schoeps.  Fatter and smoother.   I think Mic 2 is the DPA... clean, crisp and the guitar is kinda in your face... nothing wrong with that, it's just not my flavor of choice.

That said, I'm more familiar the MK4's.  Never paid much attention to how MK4's and MK5's compare, but I'm assuming they are kind of similar.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

The ability to make a recording that sounds decent, from a PA that sounds bad, is what it's often all about.

Well, I would disagree that the purpose is to make a bad PA sound good. There is just no way to do this.

Right - because all recordings sound the same‏.

I'm not sure how I might have offended you but there is no need to be snarky. I was asked my opinion and gave it. If yours differs so be it.

I wasn't offended and it wasn't snarky.  I just think your proposition was absurd.  Because, again, it is what we do.  It's a comp of two mics - one which we haven't heard here before.

As for the PA being "bad", I'm sure we've all had to deal with far worse (shudder).

[acidjack]

c'mon folks... let's get some more votes. I'm getting PMs about the results.. let's see some more votes!  It's free...

[bhadella]

I want some results!

If anyone is interested, I have a MMW show where I ran a comp of  4023 > Sonosax > R44 vs MK4 > Lemosax > R44 that I could make a comp of.

[tedyun]

I'd like to hear this (even if you just recorded the PA  )

I want some results!

If anyone is interested, I have a MMW show where I ran a comp of  4023 > Sonosax > R44 vs MK4 > Lemosax > R44 that I could make a comp of.

[acidjack]

Brian, I'd definitely like to hear your MMW comp.  Certainly it'll likely be a better-sounding show. 

So.. results..

Mic 1 was my DPA 4021s

Mic 2 is hi and lo's Mk5s into my CMC6 bodies

To me this result isn't all that surprising, and I'm not surprised that folks preferred Mic 2.  If you look at the frequency response plots of the mics, the mk5 is less flat and has that much more pronounced HF emphasis that the 4021 does not have.  I also feel like the mk5 has a slight bit of bass rolloff, but that may just be my ears being tricked by the HF emphasis.

As has been amply debated in the thread, this is not a great recording because it is not a very good PA mix, very strong PA, or ideal spot in the room.  But I do think this comp says a lot about the choice of mic one might have for recording PA systems.  A lot of us spend a lot of our time recording PA systems that are less than ideal, so if you do, you might consider a mic that is more suited to less ideal conditions (of course, I'd also call that mic "hypers" in a lot of cases).   While I won't claim this recording is excellent, I do think it is a very accurate representation of the difference in results that you get in these types of conditions with these types of mics.  If this were a comp of say, an orchestra, or an onstage recording, or a studio recording, I suspect the results would be different.

It's true that the 402x mics are notoriously accurate mics - to their detriment when they're recording a bad room.  With 402x mics especially, I think you cannot be afraid of the EQ.  After applying an EQ curve to the 4021 source that looked more like the Schoeps, the source sounds quite good with them.  But again, if you record a lot of PA systems and don't like the idea of doing a bunch of EQ, you might consider a mic that didn't require as much of it. 

Now let's hear that MMW comp!   

[SmokinJoe]

I just spent big bucks to buy Schoeps and I preferred the sound of the DPA's in this comp.      Then again I have MK4's, and apparently there is more difference between the flavor of MK4's and MK5's than I expected.

What it really means that I can't trust my own opinions.  A few years ago I was hanging with a guy who was fluffing his DPA's.  I listened to a few of his tapes, and to be honest I didn't really care for them, although it was probably more of a case of "I didn't like these mics paired with that pre", and maybe he didn't either because he changed preamp soon thereafter.  Based on those handful of samples I formed an opinion which I've held onto for a few years, kind of like "I tried chocolate ice cream once, and I didn't like it, therefore I still don't like it".  I guess I need to re-evaluate those opinions from time to time.

[acidjack]

^^ I believe the Mk4 has a flatter response than the Mk5.  My understanding is that the Mk5 has a response more similar to the Mk4v.

For me, as the owner of the losing mics in this comp, I dramatically preferred the Schoeps source in this case.  It doesn't (to me) mean that one is necessarily better than the other, but to me one was infinitely better for this particular situation. 

I'm curious to see what your views of the Schoeps are after a few months, compared to the AKGs you already have.  The Schoeps certainly have a "fatter" and less dry sound than AKG products do.  Same as with the DPAs, lots of great recordings made with both.

[newplanet7]

I want some results!

If anyone is interested, I have a MMW show where I ran a comp of  4023 > Sonosax > R44 vs MK4 > Lemosax > R44 that I could make a comp of.

Have you seeded either ever ?
If you need help with any mmw i am here brah.

[bhadella]

I want some results!

If anyone is interested, I have a MMW show where I ran a comp of  4023 > Sonosax > R44 vs MK4 > Lemosax > R44 that I could make a comp of.

Have you seeded either ever ?
If you need help with any mmw i am here brah.

I seeded both on etree back in '09.  Looks like I let both torrents die.   Here's some info on the DPA source:

-------------------------------------------------------
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=528357
-------------------------------------------------------
Medeski Martin & Wood
09/19/09
Neighborhood Theatre, Charlotte, NC

Source: DPA 4022 (5' LOC at SBD, 8' up, DIN) > Lunatec V3 (digital out) > Edirol R44 (24/48)

Transfer: SDHC Card > PC > Wavelab 5 (Fades, Resampled via resampler 192, MBIT+ Dither) > CD Wave > Trader's Little Helper
Taped and Transfered by: Brian Hadella <bhadella@taperssection.com>


Disc 1:
Set 1:

01. Walk Back
02. Dollar Pants
03. Sweet Pea Dreams
04. Reliquary
05. Broken Mirror
06. Wonton
07. Amber Gris


Disc 2:
Set 2:
01. Amish Pinxtos
02. Junkyard
03. Jean's Scene
04. Free Go Lily
05. Where's Sly?
06. Gwyra Mi
07. Newplanet
08. Undone

Encore:

09. Crosstown Traffic

[it-goes-to-eleven]

It's true that the 402x mics are notoriously accurate mics - to their detriment when they're recording a bad room.  With 402x mics especially, I think you cannot be afraid of the EQ.  After applying an EQ curve to the 4021 source that looked more like the Schoeps, the source sounds quite good with them.

Thanks for the comp.

I've never run 402x's, but your comments reflect my impressions.  The 402x have a Big frequency response that goes very low - lower than most any other card.  That can be an asset or a liability.  I suppose you need to be willing to run an hpf, or do post.  Maybe tighten up the pattern more than for some other mics..

I suppose it's a little bit like mk21's.  Many times that cap isn't appropriate, or requires a different approach.  But when it is appropriate, holy cow, it can be really great.

On the subject of EQ..  I've thought it might be interesting to re-do some of these comps after folks EQ the results.   Ideally, we'd get a few different interpretations and then could do a blind comp of them.  I also thought that might be interesting with the last comp we had - the dpa vs. mc930's.  Of course Summer is upon us - it isn't really the time to be indoors, doing EQ...

[newplanet7]

I want some results!

If anyone is interested, I have a MMW show where I ran a comp of  4023 > Sonosax > R44 vs MK4 > Lemosax > R44 that I could make a comp of.

Have you seeded either ever ?
If you need help with any mmw i am here brah.

I seeded both on etree back in '09.  Looks like I let both torrents die.   Here's some info on the DPA source:
-------------------------------------------------------
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=528357
-------------------------------------------------------
Medeski Martin & Wood
09/19/09
Neighborhood Theatre, Charlotte, NC

Source: DPA 4022 (5' LOC at SBD, 8' up, DIN) > Lunatec V3 (digital out) > Edirol R44 (24/48)

Ha ha! I was reading the comments and apparently I indeed help with that show! I'm a whore for some MMdubz.

[F.O.Bean]

I did this comp. I liked the  DPA source better, but I dont really care for the 4v/mk5 HF bump. Just doesnt sound like Schoeps IMHO Theyre supposed to be dark, not bright!

[acidjack]

I just like yr new handle, Bean. (or should I say F.O. Bean?) 

[aaronji]

I prefer the DPA source too.  Fuller bass and not so bright in the high-end.  But I was sure that Mic 1 was the Schoeps...

As for MMW, I got a pretty good recording of them with Randy Brecker and Bill Evans at North Sea a couple of weeks ago.  I've been so swamped lately, though, that I haven't even pulled it off of the SD card yet...