Author Topic: Schoeps MK22 - placement & pattern experiences (Read 7834 times)

acidjack · « **on:** January 28, 2012, 05:19:04 PM »

I know a few of us by now have played with this relatively new cap, and I thought I'd see what people's experiences have been. It's a given that onstage is going to be great with them, but how have people liked them further back? I've tried them so far about 15-20ft from stage with *amazing* results, and then in a mid-size club balcony a bit further back. liked them in both, though of course, you have to be ready to use the EQ or be someone who enjoys bass.

What pattern have people liked? I know the Schoeps bar is roughly ORTF, but how have folks liked DIN, NOS, etc? I'm going to be in a midsize club tonight and probably try DIN again... a little afraid of ORTF at 75ft back...

Anyone tried stack taping with them? I should get a few chances to do that soon also..

jbell · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2012, 05:33:38 PM »

With the wider pattern of the MK22 I wouldn't use ORTF unless I was really close or onstage.

stevetoney · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2012, 05:41:44 PM »

Quote from: acidjack on January 28, 2012, 05:19:04 PM

I know a few of us by now have played with this relatively new cap, and I thought I'd see what people's experiences have been. It's a given that onstage is going to be great with them, but how have people liked them further back? I've tried them so far about 15-20ft from stage with *amazing* results, and then in a mid-size club balcony a bit further back. liked them in both, though of course, you have to be ready to use the EQ or be someone who enjoys bass.

What pattern have people liked? I know the Schoeps bar is roughly ORTF, but how have folks liked DIN, NOS, etc? I'm going to be in a midsize club tonight and probably try DIN again... a little afraid of ORTF at 75ft back...

Anyone tried stack taping with them? I should get a few chances to do that soon also..

I was a blooming idiot for selling the MK22's. I'm gonna buy 21s or 22s soon. I didn't have any problems taping with them in any of the rooms that I hit up. Other than the tighter patterns cut down on the crowd a bit, so the MK22's can pick up a little more crowd that some like when you move back, but the overall sound quality makes up for that IMHO. I love the mk22 and can't believe that I ever sold my pair.

As far as ORTF as you move back, I'd probably go a bit narrower, but it probably depends on the room as much as anything. You probably don't want to maximize the reverberant sound if the walls are fairly close, but if they're a ways away it might still sound fine.

Actually, below is a link of a recording I made in a room that's much deeper than it is wide...maybe 30 feet wide and 60 to 80 feet deep. They had us go almost all the way back and I tightened the angles a little bit to compensate. They generally have it pretty loud in that room though so I get some pretty kickass sounding recordings there. But thought you might like to hear this as a comparison of what you can get with the mk22's at the back of a room.

http://www.archive.org/details/dtb2011-01-22.mk22_16bit

H₂O · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2012, 07:45:46 PM »

Schoeps sells a bar for the 22's -> stc 22g

http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/stc

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:57:48 PM »

I would run them NOS or WideORTF

noahbickart · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2012, 12:45:23 PM »

I've been very happy with the mk22 as a M microphone in my M-S rig. I've used it onstage to make some very good records, and from farther back as well.

noahbickart · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2012, 01:26:06 PM »

I feel the need to bump this thread with links:

Good Use of Mk22: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=555992
Bad use of mk22: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=556472

FOB is great, the Section tape has a lot of chatter and not enough reach.

For me, its 41 from the section and 22 up front.

DSatz · « **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:34:22 PM »

I nearly always use my MK 22 capsules on Colette cables in the Schoeps STC 22 adapter, which positions the capsules 21 cm apart with 110 degrees between their main axes (as compared with ORTF, which is 17 cm / 110 degrees).

The resulting stereophonic recording angle is just a few degrees wider than with ORTF--not enough difference to matter much, I think--but the sonic impression is definitely "warmer."

--best regards

noahbickart · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2012, 08:50:29 AM »

Dstaz, I know you are a fan of m/s, have you used the mk22 as a mid yet?

Big Perm · « **Reply #9 on:** July 13, 2012, 11:40:57 AM »

I use the schoeps bar designed for the mk22 95% of the time. If I'm further back or in a room that doesn't sound very good I'll use the NOS bar. I run the mk22 every time I record. If far away I use them as the smaller percentage in a 4ch mix with the mk41. I find they add a nice fullness and warmth to the recordings when mixed. For what we do, I find the mk22 much more useful and overall a better choice than the mk21 (IMHO) I have owned both and will never sell the mk22.

coloartist · « **Reply #10 on:** July 13, 2012, 12:45:48 PM »

I love my mk22's. I have always run them NOS. I might go ahead and buy that Schoeps mount now. I didn't know it existed.

Here is a real good pull IMHO : http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=536513

Widespread Panic
The Spud
Driggs, ID
7/04/2010

Source:Schoeps MK22>kwon-NOS>KC5>CMC6>V3>KindKables SPDIF>744T(HPF 0) 24/48
Location:OTS Left of soundboard, stand at 8'
dsp: 744t > wavelab5 > cdwave > wavelab5 > flac(7)
Flacs tagged with Foobar2000 live show tagger.

Fried Chicken Boy · « **Reply #11 on:** July 13, 2012, 01:44:47 PM »

Quote from: coloartist on July 13, 2012, 12:45:48 PM

Here is a real good pull IMHO

Sounds really good to me, too. Nice to be able to stream it at the office today. Thanks for the link!

newplanet7 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 13, 2012, 08:50:51 PM »

I LOVE this pic/visualization of my two favorite standard MIC techniques.
Really puts things in perspective. Both configs absolutely kill on-stage/stage-lip.
Cards and subs smoke here. Also, I can't remember who it was, but someone ran omnis in NOS and I thought it was stellar.
Looking at it at the time I ws thinking that it wasn't a big enough spread for omnis but it had a great stereo field/soundstage.

hi and lo · « **Reply #13 on:** July 13, 2012, 08:54:39 PM »

ORFT?

newplanet7 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 13, 2012, 08:56:00 PM »

Quote from: hi and lo on July 13, 2012, 08:54:39 PM

ORFT?

Ha ha! I just caught that! Nice WIKI, nice.

Big Perm · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2012, 03:37:26 AM »

Quote from: coloartist on July 13, 2012, 12:45:48 PM

I love my mk22's. I have always run them NOS. I might go ahead and buy that Schoeps mount now. I didn't know it existed.

Do it! You will be happy!
a

acidjack · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2012, 03:38:29 PM »

Any feelings on best config with them outdoors? Stc22 bar?

coloartist · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2012, 04:53:22 PM »

Quote from: Big Perm on July 15, 2012, 03:37:26 AM

Quote from: coloartist on July 13, 2012, 12:45:48 PM
I love my mk22's. I have always run them NOS. I might go ahead and buy that Schoeps mount now. I didn't know it existed.

Do it! You will be happy!
a

Now wait a second. The stc 22g specs are:

Distance between the microphones    210 mm
Angle between the microphones     110 °
Recording angle   with MK 22 : ca. 100 °

I have a NOLA wide bar that I have been using onstage. I am pretty sure those are the dimensions. It is about 203mm at the bar connectors, but the capsules would be a little wider and I'm pretty positive it is 110 °. I don't see them for sale in his thread anymore. Does anyone know the dimensions of it this bar is?

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153244.0

newplanet7 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 15, 2012, 05:20:33 PM »

So it;s just a wide ORTF is all.

page · « **Reply #19 on:** July 15, 2012, 05:42:20 PM »

Quote from: newplanet7 on July 15, 2012, 05:20:33 PM

So it;s just a wide ORTF is all.

well, the 22g bar is intended to recreate the same stereo recording angle/effect as ortf has with cardioids. So it's a "wider ortf" in the sense of the raw numbers, but the sound effect is approximately the same since the pattern is more open.

There is a relationship to capsule angle, spacing, and pattern on the stereo image (assuming sound source angle doesn't change much). Adjust one and you're very likely adjusting the other two if you want to re-create the "stereo-ness" of an existing known pattern for that given sound angle.

NOLAfishwater · « **Reply #20 on:** July 15, 2012, 10:43:26 PM »

the NOLA wORTF mount is 27cm of spacing

Big Perm · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2012, 02:41:27 AM »

I have both mounts, they are not the same. the nola bar is wider. the schoeps bar is the same distance as a DIN bar, just at 110 degrees instead of 90. i run then them on top of each other when running 4ch mk5+mk22.

as far as indoor vs. outdoor, it really depends on where your located. if farther back, i would go with NOS, if closer up, 22g bar all the way...at least that's what i do....
a

acidjack · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:50:24 AM »

Quote from: Big Perm on July 16, 2012, 02:41:27 AM

I have both mounts, they are not the same. the nola bar is wider. the schoeps bar is the same distance as a DIN bar, just at 110 degrees instead of 90. i run then them on top of each other when running 4ch mk5+mk22.

as far as indoor vs. outdoor, it really depends on where your located. if farther back, i would go with NOS, if closer up, 22g bar all the way...at least that's what i do....
a

Thanks. This will be an outdoor OTS at the board, so seems NOS is safer.

Author Topic: Schoeps MK22 - placement & pattern experiences (Read 7834 times)

stevetoney