Topic: help me with my first schoeps MS recording (pic inside)

[Jhurlbs81]

Next weekend will be my first exposure to MS recording.  I'm pretty sure I have the mics set-up correctly, but had a few other questions; should I set the levels to the same gain on my pre then boost the side in post?  Or should I set the side level hotter so both channels are peaking around the same db level?  Also, I'm wondering what my best option is for wind protection, I don't have the WMS windscreen.  I have the big-ass shures, the b5's and some dead rats.  I'm thinking the Shures are out, so maybe the b5s with the rats?  Anyone want to lend me their WMS screen for the weekend? 

Thanks,
Jesse

[Scooter]

when I run m/s, i run both channels hot at the same level, just like i'm running stereo.  you still want as good of a s/n ratio as you can get.  Just to be clear, this is assuming of course that you are gonna matrix it in post, not on the fly.

[china_rider]

when I run m/s, i run both channels hot at the same level, just like i'm running stereo.  you still want as good of a s/n ratio as you can get.  Just to be clear, this is assuming of course that you are gonna matrix it in post, not on the fly.

Yep... That's how I do it also.

[easy jim]

I agree that you might as well maximize your headroom to an extent when capturing the tracks.  A couple things I'd keep in mind...

- When you matrix in post (recommended), you will have some summing from the combination of the mid with the side channels...so, if both the raw mid track and the raw side track peak near 0 dBFS, the summing may cause some of your peaks to clip.  It is better to leave at least 3-6 dB headroom on the raw tracks so you do not risk clipping from summing/matrixing the channels.
- Try not to make any gain adjustments during the show unless absolutely necessary...it seems to me much more of a PITA to adjust/re-balance awkward levels adjustments in post when recording m/s vs. regular stereo 2 track.

[Scooter]

I agree that you might as well maximize your headroom to an extent when capturing the tracks.  A couple things I'd keep in mind...

- When you matrix in post (recommended), you will have some summing from the combination of the mid with the side channels...so, if both the raw mid track and the raw side track peak near 0 dBFS, the summing may cause some of your peaks to clip.  It is better to leave at least 3-6 dB headroom on the raw tracks so you do not risk clipping from summing/matrixing the channels.

-Good point, agreed.  that's why i do it the old fashioned way.  multitrack prog, clone, invert, matrix the 3 chans.  then you have fader control over everything along with eq and plugins for all 3 tracks(i often eq the S chanels just a bit)!  w/ the MS decode plugin route, you gotta watch whats going on carefully and plan ahead like you say.

[boojum]

I am running the same mics.  I also balance the mics to the same levels and record them as two raw stereo tracks.  I use the Voxengo decoder/encoder/in-line preview plugin.  I can adjust the ratios within the preview and then decode it that way.  It is pretty easy.  R8tbrain is supposed to have a good MS decoder, too.  But I have not tried it.

I am pretty pleased with MS so far.  I find it is good up close in bad venues.  It is unobtrusive, easy and works.  I have also tried it flanked with omnis for acoustic for a sense of the room.  That works, too.

I would be interested in how it is working for you so keep us posted.

Cheers

[Jhurlbs81]

what are my options for MS plug-ins for Sound Studio for mac OSX?

I got the Soundhack:+Matrix but haven't tried it yet.  I'm taping Leah Randazzo Group at the Iron Horse on Saturday to give it try.  I'll keep you posted!

Thnks
+T
Jesse

[SmokinJoe]

With a V3, it's pretty easy to set the the levels exactly the same, even though one is running low.  That's what I do.  Then when you mix in post and you decide to create a mid/side 40/60 mix, you know that's what it is.  Personally, I think knowing this is more important that trying to squeak every last bit of S/n ratio out of a very quiet set of mics/pre... at least as a learning tool.

When I'm running knobs which don't have that degree of accuracy, I do what these other guys suggested, which probably means I am recording the side about 6db boosted up front, and then "mix to taste" afterward, with no idea what the actual mix is...

As an extreme example... imagine running M/S at an outdoor festival 200' from the stacks.  Basically, everything is coming into the mid and nothing is coming into the side.  If you crank the side gain up by 20db you can get some sound, but of course, all you are getting is off axis coloration.  If you mix that 50/50 it will sound like crap.  Recorded as I mentioned in the first paragraph, with the side contributing almost nothing, will sound very mono, but it will sound 'right'.

[boojum]

Wouldn't 200' from the stacks sound pretty mono regardless of how it is recorded?  And do the stacks always pump out stereo?  Sometimes it is just tow monos.

[Scooter]

your source does not have to be stereo to make a stereo recording of it that has a sense of space.  even if the PA is mono, you will get sounds/frequencies arriving at different times from all over the venue, hence sense of placement/space in your stereo recording.  studio cats quite often mic acc guitars and pianos in M/S.  but you are right in that a M/S recording 200 ft back, will not really sound all that great.