Topic: Shoulders or hat ?

[mfrench]

OK,... I cave - heres my stealth tip: A hat will get you a nice visit with security.

If improperly mounted and/or a poor selection in style is exercised. 

I'm tired of answering questions of stealthing.  Use your mind, the rest will follow.

[page]

I've been busted, my partner has been busted. I can name a half dozen more people that have been busted wearing a hat (all top notch stealthers). Thats an archaic method.
There are way better ways - but as a stealther ::zipped lips::

I'll agree with that. It's not the best method for gaining height and stealthing, especially in this day and age. Attending the symphony with a french barrette (or top hat for that matter) does you no favors for example. 

[illconditioned]

OK,... I cave - heres my stealth tip: A hat will get you a nice visit with security.

If improperly mounted and/or a poor selection in style is exercised. 

As far as:

I run open

I'll be running open too : but I live in a country where there's no dedicated spot for tapers and using professionnal stuff is just out of my budget...

Ok, so if your going to be open taping, which (just to make sure we are all on the same page) means that your equipment can be seen without (much) penalty or flak, then I'd drop around $30 and buy a small stand, or a superclamp and pole (to clamp to your chair), then tape your mics to the pole/stand and run it directly in front of you so you don't obstruct anyone else's view.

If thats not an option, then I'd go for hat over shoulders for sonic results. Been there, done that, have the tapes.

Now, if you think your going to be penalized or kicked out by recording this event, then your not running open and you have a different environment that affects your question.

Almost all gigs I attend are either open or at least not very fussy.  I just use a hat so I can keep the mics on and not worry about them.

That said, I have never got flak from anyone.  It is the people holding up video cameras that are more likely to be called out by security (or the artists!).  It is not even recording, but just annoying or distracting other patrons that will get you in trouble IMO.  That is why I would never try to run a stand from my seat or fob.  Just wear the hat.

  Richard

[Scooter123]

I've used both.

If you shoulder stealth, you will have a number of challenges to overcome.

1.  Physical Connection.  Your mikes are physically attached to your body, and presumably you will have a sweater over them, so there will be contact with clothes which will create a rubbing sound.  I've built somethng to overcome this.  PM if you want details.

2.  Lack of Highs.  You are at shoulder height, so unless you are super tall, most highs will be muffled.

3.  You can see them.  Even smaller caps will be visible as a bump. 

I use a hat now. 

[Belexes]

To all the hat mount folks: keep your heads STILL.  I have heard recordings like they mounted their mics on Stevie Wonder's head and wonder why they even bothered.

[illconditioned]

To all the hat mount folks: keep your heads STILL.  I have heard recordings like they mounted their mics on Stevie Wonder's head and wonder why they even bothered.

Sorry about that .

  Richard

[deadheaded]

i think i do a pretty ok job being a human mic stand.

[stevetoney]

Having mics on a hat doesn't mean you have to keep your head still.

When a girl with big boobs and a low cut blouse walks by, I just lift my hat off my head and watch the bouncing walk on by!  Not gonna miss out on everything for the sake of the recording. 

Also, I used to try to advise people to keep discussions stealth stealth, but others don't worry about it, so why should I?  As long as you're not blatant about breaking rules and laws and infringing on people and bands, then I've stopped trying to be the stealth police around here and choose to join the discussion rather than pretend stealth doesn't exist.  Kinda pointless to pretend it doesn't exist anyway, isn't it...and as many have pointed out, many stealthers aren't doing it to get around any rules.

[sunjan]

I think someone would have to have golden ears to tell the difference between a hat mount and shoulder mount recording in a side by side comparison.  I'm not in the head/hat mount camp because it's not too much fun holding your head still for a 90 minute+ performance.

YMMV. I definitely hear the difference when listening to fellow "shoulder tapes" from the same shows that I recorded 25 cm higher up.
And I can keep my head still. Tap your foot if you want to dig the music. 

[Belexes]

Having mics on a hat doesn't mean you have to keep your head still.

When a girl with big boobs and a low cut blouse walks by, I just lift my hat off my head and watch the bouncing walk on by!  Not gonna miss out on everything for the sake of the recording.

I like boobs as much as the next guy, but when I am taping I'm all business. I'll track down those fun bags after I am finished with the recording.

[Belexes]

YMMV. I definitely hear the difference when listening to fellow "shoulder tapes" from the same shows that I recorded 25 cm higher up.

Same position in the venue, same mics?  I think side by side with everything equal, it is difficult to tell between the two.  One of these days I will open tape with the same mics, both hat and shoulder and post some samples.

[fleish]

Having mics on a hat doesn't mean you have to keep your head still.

When a girl with big boobs and a low cut blouse walks by, I just lift my hat off my head and watch the bouncing walk on by!  Not gonna miss out on everything for the sake of the recording. 

Also, I used to try to advise people to keep discussions stealth stealth, but others don't worry about it, so why should I?  As long as you're not blatant about breaking rules and laws and infringing on people and bands, then I've stopped trying to be the stealth police around here and choose to join the discussion rather than pretend stealth doesn't exist.  Kinda pointless to pretend it doesn't exist anyway, isn't it...and as many have pointed out, many stealthers aren't doing it to get around any rules.

I've only worn the hat one day for some outdoor festi shows. I know I was moving my head plenty (some people dance, I head-bob), but am not sure if that resulted in a poor sound or if it was the other factors (mics being in a hat, no screens, etc). I like the idea of lifting the hat up for a minute to hold still to be able to turn my head completely away from the stage to enjoy the scenery.

[su6oxone]

I like boobs as much as the next guy, but when I am taping I'm all business.

Totally agree.  You need discipline to pull a good non-stand tape. 

[KenH]

Yes, that's why I was saying "kind of" ORTF

A guy over at the stereophonic zoom thread says this :

I used to think that ORTF or DINa was the way to go w/ my mics in general, but after reading (and re-reading!) this document, and trying things like 40deg angle+35cm distance, and 60deg/30cm, my recordings are less boomy, so far.

I haven't used 110 deg / 17cm since I tried increased distance / decreased angle when not running stage lip or onstage based on recommendations I read here and on the Stereophonic Zoom paper.  Really like the results with say, 40 deg/35cm, which, according to the Stereophonic Zoom Figure 9, results in an SRA of about +-50 deg, with angular distortion of 5.  These numbers are basically the same with ORTF 110 deg / 17cm.  I find ORTF to be fantastic when onstage, but from further back, prefer increased distance / decreased angle (more direct sound vs reverberant sound...).

A couple of examples, fwiw, http://www.archive.org/details/cb32009-09-11.km184s.v3.hdp2 and http://www.archive.org/details/nrps2009-02-27.km184.v3.flac16

[fandelive]

A couple of examples, fwiw, http://www.archive.org/details/cb32009-09-11.km184s.v3.hdp2 and http://www.archive.org/details/nrps2009-02-27.km184.v3.flac16

Very nice recordings, thank you for sharing