Topic: Help a newbie out?

[Aladar]

I'm kind of confused with the abbreviations.. CSC are stealthy cardioids and CSB are binaurals? I assume we are talking low cost ones, right?

I sure don't want to spenfd muhc time post-processing.. so do you think Sonys? It's all the same price range, but I don't want to get the wrong one.. Would the Sony need Batt box too?

[jbell]

It you are spending $100 I would go $50 more and get the deal on the MTII in the retail section if it is still available!  Then you can have 24bit.

[Aladar]

It you are spending $100 I would go $50 more and get the deal on the MTII in the retail section if it is still available!  Then you can have 24bit.

Nah, that's too much.. I will get MTII when I upgrade, but I want this one for the starting rig - because, if anything happens and I won't tape, I will be left with good 20GB MP3 player..

(I think I will get stoned to death here now, but I can't tell the difference between 16bit and 24bit anyway.. so no use in that..)

[attheshow]

I use a Sony ECM-719 sometimes. Honestly, I've gotten some decent tapes with it, and would recommend it as a starter mic in your budget.

Advantages:
Does not require a battery box, you insert a small watch battery in the mic itself to power it.
Simple, single point stereo... it's basically point and shoot... no need to think about mic patterns.
Cardiod pattern should limit some crowd noise, boominess.

Disadvantages:
Frequency range is sub-optimal... 100Hz to 15kHz (human hearing is optimally 20hHz to 20kHz)
No way to change mic patterns
Not as small/easy to conceal as the other mics you are looking at.

Listen here for an example recorded with the ECM-719. Small club, about 10 feet from the stage:
http://www.archive.org/details/raq2007-09-14.ats.flac16

If you wanted to spend thousands of $$$ on equipment you could get sound like this: (same show, same taping location)
http://www.archive.org/details/raq2007-09-14

For me, the ecm-719 was a good starting point.

[Aladar]

Seems I will go with it, then - I don't really want to worry about mic patterns right now, because I know basically nothing, and I'd rather point and tape then having to experiment ending with useless tapes.. No battery box is a huge advantage, because I'm looking to spare any buck I can.. And honestly, I don't know if it's just me, but I liked tapes made with the Sony the best out of those three.. Thanks for advice.

EDIT:
So I looked around here for the sales and dropped a few mails, and so far it seems I will be gettting iRiver H120 ($100) with Sony ECM-719 (40€) - I think it's great price and will get me some listenable tapes, what do you think?

[fandelive]

So I looked around here for the sales and dropped a few mails, and so far it seems I will be getting iRiver H120 ($100) with Sony ECM-719 (40€) - I think it's great price and will get me some listenable tapes, what do you think?

iRiver H120 is a very good option. Core Sound Low Cost Binaurals might give you better results than Sony's ECM-719 which has very poor high frequencies response.

Saying that, I started with a Sony ECM-717 (older brother of the 719) myself. When it's about recording an intimate acoustic showcase given in front of 100 people by a band that allow taping and that you sit front row, you're gonna be very satisfied. But not for more (loud hard rock or metal shows, and so on...).

Low cost binaurals are a better option for a newbie that is looking for versatile mics that will give you honorable results (+ they are highly conceable).

[rhinowing]

I've gotta recommend these: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

I've pulled some absolutely great recordings with them, and only run about $50 bucks

[fandelive]

There you go : http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,26377.0.html.
Dynamic Audio omnis + battery box with bass roll-off option.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) those are the same panasonic omnidirectional caps than SP-BMC-2, Giant Squid Omnis...

[rhinowing]

I always thought the sp-bmc-2 was a wm-61a cap?

[Aladar]

iRiver H120 is a very good option. Core Sound Low Cost Binaurals might give you better results than Sony's ECM-719 which has very poor high frequencies response.

Saying that, I started with a Sony ECM-717 (older brother of the 719) myself. When it's about recording an intimate acoustic showcase given in front of 100 people by a band that allow taping and that you sit front row, you're gonna be very satisfied. But not for more (loud hard rock or metal shows, and so on...).

Low cost binaurals are a better option for a newbie that is looking for versatile mics that will give you honorable results (+ they are highly conceable).

Well, I actually listened to some tapes made with ECM-719, and they sounded mighty fine to me.. Most of them were metal/industrial/punk..
The big advantage is that I won't need a battery box - I'm on HUGE budget, so even the extra 30 will do a lot to me.. Maybe it's just that I have bad repros so I don't hear the frequency difference?

On the other hand, the LCBs sounded horribly dull to me on most tapes I downloaded.. the sound was horribly "distant" and lacked any depth, and it was taped with preamp as well I think..

[acidjack]

[/quote]

Thanks, I'll look into it - Though, the thing is I would take this as a last resort, because anthing can happen at the gigs and the last thing I would want is having to pay broken Edirol R-9 (those things are ridiculously expensive here) and mics to someone..
[/quote]

The R-09HR is pretty tough to break - I had a cop throw mine on the ground once (long story, but they mistook the R-09HR for a package of dope and tried to arrest me until they figured out what it was) and it was fine.  Unless you are in the middle of mosh pits all the time, you should be fine. Even in a moshpit, just protect the gear a little. But if you are taping, you shouldn't be in a mosh pit anyway.  I think most of the other recorders are pretty sturdy also.  The JB3 maybe a touch less so because it has that plastic clamshell design and a hard drive in it, and a hard drive is more susceptible to being damaged than something that is fully solid state.

[fandelive]

Well, I actually listened to some tapes made with ECM-719, and they sounded mighty fine to me.. Most of them were metal/industrial/punk..
On the other hand, the LCBs sounded horribly dull to me on most tapes I downloaded..

Well,
as long as you are pleased with the results, you've made the right choice

Getting good results while taping a live show also has a lot to do with the sound and crowd at venues and you standing at the best spot.

[Aladar]

Well, guess it's decided, the iRiver was sold, so I'm without a recorder..

thanks for help anyway.

[sunjan]

Well, guess it's decided, the iRiver was sold, so I'm without a recorder..

OK, here's my take on a ultra-low budget rig:
$23 + s/h: Panasonic omnis (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110436418804, ebay seller micro_sound, doesn't list Europe as shipping destination but maybe you can haggle)

$70 + s/h: going rate for H320 on ebay (with a bit of patience).
or
$75 + s/h: going rate for Sony MZ-NH700 on ebay (with a bit of patience). Built in mic preamp and 16/44.

Recommended additions:
add a Church bbox ($30 + s/h) or a Church pre ($100 and upwards) to this for better powering and gain.

For analog taping, it makes no sense to go for a JB3. Compared with a H320, they cost the same but the H320 has better ADC and 24dB of analog gain.

[Aladar]

Well, guess it's decided, the iRiver was sold, so I'm without a recorder..

OK, here's my take on a ultra-low budget rig:
$23 + s/h: Panasonic omnis (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110436418804, ebay seller micro_sound, doesn't list Europe as shipping destination but maybe you can haggle)

$70 + s/h: going rate for H320 on ebay (with a bit of patience).
or
$75 + s/h: going rate for Sony MZ-NH700 on ebay (with a bit of patience). Built in mic preamp and 16/44.

Recommended additions:
add a Church bbox ($30 + s/h) or a Church pre ($100 and upwards) to this for better powering and gain.

For analog taping, it makes no sense to go for a JB3. Compared with a H320, they cost the same but the H320 has better ADC and 24dB of analog gain.

I can't find any H320 on ebay, except one.. I think it will be pretty hard to get..
Also, I decided I don't want just a recorder for my frist rig, I want an MP3 player that can record PCM recordings.. thasts why the iRivers would be ideal for me.. are there any other alternatives to it? It seems pretty hard to get sofar..