Topic: recording my friend's band (with a sample now)

[jethro bo deen]

My point is don't necessarily seek ancient and old stuff...     But if you or someone you know has that laying around and its functional and free to use...Give it a go  and Record.       The old dbx equipped Technics cassette decks circa '81-'85 recorded pretty good with dbx switched on (gave much higher signal to noise ratio Around 92db / Dolby B was around 60 & DolbyC was maybe 70)   
Anyway using One-Point Stereo MICs (uni Elect Condenser)  like  Technics RP-3210E   or even Radio Shack Realistic 33-919a    gave decent results   although there were advantages using separate condenser mics for L & R inputs .       Today's  AT-822  or AT-8022 is similar in design but no doubt likely better.
The point is whether you are using MD,  or analog Cassette, or Reel or perhaps DAT,  or just scavenging the Stereo Audio Track from a HD or non HD camcorder,   IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, IF THE AUDIO IS GOOD.          The First Step is to start capturing audio with whatever equipment you've got.     Experiment with microphone placement    and  models of mics.    NEVER USE DYNAMIC MICS    Only use Condenser Mics    as dynamics won't give you the clarity/detail and preciseness.         
Get Started First.    Then once you learn about setting levels properly, and how mic placement and type of mic (Omni or Uni-Card) have a huge impact,  then move on and Spend Whatever You Like  Becoming An Expert Hobbyist/Quasi-recording engineer.     Nothing is wrong with MD as a start if you've already got one.   

[fmaderjr]

Nothing is wrong with MD as a start if you've already got one.   

The mics are the most important thing in the chain. With good mics, standard MD can sound great.

Can be a pain in the ass to use though. Disc change after 81 minutes, no easy way to upload to computer, no way to change record levels without putting machine in pause with most of the old Sony MD's, etc.

[runonce]

Don't overthink the thing.       Just utilize your portable MD machine,   a camcorder or even perhaps an ancient tape deck with mic inputs to try and capture your live gig.       I've been recording for 35+ years and way back when,  we just plugged condenser mics into the open reel Akai,  or later in early '80's using Technics dbx equipped tape decks.       You'd be surprised if mic placement was good and levels were set properly , we mostly got good recordings.
MD is certainly good enough to get something useful.    I know I've owned one since the '90's.   I have several   and I still use my Sharp MD-MT821 from time to time.    You can build a cheap mic from two WM-55 Panasonic elements from DigiKey  or   MICROSOUND.INC (ebaystore) sells a pretty good StereoY-MIC Recording Concerts, Pansonic Uni's   for about $23.
Then just Equalize your MD recordings as needed.      Don't Wait Until You Get Top Quality Stuff Or Otherwise You'll Miss Too Many Quality Recordings.     Despite the snobbish attitudes that you need Top Notch Stuff, ----You can get some really good stuff with primitive equipment ,  provided you use it to the best of its recording capabilities.     Its also a good way to start   and learn,....

Yeah...I remember my first day on taperssection.com...

[runonce]

NEVER USE DYNAMIC MICS   

Nonsense...I'd trade any of my mics for a set of Senn421s...

And frankly - if you're just starting out...use what you have...

If all you can lay your hands on is some 57s...go for it.

[fmaderjr]

MD is certainly good enough to get something useful.    I know I've owned one since the '90's.   I have several   and I still use my Sharp MD-MT821 from time to time. 
 
Then just Equalize your MD recordings as needed.     ...

You can make something way better than "useful" with a Sharp Mini-Disc and good mics. No need to equalize just because you recorded with MD. The Sharps were way better than the pre Hi-MD Sony's and even provided more plug in power than most of today's flash recorders so you could usually get good results mic in without a battery box.

I often recorded at HI-SP with my Hi MD to avoid a disc change and I'd bet almost nobody could tell tell difference between that & PCM mode.

[gkatz]

ok yea I am going to buy a BB, maybe a CA-UBB or one of the SP's. Maybe I should look/post in the yardsale.

I gotta ask...do you really need such tiny mics? Unless you see yourself becoming a stealther...not sure thats the way to go...

I actually do see myself stealthing in the future. I think with the MD and a BB that would be fine.

thanks everyone for the input

[dgale]

Despite the snobbish attitudes that you need Top Notch Stuff,

Whoever said anything about needing top notch stuff?  The above input really had nothing to do with the specifics of the mics and recorder he should use - the point was that no matter what two-track mic recording you make, a band with a drum kit, half-Marshall stack etc. playing rock and punk in a living room at a party is not likely to yield a recording that will be suitable for a demo.  It doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it and make a tape and see what happens, but don't get the expectations up for anything approaching demo quality.  It has much more to do with the gear they are playing in the room and environment they are playing then the gear used to record.

As for the snobbish attitudes part, I've been a member here for over 7 years and don't really recall people throwing snobbish attitudes around toward folks with lesser gear then they...but how would someone who just made their first two posts today have any idea what occurs around here?  Perhaps you should get to know the place a bit before you coming swinging with the tude.

[gkatz]

It doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it and make a tape and see what happens, but don't get the expectations up for anything approaching demo quality.

yea my hopes are not that high right now, this is really my first venture into recording a band so I am just hoping for something that is listenable.

so the plan is that fmaderjr is gonna loan me some SP-BCM-2's, and like i said before I am getting a battery box. The MD is in the mail. I have a 6 foot stand and I plan on making a split omni bar from a meterstick and threaded adaptors I have. ill give that a run a little back from stage lip.

[dgale]

You should definitely be able to make something listenable and have fun doing it (which is the important part).  Have fun and don't be afraid to experiment with different approaches as you record subsequent shows - it's the best way to learn what works and what doesn't under different circumstances.  I've made some real clunker recordings over the years but also some gems...either way I'm always glad to experiment around and not settle for status quo.

[jethro bo deen]

My comment related to "snobbish attitude" was not directed towards anyone or particularly to this specific forum.    My post was prompted by what I've seen from my young (under 40 years old) musician friends,  who constantly claim that they would like to get a decent recording of their own group, but don't really try because they feel they don't have decent enough equipment .     What they fail to realize  is that even the equipment that they posess is more than capable, provided they know how to use it properly.
We got acceptable recordings with tape decks in the 1970's.      Minidisc is capable of at least that .     The abundance of 24 bit digital recorders in the less than $250 price range is amazing, even if their built in mics aren't great.    No argument that direct digital uploads for the modern digital recorders and even old hi-MD    are  much simpler and more advanced.      Regardless of whatever analog equip used,  tape or old MD (analog output only),  one can still get outstanding digital conversions using something as simple as Sony RCD-W500C  cd recording deck with SBM (superbitmapping) switched on.    Yeah its real time, slightly cumbersome as you gotta manually punch the disc track breaks  and you gotta use only Maxell gold colour MUSIC digital audio cdrs,  but you get Analog to Digital conversion that is second to none.            You can also use something like Easy Creator by Roxio/sonic or something similar but your soundcard's Analog To digital conversion isn't gonna equal RCD-500C with SBM switched on.
I'm old school in the transfer of tape and MD format,  choosing to run RCA outputs thru a 1982 era Numark EQ-2400  and  output #1 from Numark into  RCD-W500c     and outputs#2  to my 100w per channel SONY receiver and pair of 2-way KLH 8" woof +single tweet   to monitor/set eq of transfer.     Time consuming, sure  ,  but it works well,  and you get quality transfers.     Also if you transferring from old MD,  you've got the great editing/track moving capabilities of old MD.    I use the Sharp MD-Mt821 because they had better mic preamp than the Sony's did and Level Adjustment On Fly and Better LCD 'VU' display meters.      Transfer/Editing done on Sony Home MD deck simply because its easier, more user friendly, and its my opinion that the RCA outputs of the home deck give you cleaner connection than 1/8 stereo connection of the portables,  allowing cleaner sound from quality RCA cables.   
I've made "live albums" for some relatively respected bands with which I'm good friends  over the past decade using nothing but the Sharp MD-Mt821 and condenser mics.    Great quality stuff.     Electric Voodoo,     Ed Turner & Number 9,   and  The Suex Effect.     The Suex Effect's  Live On 8th Street, Augusta Ga  available as free download from their site was done entirely this way.     
The main thing is if you don't record the show, you've got zero chance at getting a good recording!   If you try you've probably got at least 40 to50% chance of a really good recording,  and the odds get better with more knowledge and better equipment and knowing how to use it.

[runonce]

My comment related to "snobbish attitude" was not directed towards anyone or particularly to this specific forum.    My post was prompted by what I've seen from my young (under 40 years old) musician friends,  who constantly claim that they would like to get a decent recording of their own group, but don't really try because they feel they don't have decent enough equipment .     What they fail to realize  is that even the equipment that they posess is more than capable, provided they know how to use it properly.
We got acceptable recordings with tape decks in the 1970's.      Minidisc is capable of at least that .     The abundance of 24 bit digital recorders in the less than $250 price range is amazing, even if their built in mics aren't great.    No argument that direct digital uploads for the modern digital recorders and even old hi-MD    are  much simpler and more advanced.      Regardless of whatever analog equip used,  tape or old MD (analog output only),  one can still get outstanding digital conversions using something as simple as Sony RCD-W500C  cd recording deck with SBM (superbitmapping) switched on.    Yeah its real time, slightly cumbersome as you gotta manually punch the disc track breaks  and you gotta use only Maxell gold colour MUSIC digital audio cdrs,  but you get Analog to Digital conversion that is second to none.            You can also use something like Easy Creator by Roxio/sonic or something similar but your soundcard's Analog To digital conversion isn't gonna equal RCD-500C with SBM switched on.
I'm old school in the transfer of tape and MD format,  choosing to run RCA outputs thru a 1982 era Numark EQ-2400  and  output #1 from Numark into  RCD-W500c     and outputs#2  to my 100w per channel SONY receiver and pair of 2-way KLH 8" woof +single tweet   to monitor/set eq of transfer.     Time consuming, sure  ,  but it works well,  and you get quality transfers.     Also if you transferring from old MD,  you've got the great editing/track moving capabilities of old MD.    I use the Sharp MD-Mt821 because they had better mic preamp than the Sony's did and Level Adjustment On Fly and Better LCD 'VU' display meters.      Transfer/Editing done on Sony Home MD deck simply because its easier, more user friendly, and its my opinion that the RCA outputs of the home deck give you cleaner connection than 1/8 stereo connection of the portables,  allowing cleaner sound from quality RCA cables.   
I've made "live albums" for some relatively respected bands with which I'm good friends  over the past decade using nothing but the Sharp MD-Mt821 and condenser mics.    Great quality stuff.     Electric Voodoo,     Ed Turner & Number 9,   and  The Suex Effect.     The Suex Effect's  Live On 8th Street, Augusta Ga  available as free download from their site was done entirely this way.     
The main thing is if you don't record the show, you've got zero chance at getting a good recording!   If you try you've probably got at least 40 to50% chance of a really good recording,  and the odds get better with more knowledge and better equipment and knowing how to use it.

Look out DSatz....looks like we have a new resident guru!

[itook2much]

As for the snobbish attitudes part, I've been a member here for over 7 years and don't really recall people throwing snobbish attitudes around toward folks with lesser gear then they...

Apparently I've read a number of posts you haven't, Dan.

I think it's eased up over the last coupla years, but there has been significant gear snobbery in the past.  Especially in regards to those who chose to use MD.

[12milluz]

As for the snobbish attitudes part, I've been a member here for over 7 years and don't really recall people throwing snobbish attitudes around toward folks with lesser gear then they...

Apparently I've read a number of posts you haven't, Dan.

I think it's eased up over the last coupla years, but there has been significant gear snobbery in the past.  Especially in regards to those who chose to use MD.

I've only been here a few months, but I have to say out of all the forums I've ever been a part of, this one has been the nicest and helpful to a newbie. I asked some dumb questions when I started out, but everyone who answered was kind and very helpful. I can't really speak to the "gear snobbery" but I must say this forum is a very nice one to be a part of at any experience level.

[admkrk]

As for the snobbish attitudes part, I've been a member here for over 7 years and don't really recall people throwing snobbish attitudes around toward folks with lesser gear then they...

Apparently I've read a number of posts you haven't, Dan.

I think it's eased up over the last coupla years, but there has been significant gear snobbery in the past.  Especially in regards to those who chose to use MD.

you mean as opposed to cassette? or lately dat? hell even hdd is getting laughed at these days. i'd call that more a lack of thick skin than snobbery. 

[itook2much]

Observation requires neither thick nor thin skin.