Topic: Arena Rock Show - To close to record?

[bravoland]

I'm going to an Arena Rock show in a few weeks. Ended up with 3rd Row (slightly stage left) tickets.  Is this to close to pull off a decent recording?
I have SP Cards with Tascam DR2D and CA Battery Box

[Shawn]

that's pretty close.

protip: get to the show early. go to your seat. wait for people to arrive. Find someone with tickets in the sweet spot. go up and ask them if they'd like to trade you their seats for seats in the third row.

[Belexes]

I'd opt to be further back from that, especially with cards.  Like the previous post stated, try and switch out with someone or find an open seat further back.

[acidjack]

....or try to acquire some omnis. 

[kfrinkle]

Fuck it man, its a rock show.  Suck it up and tape from the third row.

[toaster]

Fuck it man, its a rock show.  Suck it up and tape from the third row.

seriously. I stack taped a bunch of Tool shows about a decade ago and they came out killer. I was front row on the rail directly in front of the floor stack with CSB > TCD-D100. I didnt hear a better pull that tour

[kfrinkle]

Agreed.  For rock shows, you either do the equilateral triangle approach between you and the stacks, or you simply go hug a stack.  Thats it.

[Belexes]

Crowd noise can be a concern when you are that close (near the super-fans), but the cards are good for that. My concern would be that you'd be getting too much stage volume and not enough of the mix from either set of mains.

Acoustics in arenas are usually terrible, so I opt for cards in a big room. Omni's would be a good choice if you were very close to the mains.

[Chuck]

If there is an opening band, you will know right away if you are too close. If that's the case, find the sweet spot and trade with someone as others have suggested.

[bravoland]

thanks for all the replys i have some SP omni's as well . don't know why i didn't post that earlier.  i think i'll give it a shot. can't hurt for the experience.  omni's over cards i presume that close?

[Belexes]

Most here will say omni's, but just know that they will pickup everything around you.  You have to hope for a polite crowd.

[RyanJ]

I would tape anyways. You might just be amazed with the outcome you get.

[Teen Age Riot]

I would recommend heading to one of the stacks (if you're not already close to one).

Since your seat is in 3rd row, it shouldn't be a problem to swap seats with someone who is in line with one of the stacks and maybe 2-3 rows further back or even in the same row. I've done this a few times.

This way, you won't record a lot of ambiance, which is usually a good thing in an arena, and it will be louder, which will help drowning out crowd noise.

If you can only bring one set of mics, I would probably choose cardioids, but omnis might sound better if you are extremely close. (Then again, I'm not familiar with those SP mics.)

[aleal5687]

Doesn't the dr2d record 4tracks? I say use both the cards and omnis and see which one sounds better.

[ArchivalAudio]

that's pretty close.

protip: get to the show early. go to your seat. wait for people to arrive. Find someone with tickets in the sweet spot. go up and ask them if they'd like to trade you their seats for seats in the third row.

yep
got to like 10 or 12 row  or may be 15 center and seee if you can give them an upgrade!
you can usually find come one who will trade, then you are less likely to be  seen in the 3rd row and be in the sweet spot.
DO IT!
--Ian

[doodee]

that's pretty close.

protip: get to the show early. go to your seat. wait for people to arrive. Find someone with tickets in the sweet spot. go up and ask them if they'd like to trade you their seats for seats in the third row.

I consider this a mighty fine strategy that has proven viable in the past.

[hi and lo]

If you're that close to the stage, you'll want to be in front of a stack and not centered. The results from being directly on the stacks can be fantastic and will generally result is less crowd noise simply due to the 'signal-to-noise' ratio.

Best tape I ever made was TOOL literally on the rail with km140s. What you sacrifice in stereo imaging you get back in less crowd noise and reverberation.

[kfrinkle]

If you're that close to the stage, you'll want to be in front of a stack and not centered. The results from being directly on the stacks can be fantastic and will generally result is less crowd noise simply due to the 'signal-to-noise' ratio.

Best tape I ever made was TOOL literally on the rail with km140s. What you sacrifice in stereo imaging you get back in less crowd noise and reverberation.

You ever release that Tool recording? (shameless promotion of tooldriveproject.net)

[Gutbucket]

Step off spammer!

reported. [edit- man, you fellers are quick. I must be slow on the reply!]


Going for proximity to a stack is the safest bet in this scenario.  Farther back in the sweetspot or possibly off to the side on-axis with a hanging array can also work but are more of a gamble if you can't hear what it sounds like there before commiting to the location.  If you luck out there could be a small front fill directly in front of you on stage and you'll be set with your current seats.  Not likely but possible. All options to consider. Get in early.

[DiggerinVA]

Play it by ear and tape where it feels right. In 1984 I taped the Dead from 2nd row in front of Phil it is with out a doubt one of my favorite tapes. The sound was basically off the monitors as the PA was was flown above and behind us. Oh I was using card's.

[mloewen]

I got Rush from 3rd row center and it was excellent except I messed up and got the mics unplugged for part of the show.
I had minor crowd noise on it with Cards.

[setboy]

Play it by ear and tape where it feels right. In 1984 I taped the Dead from 2nd row in front of Phil it is with out a doubt one of my favorite tapes. The sound was basically off the monitors as the PA was was flown above and behind us. Oh I was using card's.

Is that tape available somewhere?

[DiggerinVA]

It was distributed by trades back in the day. The master is about 20 feet away from me as I type. Teac Me 20 mics and a D-6.

[setboy]

It was distributed by trades back in the day. The master is about 20 feet away from me as I type. Teac Me 20 mics and a D-6.

might be worth transferring that master sometime if it never made it into the digital world. just a thought 

[F.O.Bean]

I say hug a stack.......

[Drifter1]

you can achieve amazing results at close range if you know what your doing....I myself prefer walking into the Mouth of the Beast with mics up....its a learned behavior though....one has to really teach themselves to use their ear like a tuning fork...

[DiggerinVA]

you can achieve amazing results at close range if you know what your doing....I myself prefer walking into the Mouth of the Beast with mics up....its a learned behavior though....one has to really teach themselves to use their ear like a tuning fork...

A pair of cards wherever it "sounds good" makes good tapes. Crowd is part of the show, yea I know chatty sucks, but crowd noise can work well too. It is a learned behavior.

I transfer those older shows when ever I get a request for one. I did play that one for someone in the last few months. It was amazing listing to the way those songs changed over the next few yews. Especially the pace that "Touch of Grey" was played at, that night. The Coke must have been flowing.

[cashandkerouac]

I transfer those older shows when ever I get a request for one. I did play that one for someone in the last few months. It was amazing listing to the way those songs changed over the next few yews. Especially the pace that "Touch of Grey" was played at, that night. The Coke must have been flowing.

that's funny.  "Touch" was never one of my favorite songs to see at a Dead show, but the early versions were better (and definitely faster).

as for the main question at hand, i agree with the recommendations by others to swap seats (15th -20th row if it's a big arena).  i'm going to see Clapton in Sacramento and San Jose in early March and my seats are right in that zone.  with the great seats that i have and the good odds of getting a very nice recording, i hope i have polite neighbors.  if not, cardioid mics always help to minimize crowd noise.   

[bonghitwillie]

the closer the better!!!  personally i have been doing stealth mics on stage.  the trick is getting vocals and a good mix of everything. they usually have front fill spkrs at most venues so that you get a good mix up front.  up front you get the stage sound (which is best) plus the front fills.  if you could get in front of a front fill, you will make one the best recordings you will ever hear.  forget that sweet spot logic.  that is bs.  you get too much hall reverb. i got recordings that would blow your mind made up close.  i am using omni's though.

[setboy]

the closer the better!!!  personally i have been doing stealth mics on stage.  the trick is getting vocals and a good mix of everything. they usually have front fill spkrs at most venues so that you get a good mix up front.  up front you get the stage sound (which is best) plus the front fills.  if you could get in front of a front fill, you will make one the best recordings you will ever hear.  forget that sweet spot logic.  that is bs.  you get too much hall reverb. i got recordings that would blow your mind made up close.  i am using omni's though.

You are assuming that  most venues have "fills". Most of the venues I tape in don't have such things. So, closer the better doesn't always fit, but if you can pull off a fill speaker i could see it working.
You must tape in bad rooms, because the "sweet spot logic" is not bs in a good sounding room.

[F.O.Bean]

I disagree w/ BHW, I always record in the sweet spot[almost anyways] and I almost ALWAYS pull a smokin' recording. I had the chance to record stage-lip for the DKG's, and instead I recorded from the "sweet spot" and I am SO GLAD I did. It came out amazing The venue has great sound tho...

[acidjack]

Yes, this can be true IF there are fills providing good vocals. Otherwise, you're screwed in this scenario. I did a show open where my DPAs were approx ORTF and almost directly over a vocal monitor, with an SBD feed on the other two channels providing only vocals.  Without the SBD feed, there would have been way too little on the vocals. In fact, every time I've run onstage, I had to have an SBD feed to fill vocals.  If you're running "stealth" mics onstage, I'm not sure how you compensate for that, since I'm assuming you're not getting a feed and may(?) be recording without permission, in which case you can't optimally place the mics...

That said, when it works, onstage is pretty amazing.  I'm about to post a Soulive recording from a couple weeks ago that just flat out smokes...

the closer the better!!!  personally i have been doing stealth mics on stage.  the trick is getting vocals and a good mix of everything. they usually have front fill spkrs at most venues so that you get a good mix up front.  up front you get the stage sound (which is best) plus the front fills.  if you could get in front of a front fill, you will make one the best recordings you will ever hear.  forget that sweet spot logic.  that is bs.  you get too much hall reverb. i got recordings that would blow your mind made up close.  i am using omni's though.

You are assuming that  most venues have "fills". Most of the venues I tape in don't have such things. So, closer the better doesn't always fit, but if you can pull off a fill speaker i could see it working.
You must tape in bad rooms, because the "sweet spot logic" is not bs in a good sounding room.