Topic: Synching 2 + 2

[acidjack]

^^i do alot of 4 channe stuff too..ive found my 414's ~3ft split omnis with my mg210's ortf/pas makes for a fine mix at an outside gig.  the omnis inside are not the best but ive ran split subcards a couple of times with tolerable results..

I agree that for outdoor work, adding some split omnis to a 4-mic mix can really be a benefit - because I think you often do still want the more direct sound from a hyper or card as well. 

[tcf]

My main 2 ch rig is mics-audient Mico-702. Each box has a word clock option. I can also break the chain up and run the sbd into the 702, mics- Mico-digi handheld, synched by wordclock. I like this rig because I travel light a lot and can just use the 702 by itself, or re-bag it for 4 ch.

[F.O.Bean]

This is why I bought a Tascam DR2D Steve Still have my 2 x M10s for taping 2 diff stages at festies, but have my DR2D to record 4 chan at local shows. And for $125.00/Shipped for a DR2D, you CANNOT beat it

[Gutbucket]

I somehow overlooked this thread.

Continuing the slightly OT discussion-
I like running multiple channels for multiple reasons, and one of the important guiding ones is this:  I can keep a standard 'base-line' mic configuration and add to that to compare different approaches to my standard 'known' config.  That is hugely helpful in leaning which works better where.  But beyond that, I often set up the other channels not just as a totally separate pairs, but also with the possibility of combining things in potentially interesting ways.  A good example mentioned here already is spaced omnis + a center pair.  Either can stand alone, or I can play around with combining them.  If the center pair is coincident, that makes for even more options since I can simply sum the center pair to form a single forward faced mono center mic (M/S technique) and end up with a three channel config that avoids potential center phasing issues.  Recording more than four channels the potential combinations become many and interesting if you think about it a bit in advance.

Spaced omnis is an obvious thing to add to a favorite near-spaced or coincident pair, which generally has less potential phase issues than combining two near spaced pairs.

But, I want to mention an alternate idea for 'expanding on a known good configuration' which might be interesting for those of you interested in trying some three channel approaches by building upon your favorite near-spaced stereo pair setup- It's another Michael Williams approach (the Stereo Zoom guy) I read about in one of his AES papers awhile back which he calls 'Magic Arrays'.  Magic because they are multichannel mic arrays which can produce a number of different target outputs without changing the array.  In short that means that if you only keep the L/R pair and throw all the other channels away, you have uncompromised stereo, but if you keep the center mic too, you have 3-channel stereo which can be played back as either regular 2-channel stereo or 3 channel L/C/R.  Add more mics and you have the option for 5 or 7 channel surround or not, keep just the center mic and you have mono, etc. 

I don't mention this because of the multichannel playback thing though, since I know not many here are interested in that. I mention it because I think it would be a good approach for combining multiple channels without problems for two channel playback if you care to, without compromising your standard two mic config.

Most of the arrays use combinations of mic angle, spacing and time offset built on the Stereo Zoom stuff- meaning you typically need to put the center mic out in front of the stereo pair and apply a time delay to the center channel to get it to line up correctly and play nice.  But it's amazing to me that such a system can work like this at all, in that the imaging of the two channel pair matches that of the three channel setup and isn't screwed up by adding the center mic without changing the configuration of the other two.  Here's a link to a PDF of his Magic Arrays AES paper, which he's generously made freely available along with his other papers on his website.  Diagrams of the configurations start on page 14.  You can ignore/eliminate the two rear facing microphones which add 5 channel compatibility.  The arrays shown are limited to those using microphones with identical patterns for all channels in the array.  The L/R pair are common configurations anyone around here would be familiar with.  I haven't had a chance to give this a try but I'd like to, especially since the approach fits perfectly with my 'build upon what works rather than scraping and starting completely anew’ philosophy.

[bonghitwillie]

i do this with seperate recorders. usually sbd and stage mics. i then use final cut pro to sync them. i find that you lose a frame every 5 minutes or so. i just snip or add a frame at song breaks and it works well.

[SmokinJoe]

For the last 4 years I've had an R4 and love it for mics + sbd. Like Jack, I run that way most of the time.   I used mics/ua5/h120 + sbd/r09 about a dozen times before getting the r4 and I would hate to go back. I bought another identical Busman hybrid R4 for my daughter to use, and on the few occasions when I've wanted to align them in post I've been very happy to find they within .002 or .003 secs over an hour or so set. I'm tickled pink.