Topic: Retro taping: Old and new stuff (Nakamichi 550 content)

[Popmarter]

Hi,

I am playing with this idea to record a gig with both a digital recorder and a Nakamichi 550. The Nakamichi is gonna be restored by a friend to get it work like new (with good cleaning, tape-aligment , new belts etc.). Other toys in use are the SD mixpre-D, M10 and R44. Together with a pair of Milab VM-44 Links. Any suggestions how to hook this up?

My idea was to get the Milabs powered 48v by the Mixpre-D and take the XLR-out to the line in of the Nakamichi. At the same time the Line-out from the Mixpre-D to the M10.

I know that is gonna work, but I am not using the microphones-input from the Nakamichi. Will this result in any difference soundwise? (Mic in vs Line in ....discussion?). If by any change there is, is there a way to hook up the Milabs with the Nakamichi microphone inputs? (there are 3, made for use with the Nakamichi CM300 mics.).

Hope to hear some comment on this. Anyone ever tried something similar recently?

[acidjack]

I think you're going to make some very nice recordings 

If you have a pre in front of it, I'd think you'd WANT to be using the line in on the Nak, if not have to.  I don't know if it's a powered mic-in or not, but either way, I would avoid it like the plague.  I say this especially because the MixPre runs hot and you will want the lower sensitivity input (i.e., the line in) taking that signal. 

Should sound cool.  Assuming the analog deck is working properly, I bet it will sound "better" than the digital version....

[F.O.Bean]

i would think youre good to go

[darby]

I think you're going to make some very nice recordings 

Should sound cool.  Assuming the analog deck is working properly, I bet it will sound "better" than the digital version...

but the best part of the 550 was having 3 mic inputs... just sayin' 

[Popmarter]

I think you're going to make some very nice recordings 

Should sound cool.  Assuming the analog deck is working properly, I bet it will sound "better" than the digital version...

but the best part of the 550 was having 3 mic inputs... just sayin' 

Thanks for the comments, looking forward to test this!

Bit of a sidestep, did anyone try this recorder with different mics through the mic-input? Is there anything in general to say about the quality of these mic-input's, compared to modern ones?

[audBall]

If the gain stage is similar to the MX-100 mixer, I'd imagine the 550's inputs to sound pretty good. Unfortunately, the unit will not provide phantom power so, unless you have a phantom supply for the Milabs (or battery-powered mics), the mic inputs likely wouldn't get used. 

[darby]

Thanks for the comments, looking forward to test this!

Bit of a sidestep, did anyone try this recorder with different mics through the mic-input? Is there anything in general to say about the quality of these mic-input's, compared to modern ones?

I patched off them a few times but only had the pleasure of running a 550 once
http://archive.org/details/gd1988-04-14.Senn421sAKG112.Darby.120456.Flac1644
I felt the mic pres were a considerable upgrade to the Sony D-5 but not as good as today's gear

I just figured if you're going retro, why not go all the way?... run some Sennheisers and/or Naks   

[Frequincy]

Just out of curiosity, what type of tape are you running?

[darby]

Just out of curiosity, what type of tape are you running?

the 550 never had Metal tape capability

[Frequincy]

Just out of curiosity, what type of tape are you running?

the 550 never had Metal tape capability

Sorry, I meant brand and Year of the formula assuming it's high bias.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

I just figured if you're going retro, why not go all the way?... run some Sennheisers and/or Naks 

 

There's a taper here in NYC named Marc who busts out a set of Senn 421's every now and then.  Pretty neat to see them flying up on a stand.

[Popmarter]

My eyes are on a pair of Nak Cm300's but I have to hear from the seller (it's not here btw). Really like to have a original pair (well 3 actually) that go with it. I have some new TDK SA90 tapes which is probably the best to use at this moment in time. since I am from Europe the main concern is to find a gig with open taping etc. And a set of very large batteries to run this baby. 

[DSatz]

In the summer of 1975 I did a fair amount of documentary recording with a Nakamichi 550 in Europe. The mike inputs are very low-noise but unbalanced. Interestingly they use TRS sockets, i.e. conceivably one could build miniature input transformers such as Beyers or Lundahls into the recorder without needing to change the sockets for use as balanced inputs. There is no form of microphone powering in the deck. The wide-range metering was a nice feature, the limiter was very effective, and overall the deck was quite reliable.

The center-channel mike input has to be used carefully--Nakamichi's published three-mike theory really makes sense only if you have three recording channels and three loudspeakers for playback--but I suppose the hardware (if you are very lucky in setting your relative record levels) can be adapted to other three-microphone approaches such as Decca Tree. I used it for feeding the signals from a radio mike into the center while making an overall stereo room recording with the left and right inputs. The results varied because again, you have to hit the center channel level just right, or it either dominates the recording (and makes it essentially mono) or else it just doesn't add what you hope it will add.

The two problems I had with the recorder were a certain low-level leakage of a high-frequency tone in playback--as I recall, this wasn't actually recorded on the tape, but was audible over headphones while recording--and the general difficulty of setting the bias and EQ accurately, which of course is a problem with two-head recorders generally. Also, the 550 is from the generation of deck that uses Nakamichi's old, non-standard EQ for tapes other than Type I, which makes any of those tapes recorded on their decks sound a little dull when played back on any other brand of cassette deck. (Conversely, this made their decks sound better than any other brand you compared them to in hi-fi showrooms, because they played tapes back a little brighter.)

The 550 unfortunately doesn't have Nakamichi's excellent dual-capstan mechanism, and of course a combined record/playback head can never be as good as two separate heads, since there are directly opposing design criteria for those two functions. But that was the compromise they made for the sake of acceptable battery life.

--best regards

[runonce]

Im wondering if a quality Type I, Normal bias tape with Dolby on, might be the best choice for this machine...like an Maxell XLIS

Wasnt the old NAK bias around 100?

Looking back - I only discovered the coolness of normal bias tape at the end the analog days...
I think we went on tour short a few blanks and ended up using some XLIS - and were really surprised how good they sounded.

I would also recommend a record...and immediately re-master discipline...
Make your recording - take it home...connect it to your digital recorder - and hit play...(maybe clean the heads in between.)

[DSatz]

runonce, any analog tape deck really should be set up by a technician for the specific kind of tape that you will be recording on. Dolby tracking depends on this; if you use tape that has, say, 3 dB higher output than the tape that the deck was calibrated for (TDK SD was the de facto standard for type II back then, as I recall), then the Dolby circuit will misjudge the playback levels relative to the preset calibration level, and the tape will sound noisier and a bit brighter than it should, though this varies with level (which subjectively makes it worse than if it stayed still).

The main advantage of Type I tape over Type II is that you can record signals that have unusual levels of high-frequency energy in them at somwhat higher levels without saturation, since the record pre-emphasis used for Type I tape is less.

The down side of Type I is that its more gradual playback de-emphasis curve allows about 4 dB more tape hiss to be heard at any given playback level, and the tapes themselves are generally more prone to high-frequency self-erasure with time.

--best regards