Topic: Chaining a preamp to a SP-SPSB-6

[RebelRebel]

From your reply to my "pipe organ" thread, I can see that you probably know what you are talking about. You also seem like a really nice person. Some are taken aback by the peddling of your gear in massive amounts. It doesnt bother me personally, if I had my own business id probably do the same thing. Its a good thing to believe in what you do. I think if you just back off on so much promotion and maybe just post more regular correspondence with members here youll have an easier time. (Believe me, I know) Best of luck man, and thanks for the insight on my issue.

I can see I still have alot to learn. thank you for taking the time to point a few of my mistakes out. I guess I am very proud of my equipment to a fault, that might turn people off from it. I will learn from what you have said and try and focus on my communication and my web site / ebay store front.

Thank you again for taking the time to point these things out.

Not True check out our specs on our preamps they are as good or better then any preamp made that operates on 9 volts

He's entitled to his opinion, as you're entitled to yours.  So - both your statements are true.  As is this one:  "good" specs do not necessarily equal "good" sound.

[Humbug]

I'd like to volunteer myself to try out your cardioid system* and report back - I currently record 4-5 gigs a month, mostly stealth, a few open on a stand, and typically from 100-3000 seaters.

I can run A:B comparisons against either CMC2(AT831)  or (shortly) AT933 mics, as I have two working Nomad JB3s.

Of course if you'd prefer someone closer to home, so be it.

Humbug

* I've asked before, but I'd like to know what mics you're using for this.

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

Thanks I will try to stop peddling my gear on here and actually try and help some people if I can.
 

From your reply to my "pipe organ" thread, I can see that you probably know what you are talking about. You also seem like a really nice person. Some are taken aback by the peddling of your gear in massive amounts. It doesnt bother me personally, if I had my own business id probably do the same thing. Its a good thing to believe in what you do. I think if you just back off on so much promotion and maybe just post more regular correspondence with members here youll have an easier time. (Believe me, I know) Best of luck man, and thanks for the insight on my issue.

I can see I still have alot to learn. thank you for taking the time to point a few of my mistakes out. I guess I am very proud of my equipment to a fault, that might turn people off from it. I will learn from what you have said and try and focus on my communication and my web site / ebay store front.

Thank you again for taking the time to point these things out.

Not True check out our specs on our preamps they are as good or better then any preamp made that operates on 9 volts

He's entitled to his opinion, as you're entitled to yours.  So - both your statements are true.  As is this one:  "good" specs do not necessarily equal "good" sound.

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

I would like to send you a pair of my mics and preamp for you to evaluate email mail me with your address. Allow a couple of weeks because it will take some time to get them built as this is my busy time of the year. As for what capsule I am using I don't talk about it. AT uses OEM capsules for some of the mics they make they will not disclose that info anymore then I would. Because its a very competitive market I am in, but I will say that they sound very good after I am finished with my modifications. I do things like replacing the fet re-tensioning the diaphram changing the dimentions of the back chamber and a few other little trade secrets. Some extra sheilding to bring the noise down to about 22db. The preamp has a linkwitz mod in it. Then there is the preamp it self 100% sheided in copper foil. 

I'd like to volunteer myself to try out your cardioid system* and report back - I currently record 4-5 gigs a month, mostly stealth, a few open on a stand, and typically from 100-3000 seaters.

I can run A:B comparisons against either CMC2(AT831)  or (shortly) AT933 mics, as I have two working Nomad JB3s.

Of course if you'd prefer someone closer to home, so be it.

Humbug

* I've asked before, but I'd like to know what mics you're using for this.

[Brian Skalinder]

I can see I still have alot to learn. thank you for taking the time to point a few of my mistakes out.

We all have a lot to learn, about a variety of topics.  Life is learning (or ought to be, IMO).  I wasn't so much trying to point out your "mistakes" (which carries a negative connotation), as identify opportunities for improvement.  We all have opportunities for improvement, both personally and professionally.

I guess I am very proud of my equipment to a fault, that might turn people off from it.

It's important to believe in your product.  Belief or pride in and of itself is not a "fault".  And actually, I have the opposite challenge right now:  I don't believe in the solution with which I'm affiliated at work, at least not how my current employer envisions it.  As such, I probably turn people off from it unintentionally.  But don't tell my boss!  I gather you're self-employed, and I must say - in many ways I'm envious.

I will learn from what you have said and try and focus on my communication and my web site / ebay store front.

I think even some relatively simple changes to the web presence will help.  I fully understand using the eBay storefront as the transaction mechanism.  I would first focus on the eBay listings' content, organization, and layout, though I'm not sure how much flexibility eBay provides in this regard.  Then maybe create a Church Audio website (www.churchaudio.com or some such) as an "organization front".  Include info about you, your company, your mission / goals.  Be sure to include appropriate metadata so others may find your site when searching for their gear.  At first, perhaps just provide product listings - barebones info - that redirects customers to the eBay side of things for detailed info and the actual transactions themselves.  Then eventually build up all the product info listings, details and all, within churchaudio.com proper (as opposed to eBay), but still manage the transactions themselves through eBay since that seems a convenient transaction vehicle.  But by that point, you have a dedicated CA presence, with full control over content, organization, etc., and only relying on eBay for the transaction itself.  Just some thoughts off the top of my head - some might be good ideas, some not so good, so take 'em or leave 'em as you see fit.

Thank you again for taking the time to point these things out.

I truly hope you're taking my comments as they're intended - good-natured and in good-faith.  I'm curious to hear Humbug's A:B comps!

[scoper]

Keep it up, guys - an intelligent, useful discourse!

I have a specific comment about Church Audio, based on my own experience -

1. Communication with customers needs improvement - when I bought my preamp from him it took several followup messages to get shipping data. As noted, Chris also has a tendency towards short, declaritive statements which don't specifically address the issue. This thread has already shown improvement in this regard.

2. My specific experience with his preamp - the preamp has two firm settings - +27db/-27db. There is no variable option to attenuate the +27db down a bit, which is an issue with my mics (AT853) which run fairly hot. Admittedly, that may be a lot to expect from a $45 product (looks like the price has gone up recently - that's what I paid a few months back). Competing preamps that allow for variable attenuation are considerably more expensive.

I ended up with an AD-20, since the range of +17 > +45 is variable, and should the +17 still be too much, I have level controls on my battery box to act as an attenuator. As he stated, you can't run the battery box in series with his preamp.

I have no reason to disbelieve his claims about the quality of his product - it just didn't work out well for me personally.

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

I do have a web site the URL is www.church-audio.ca thanks again for your comments.

I can see I still have alot to learn. thank you for taking the time to point a few of my mistakes out.

We all have a lot to learn, about a variety of topics.  Life is learning (or ought to be, IMO).  I wasn't so much trying to point out your "mistakes" (which carries a negative connotation), as identify opportunities for improvement.  We all have opportunities for improvement, both personally and professionally.

I guess I am very proud of my equipment to a fault, that might turn people off from it.

It's important to believe in your product.  Belief or pride in and of itself is not a "fault".  And actually, I have the opposite challenge right now:  I don't believe in the solution with which I'm affiliated at work, at least not how my current employer envisions it.  As such, I probably turn people off from it unintentionally.  But don't tell my boss!  I gather you're self-employed, and I must say - in many ways I'm envious.

I will learn from what you have said and try and focus on my communication and my web site / ebay store front.

I think even some relatively simple changes to the web presence will help.  I fully understand using the eBay storefront as the transaction mechanism.  I would first focus on the eBay listings' content, organization, and layout, though I'm not sure how much flexibility eBay provides in this regard.  Then maybe create a Church Audio website (www.churchaudio.com or some such) as an "organization front".  Include info about you, your company, your mission / goals.  Be sure to include appropriate metadata so others may find your site when searching for their gear.  At first, perhaps just provide product listings - barebones info - that redirects customers to the eBay side of things for detailed info and the actual transactions themselves.  Then eventually build up all the product info listings, details and all, within churchaudio.com proper (as opposed to eBay), but still manage the transactions themselves through eBay since that seems a convenient transaction vehicle.  But by that point, you have a dedicated CA presence, with full control over content, organization, etc., and only relying on eBay for the transaction itself.  Just some thoughts off the top of my head - some might be good ideas, some not so good, so take 'em or leave 'em as you see fit.

Thank you again for taking the time to point these things out.

I truly hope you're taking my comments as they're intended - good-natured and in good-faith.  I'm curious to hear Humbug's A:B comps!

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

Hi there I don't know what happend with your emails some times ebay does not forward them properly. I have learned a few things about the AT mics you have they need to be converted to three wire. I then use a linkwitz mod and the mics work very well after that but the real problem is these mics have a problem with overload the linkwitz mod fixes that and allows them to be used with my preamp or any preamp with out problems.
 

Keep it up, guys - an intelligent, useful discourse!

I have a specific comment about Church Audio, based on my own experience -

1. Communication with customers needs improvement - when I bought my preamp from him it took several followup messages to get shipping data. As noted, Chris also has a tendency towards short, declaritive statements which don't specifically address the issue. This thread has already shown improvement in this regard.

2. My specific experience with his preamp - the preamp has two firm settings - +27db/-27db. There is no variable option to attenuate the +27db down a bit, which is an issue with my mics (AT853) which run fairly hot. Admittedly, that may be a lot to expect from a $45 product (looks like the price has gone up recently - that's what I paid a few months back). Competing preamps that allow for variable attenuation are considerably more expensive.

I ended up with an AD-20, since the range of +17 > +45 is variable, and should the +17 still be too much, I have level controls on my battery box to act as an attenuator. As he stated, you can't run the battery box in series with his preamp.

I have no reason to disbelieve his claims about the quality of his product - it just didn't work out well for me personally.

[zowie]

I'd just like to chime in to say that I had an email dialogue with Mr. Church about his products a while back and he was very responsive.   (I ultimately didn't buy, but that was because it turned out not to have the features I wanted, not because of a quality issue. If it was what I was looking for, I'd have bought it.)

Mr. Church, ever think about getting someone else involved with your business?  It sounds like you may have tremendous expertise in some areas while being a bit in the dark about others (as is true of many people, and almost everyone when they are starting out).  If your product is as good as you say, it'd be a shame if it didn't get into people's hands because of optics, especially when others have proven that one can be very successful selling all kinds of crap with the right marketing.  Even a few bucks spent on a local college student to edit copy could go a long way.

Edit: Um, the reporter mic sound sample on your website seems to go dead around the 16 sec mark.

[poorlyconditioned]

Hi there I don't know what happend with your emails some times ebay does not forward them properly. I have learned a few things about the AT mics you have they need to be converted to three wire. I then use a linkwitz mod and the mics work very well after that but the real problem is these mics have a problem with overload the linkwitz mod fixes that and allows them to be used with my preamp or any preamp with out problems.
 

Keep it up, guys - an intelligent, useful discourse!

I have a specific comment about Church Audio, based on my own experience -

1. Communication with customers needs improvement - when I bought my preamp from him it took several followup messages to get shipping data. As noted, Chris also has a tendency towards short, declaritive statements which don't specifically address the issue. This thread has already shown improvement in this regard.

2. My specific experience with his preamp - the preamp has two firm settings - +27db/-27db. There is no variable option to attenuate the +27db down a bit, which is an issue with my mics (AT853) which run fairly hot. Admittedly, that may be a lot to expect from a $45 product (looks like the price has gone up recently - that's what I paid a few months back). Competing preamps that allow for variable attenuation are considerably more expensive.

I ended up with an AD-20, since the range of +17 > +45 is variable, and should the +17 still be too much, I have level controls on my battery box to act as an attenuator. As he stated, you can't run the battery box in series with his preamp.

I have no reason to disbelieve his claims about the quality of his product - it just didn't work out well for me personally.

Hey, I also had some good dialog with you (Church) as well.

By the way, I've also been recommending that everyone run their mics, including AT853s, in "source follower" mode. That is, either 3 wires, or 2 wires, with the Linkwitz mod.  I've got photos/drawings on my website: www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853.

  Richard

[zowie]

+t for interesting beards.

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

I have been using a connector made by a company called Mode Electronics its a 6 pin gold connector anyone that needs the specs or product# let me know its much better then then small ta3 connector it locks this is what I use on my cardiod mic system using the linkwitz 3 wire mod.

Hi there I don't know what happend with your emails some times ebay does not forward them properly. I have learned a few things about the AT mics you have they need to be converted to three wire. I then use a linkwitz mod and the mics work very well after that but the real problem is these mics have a problem with overload the linkwitz mod fixes that and allows them to be used with my preamp or any preamp with out problems.
 

Keep it up, guys - an intelligent, useful discourse!

I have a specific comment about Church Audio, based on my own experience -

1. Communication with customers needs improvement - when I bought my preamp from him it took several followup messages to get shipping data. As noted, Chris also has a tendency towards short, declaritive statements which don't specifically address the issue. This thread has already shown improvement in this regard.

2. My specific experience with his preamp - the preamp has two firm settings - +27db/-27db. There is no variable option to attenuate the +27db down a bit, which is an issue with my mics (AT853) which run fairly hot. Admittedly, that may be a lot to expect from a $45 product (looks like the price has gone up recently - that's what I paid a few months back). Competing preamps that allow for variable attenuation are considerably more expensive.

I ended up with an AD-20, since the range of +17 > +45 is variable, and should the +17 still be too much, I have level controls on my battery box to act as an attenuator. As he stated, you can't run the battery box in series with his preamp.

I have no reason to disbelieve his claims about the quality of his product - it just didn't work out well for me personally.

Hey, I also had some good dialog with you (Church) as well.

By the way, I've also been recommending that everyone run their mics, including AT853s, in "source follower" mode. That is, either 3 wires, or 2 wires, with the Linkwitz mod.  I've got photos/drawings on my website: www.cs.uwaterloo.ca/~mannr/AT853.

  Richard

[rdflash]

Have the results been posted of the testing of CHURCH-AUDIO's products...just curious.

Also, what is the best CHURCH-AUDIO product you make Mr. Church?  In other words, which one of your mics is the best?  and which one of your pre-amp/batt. boxes is the best?  and can you buy both of them in a package deal??

lemme kno.  thanks!

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

Hi the best package we make is our cardioid microphone system it includes a preamp. Some people have wondered why we are including a preamp, it's simply because we do a linkwitz mod and convert the capsules to 3 wire. This increases the SPL we use a dupont calibrator that puts out 1k at 114db. At this level our system puts out less then 0.06% distortion. Based on these figures we have figured our max SPL to be around 123db of real SPL at 1%. Now as most of you are aware I am not just a mic builder I am a sound engineer. I mix concerts for bands this give me a real perspective on real world concert levels. They rarely go about 114db to 116db and never go to 120 db unless the sound engineer mixing the conert is an idiot. So we feel that these mics have a very good REAL distortion spec. Now that is only half of the story we do not use an off the shelf capsule. We take the capsule and modify it. We do things like retension the diaphram, change the back chamber size, portsize, and add an acoustic damping material. What does all this mean a better sounding microphone that picks up a concert the way it happend. freq response is a real 15hz to 19k. We feel there is alot of people making mics that simply take a soldering iron to a capsule and add wires. We go way beyond that we feel anybody can solder some wires to a capsule, Not just anyone can come up with real modifications that make a microphone actually sound better then it did before the mods. So how did I come up with these mods I used my EARS and my computer programs but in the end it was my EARS that told me the truth that some of the mods did not change anything some of the mods did I kept the ones that did and forgot about the ones that did not. This is why I feel this microphone system sounds great. Here is a sample recording tell me what you think.

Chris Church

Have the results been posted of the testing of CHURCH-AUDIO's products...just curious.

Also, what is the best CHURCH-AUDIO product you make Mr. Church?  In other words, which one of your mics is the best?  and which one of your pre-amp/batt. boxes is the best?  and can you buy both of them in a package deal??

lemme kno.  thanks!

[RebelRebel]

wow, that was a quick sample. 

Hi the best package we make is our cardioid microphone system it includes a preamp. Some people have wondered why we are including a preamp, it's simply because we do a linkwitz mod and convert the capsules to 3 wire. This increases the SPL we use a dupont calibrator that puts out 1k at 114db. At this level our system puts out less then 0.06% distortion. Based on these figures we have figured our max SPL to be around 123db of real SPL at 1%. Now as most of you are aware I am not just a mic builder I am a sound engineer. I mix concerts for bands this give me a real perspective on real world concert levels. They rarely go about 114db to 116db and never go to 120 db unless the sound engineer mixing the conert is an idiot. So we feel that these mics have a very good REAL distortion spec. Now that is only half of the story we do not use an off the shelf capsule. We take the capsule and modify it. We do things like retension the diaphram, change the back chamber size, portsize, and add an acoustic damping material. What does all this mean a better sounding microphone that picks up a concert the way it happend. freq response is a real 15hz to 19k. We feel there is alot of people making mics that simply take a soldering iron to a capsule and add wires. We go way beyond that we feel anybody can solder some wires to a capsule, Not just anyone can come up with real modifications that make a microphone actually sound better then it did before the mods. So how did I come up with these mods I used my EARS and my computer programs but in the end it was my EARS that told me the truth that some of the mods did not change anything some of the mods did I kept the ones that did and forgot about the ones that did not. This is why I feel this microphone system sounds great. Here is a sample recording tell me what you think.

Chris Church

Have the results been posted of the testing of CHURCH-AUDIO's products...just curious.

Also, what is the best CHURCH-AUDIO product you make Mr. Church?  In other words, which one of your mics is the best?  and which one of your pre-amp/batt. boxes is the best?  and can you buy both of them in a package deal??

lemme kno.  thanks!