Topic: Hiss from V3>671**Resolved**

[vince]

Just made my first recording on my new rig of Zilla. The audio from the band is great but there is a distinctive hiss on the recording. I had settings at: 24/44, gain around 35db, I did not have HPF turned on on the V3 or the Microphones, coming S/DIF out with Monster digital cable to Digital-in on 671. I am just playing it back through my computer and headphones
Any guidance or suggestions?

Thanks

Vince

[BC]

can you playback straight from the 671 to see if the hiss is there?

[sygdwm]

bad cable?

[ethan]

Just made my first recording on my new rig of Zilla. The audio from the band is great but there is a distinctive hiss on the recording. I had settings at: 24/44, gain around 35db, I did not have HPF turned on on the V3 or the Microphones, coming S/DIF out with Monster digital cable to Digital-in on 671. I am just playing it back through my computer and headphones
Any guidance or suggestions?

Thanks

Vince

You listening to the 24 bit playback or a dithered playback?

-e

[Kyle]

can you playback straight from the 671 to see if the hiss is there?

Check that - the hiss may be the internal noise from your pc.....

[vince]

can you playback straight from the 671 to see if the hiss is there?

Check that - the hiss may be the internal noise from your pc.....

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I just recorded another artist last night and have the same problem. I am using adobe Audition. I tracked in cdwave and then burned to cd in audition and cd has all the noise on it. I downloaded the trial version os sound forge 8 and had the same issues....bummin here.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

[BC]

can you playback straight from the 671 to see if the hiss is there?

Check that - the hiss may be the internal noise from your pc.....

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I just recorded another artist last night and have the same problem. I am using adobe Audition. I tracked in cdwave and then burned to cd in audition and cd has all the noise on it. I downloaded the trial version os sound forge 8 and had the same issues....bummin here.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

Do you hear the noise when you are tracking in CDWAV?

[vince]

can you playback straight from the 671 to see if the hiss is there?

Check that - the hiss may be the internal noise from your pc.....

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I just recorded another artist last night and have the same problem. I am using adobe Audition. I tracked in cdwave and then burned to cd in audition and cd has all the noise on it. I downloaded the trial version os sound forge 8 and had the same issues....bummin here.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

Do you hear the noise when you are tracking in CDWAV?

Yes it is there in CDWave

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

can you playback straight from the 671 to see if the hiss is there?

Check that - the hiss may be the internal noise from your pc.....

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I just recorded another artist last night and have the same problem. I am using adobe Audition. I tracked in cdwave and then burned to cd in audition and cd has all the noise on it. I downloaded the trial version os sound forge 8 and had the same issues....bummin here.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

Do you hear the noise when you are tracking in CDWAV?

Yes it is there in CDWave

Vince, have you had the 671 updated for the new .wav spec yet?  I don't know if you remember it from when we talked, but you need to get the update from marantz in order to be able to transfer 24bit files dirrectly from the card or through USB.  It has to do with where the extra 8bits of information is, marantz listened to microsoft engineers and went with a new spec that hasn't panned out.  If you transfer the data through the coax out the 8 bits of information are shifted into the correct order and you won't have the static issues.  Doug suggested trying to record in .bwf (broadcast wav) format, but it doesn't fix the problem, you need that update or you're stuck doing real-time transfers for 24 bit recordings.

If you've already had the update done try playing the files in winamp.

Also, if you're buring the files to cd, you must convert them to 16 bit. 

If you're still having problems I don't mind giving you a tech support call, just shoot over your # through a PM.

[Craig T]

how are you doing the 24>16bit conversion?

[vince]

can you playback straight from the 671 to see if the hiss is there?

Check that - the hiss may be the internal noise from your pc.....

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I just recorded another artist last night and have the same problem. I am using adobe Audition. I tracked in cdwave and then burned to cd in audition and cd has all the noise on it. I downloaded the trial version os sound forge 8 and had the same issues....bummin here.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

Do you hear the noise when you are tracking in CDWAV?

Yes it is there in CDWave

Vince, have you had the 671 updated for the new .wav spec yet?  I don't know if you remember it from when we talked, but you need to get the update from marantz in order to be able to transfer 24bit files dirrectly from the card or through USB.  It has to do with where the extra 8bits of information is, marantz listened to microsoft engineers and went with a new spec that hasn't panned out.  If you transfer the data through the coax out the 8 bits of information are shifted into the correct order and you won't have the static issues.  Doug suggested trying to record in .bwf (broadcast wav) format, but it doesn't fix the problem, you need that update or you're stuck doing real-time transfers for 24 bit recordings.

If you've already had the update done try playing the files in winamp.

Also, if you're buring the files to cd, you must convert them to 16 bit. 

If you're still having problems I don't mind giving you a tech support call, just shoot over your # through a PM.

I did remember the need for an update but had not researched it to see what the symptoms are/were. I will get it out to Marantz and that should fix the issues. I reeeaaally dig the 671 and am getting used to setting it up now.  I remember looking on d-mpro.com for some reference to the update but couldnt find it. Do you have any links to it?

[vince]

how are you doing the 24>16bit conversion?

When you burn a CD project in Adobe Audition, it automagically converts it to 16/44.1. I am thinking that Ghengis is right about the update for the file format being the problem.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Vince

[sygdwm]

fwiw, im not sure mine has been updated, but i have NOT had this problem transferring 24 bits files via usb.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

fwiw, im not sure mine has been updated, but i have NOT had this problem transferring 24 bits files via usb.

When did you buy your unit? I bought mine from Doug on June 2nd, perhaps yours was one that came in later.  I think the new file format is .wavE or something like that?

[zowie]

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

I am just playing it back through my computer and headphones

The hiss you are hearing is generated by the laptops' crappy integrated audio during playback.

[RDunn]

To check if your machine has been updated...... go into the record menu and select PCM 24 bit..... when you get to the option of setting the bit rate..... you should see 16, 24 & e24 as options.  If you see all three then the machine should be updated for the correct wav format.  If it only shows 16 & e24, you need to send it back for the update.

Hope that helps.....

[vince]

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

I am just playing it back through my computer and headphones

The hiss you are hearing is generated by the laptops' crappy integrated audio during playback.

Ok, so what is the alternative? Setting up a desktop with a decent sound card? I am not trying to be stupid here, its just that I figured I could do all of this on a laptop. I work on computers for a living but have just gotten used to a laptop and dont even have a desktop setup in the house anymore.

Thanks for all the feedback folks!

[ethan]

I don't think having your computer do D/A is ever really great. I have a AP2496 sound card and always output S/PDIF into my stereo.

-e

[kindms]

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

I am just playing it back through my computer and headphones

The hiss you are hearing is generated by the laptops' crappy integrated audio during playback.

Ok, so what is the alternative? Setting up a desktop with a decent sound card? I am not trying to be stupid here, its just that I figured I could do all of this on a laptop. I work on computers for a living but have just gotten used to a laptop and dont even have a desktop setup in the house anymore.

Thanks for all the feedback folks!

there are several options open to you. You could get yourself a squeezebox 2 or 3 and simpy use that to get the HQ audio to your playback system or go the route of a 3rd party soundcard for your lappy, ie. VX Pocket (overkill for just playback) theres the indigo there are several laptop soundcards that would be suitable for just playback

[bconnolly]

there are several options open to you. You could get yourself a squeezebox 2 or 3 and simpy use that to get the HQ audio to your playback system or go the route of a 3rd party soundcard for your lappy, ie. VX Pocket (overkill for just playback) theres the indigo there are several laptop soundcards that would be suitable for just playback

Creative has a PCMCIA solution for their Audigy 2 ZS line which has optical in and out.

http://reviews.designtechnica.com/firstlook62.html

[zowie]

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

I am just playing it back through my computer and headphones

The hiss you are hearing is generated by the laptops' crappy integrated audio during playback.

Ok, so what is the alternative? Setting up a desktop with a decent sound card? I am not trying to be stupid here, its just that I figured I could do all of this on a laptop. I work on computers for a living but have just gotten used to a laptop and dont even have a desktop setup in the house anymore.

Thanks for all the feedback folks!

There's a wide range of USB and firewire (and a couple PCMCIA) audio interfaces such as those from M-Audio and Edirol that would serve you very well.  Check their websites, Musicians Friend, etc. for leads.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

when I play back on the 671 it sounds great. when I play from the CF card or trasfer to the Dell D600 laptop it has a lot of noise.
I tried all the same on a different laptop a brand new Dell D610 and it was the same.

I am just playing it back through my computer and headphones

The hiss you are hearing is generated by the laptops' crappy integrated audio during playback.

Highly doubt it...

[JasonSobel]

Vince, have you had the 671 updated for the new .wav spec yet?  I don't know if you remember it from when we talked, but you need to get the update from marantz in order to be able to transfer 24bit files dirrectly from the card or through USB.  It has to do with where the extra 8bits of information is, marantz listened to microsoft engineers and went with a new spec that hasn't panned out.  If you transfer the data through the coax out the 8 bits of information are shifted into the correct order and you won't have the static issues.  Doug suggested trying to record in .bwf (broadcast wav) format, but it doesn't fix the problem, you need that update or you're stuck doing real-time transfers for 24 bit recordings.

This is not exactly correct, and I'd Just to clear up any confusion about about the update.
Without the update, the 24 bit recordings are per Microsoft's spec, not the usual 24 bit format.  However, you can still transfer these files to your computer via USB or a card reader or whatever, it's just a digital file.  the problem is that most programs cannot read it.  CD Wave, however, can read both formats (the standard and the Microsoft).  So, before the update was available, a work-around would have been to open the files up in CD Wave, and then re-save with the "alternate 24-bit format" option checked off.  Of course, this whole issue is moot, because Marantz has updated the unit to record directly to the accepted 24 bit standard format.

I just wanted to add this to the thread, because of the fact that CD Wave can read both formats.  If you are opening the file in CD Wave, and you are hearing the noise, the problem is definitely NOT the file format issue, and something else.  Sorry I can't help pinpoint exactly what the problem is, but I think we can definitely rule this out as a culprit.

[F.O.Bean]

Vince, have you had the 671 updated for the new .wav spec yet?  I don't know if you remember it from when we talked, but you need to get the update from marantz in order to be able to transfer 24bit files dirrectly from the card or through USB.  It has to do with where the extra 8bits of information is, marantz listened to microsoft engineers and went with a new spec that hasn't panned out.  If you transfer the data through the coax out the 8 bits of information are shifted into the correct order and you won't have the static issues.  Doug suggested trying to record in .bwf (broadcast wav) format, but it doesn't fix the problem, you need that update or you're stuck doing real-time transfers for 24 bit recordings.

This is not exactly correct, and I'd Just to clear up any confusion about about the update.
Without the update, the 24 bit recordings are per Microsoft's spec, not the usual 24 bit format.  However, you can still transfer these files to your computer via USB or a card reader or whatever, it's just a digital file.  the problem is that most programs cannot read it.  CD Wave, however, can read both formats (the standard and the Microsoft).  So, before the update was available, a work-around would have been to open the files up in CD Wave, and then re-save with the "alternate 24-bit format" option checked off.  Of course, this whole issue is moot, because Marantz has updated the unit to record directly to the accepted 24 bit standard format.

I just wanted to add this to the thread, because of the fact that CD Wave can read both formats.  If you are opening the file in CD Wave, and you are hearing the noise, the problem is definitely NOT the file format issue, and something else.  Sorry I can't help pinpoint exactly what the problem is, but I think we can definitely rule this out as a culprit.

I'd love to know if he has tried saving as the alternate format, cause i was gonna purchase one of these

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

CD Wave, however, can read both formats (the standard and the Microsoft).  So, before the update was available, a work-around would have been to open the files up in CD Wave, and then re-save with the "alternate 24-bit format" option checked off.  Of course, this whole issue is moot, because Marantz has updated the unit to record directly to the accepted 24 bit standard format.

I just wanted to add this to the thread, because of the fact that CD Wave can read both formats.  If you are opening the file in CD Wave, and you are hearing the noise, the problem is definitely NOT the file format issue, and something else.  Sorry I can't help pinpoint exactly what the problem is, but I think we can definitely rule this out as a culprit.

The CD Wave thing didn't work for me, reguardless the hiss was still there.  It may have been the version, but with version 1.9.3.43 it didn't work, I still needed to do a real time transfer.  I sent the USB transferred files to Doug on dvd-r, we couldn't come up with a solution, the CD Wave one included...  Someone said it worked in the Oade forum, but I never had such luck.

Do you have a 671?

recording:
Microtech Gefell m200 -> Grace Design Lunatec V3 -> Sony TCD-D8
Microtech Gefell m200 -> Grace Design Lunatec V3 -> M-Audio Microtrack

[JasonSobel]

The CD Wave thing didn't work for me, reguardless the hiss was still there.  It may have been the version, but with version 1.9.3.43 it didn't work, I still needed to do a real time transfer.  I sent the USB transferred files to Doug on dvd-r, we couldn't come up with a solution, the CD Wave one included...  Someone said it worked in the Oade forum, but I never had such luck.

Do you have a 671?

recording:
Microtech Gefell m200 -> Grace Design Lunatec V3 -> Sony TCD-D8
Microtech Gefell m200 -> Grace Design Lunatec V3 -> M-Audio Microtrack

interesting.  I was under the impression that CD Wave would take care of the file format issue (seperate from any hiss issue).

And no, I do not own a 671, although I have used one before and have recorded a couple of shows with one.  My experience is somewhat limited, I know, but I do have some experience with the unit.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

interesting.  I was under the impression that CD Wave would take care of the file format issue (seperate from any hiss issue).

I was too, until I tried it.  It is possible that another version of CD Wave might work, as far as I know I tried the most recent version when that was mentioned in the forum.

And no, I do not own a 671, although I have used one before and have recorded a couple of shows with one.  My experience is somewhat limited, I know, but I do have some experience with the unit.

I thought you might have sold one, perhaps tried the CD Wave thing with success, if so I was wondering which version you might have used... 

I think I might get back into one come tax season...  I'd like to see if Doug tackles a mod with the new Tascam first, hopefully that's not too far off. (want that time code feature).

What totally baffles me is it was a microsoft spec, BUT not even Windows Media Player with updates would recognize the files with the newest updates. weak!

[JasonSobel]

I thought you might have sold one, perhaps tried the CD Wave thing with success, if so I was wondering which version you might have used...

no, I never owned or sold one.  a little while back, I saw that someone local to me was selling a stock unit on ebay.  (the person selling it is not on this forum)  I got in touch, because I was interested, and the guy actually let me use it a few times.  very nice of him.  (ultimately, I decided not to buy it, because I knew the MicroTrack would be significantly less money, and all I really need is a stable device to record S/PDIF, and the MicroTrack is almost there  )  The CD Wave "trick" worked for me, although I can't tell you which version.  I'm not very good at keeping track of those things, and shortly before thanksgiving, I had to re-install windows and I just downloaded the most recent version then.  Sorry I can't provide any more insight. 

What totally baffles me is it was a microsoft spec, BUT not even Windows Media Player with updates would recognize the files with the newest updates. weak!

very strange indeed, although, I must say, not terribly surprising.  Windows Media Player is definitely geared towards the average consumer, and 24 bit audio is certainly not something the average joe knows anything about.  on the other hand, it makes you wonder, why would Microsoft create a new "standard" for 24 bit PCM data, and not implement it in their own programs.   

[vince]

Vince, have you had the 671 updated for the new .wav spec yet?  I don't know if you remember it from when we talked, but you need to get the update from marantz in order to be able to transfer 24bit files dirrectly from the card or through USB.  It has to do with where the extra 8bits of information is, marantz listened to microsoft engineers and went with a new spec that hasn't panned out.  If you transfer the data through the coax out the 8 bits of information are shifted into the correct order and you won't have the static issues.  Doug suggested trying to record in .bwf (broadcast wav) format, but it doesn't fix the problem, you need that update or you're stuck doing real-time transfers for 24 bit recordings.

This is not exactly correct, and I'd Just to clear up any confusion about about the update.
Without the update, the 24 bit recordings are per Microsoft's spec, not the usual 24 bit format.  However, you can still transfer these files to your computer via USB or a card reader or whatever, it's just a digital file.  the problem is that most programs cannot read it.  CD Wave, however, can read both formats (the standard and the Microsoft).  So, before the update was available, a work-around would have been to open the files up in CD Wave, and then re-save with the "alternate 24-bit format" option checked off.  Of course, this whole issue is moot, because Marantz has updated the unit to record directly to the accepted 24 bit standard format.

I just wanted to add this to the thread, because of the fact that CD Wave can read both formats.  If you are opening the file in CD Wave, and you are hearing the noise, the problem is definitely NOT the file format issue, and something else.  Sorry I can't help pinpoint exactly what the problem is, but I think we can definitely rule this out as a culprit.

I'd love to know if he has tried saving as the alternate format, cause i was gonna purchase one of these

Tried this with no change using CD WAVE Version 1.94.6 Windows build numer 0000.0A28.  I am going to try it on a box with an an Audigy setup that I use for digital video editing at work and see if the sound is different. I am leaning toward the "crappy sound of the laptop" as the culprit...hope so anyway. I went and bought the "The Complete Guide to High-End Audio" tonight and am thinking about putting a "starter" system together...you know, like with training wheels and shit.  I have the Bose 321 system we bought for a 36" TV a few years ago but I would really like to get a nice 2 channel component system to piss my money away on... I will be sure to report my findings tomorrow.

You guys kick ass! it is very cool to have the input of so many folks out there

+T's when I hit 50

[sygdwm]

fwiw, im not sure mine has been updated, but i have NOT had this problem transferring 24 bits files via usb.

When did you buy your unit? I bought mine from Doug on June 2nd, perhaps yours was one that came in later.  I think the new file format is .wavE or something like that?

last month.

edit: mine is apparently NOT updated cause i dont have the e24 or whatever. again, i have had zero problems transferring 24bit files via usb1.1 in xp.

[vince]

Update: I took the CF card that still has the show on it(Kingston 45X 4GB)to work and played it from the card through a Creative Audigy 2 zs and the hiss was there....also transfered to the HD and it was the same(not sure that would have made a difference).
I listened to it through Sony 7506 headphones, I guess it would not be as prominent through shitty HPs.

I am going to go back over the set up of the 671...all the cables are brand new (I know, I know). I am going to record the same band tomorrow(Mary Ann Redmond Band), along with the Nighthawks at the State Theater, maybe I will try another card.

Vince

....bummed

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Update: I took the CF card that still has the show on it(Kingston 45X 4GB)to work and played it from the card through a Creative Audigy 2 zs and the hiss was there....also transfered to the HD and it was the same(not sure that would have made a difference).
I listened to it through Sony 7506 headphones, I guess it would not be as prominent through shitty HPs.

I am going to go back over the set up of the 671...all the cables are brand new (I know, I know). I am going to record the same band tomorrow(Mary Ann Redmond Band), along with the Nighthawks at the State Theater, maybe I will try another card.

Vince

....bummed

Another CF card or Soundcard?  Make sure if you're doing a transfer to your soundcard that you have the propper input settings, if you were inoutting 24 bit but the input setting was at 16, you'd have the hiss problem.  I'm not familiar w/ the Creative cards, but I know I have to manually change my cards settings.  I use Soundforge to capture my audio, it also has to be told which bit rate.  Just to be safe you might want to record in 16 bit until you get the 24 bit resolved, it's most likely a simple fix, and USB transfers will be hella fast (much less memory space as well). 

Sent you a PM too...

[vince]

real time transfer through digital cable solves the issue until I get the update from Marantz.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

real time transfer through digital cable solves the issue until I get the update from Marantz.

 

 

Who's your daddy...

Did they drop that fax in your mailbox?

[sygdwm]

real time transfer through digital cable solves the issue until I get the update from Marantz.

guess i got lucky? 

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

real time transfer through digital cable solves the issue until I get the update from Marantz.

guess i got lucky? 

Maybe, maybe not.  I think Vince recorded w/.wav not .bwf, were you using .bwf?

.bwf might work, as far as I know they didn't mess around with that standard format, by the time I was going to try it, I had nothing to record, never did a test.

[sygdwm]

nope. record to wav. :shrugs:

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

nope. record to wav. :shrugs:

Perhaps the newer units shipped with the old standard, not the ass-backwards microsoft one.

I saw a post from someone that had the update done, they had an additional .wav extension available, I'm not sure how it varried.  It sounds like they just added the standard file format and didn't remove the other.  On the newer units they may have scrapped that microsoft format all-together. 

::shrugs::