Topic: sbd dat feed -> camcorder mic input

[taperroy]

hi ....

 doing a sbd feed into my tascam dap1 for a show on saturday evening.
 and im also planning on running a video camera on a tripod  as well. id love to have the sbd audio on the video, and could do this by running a line from the   headphone output jack into the mic input on the camera. however, i know that this signal at full strength would most likely overpower the mic preamp on the camera.
 my question is.... has anyone ever run this kind of setup before with success? and if so..... using the  headphone level for attenuation to cut the signal of the feed to the mic input......  at what level should i set  the headphone  adjustment ?? would love  a crispy sounding video, without completely wrecking it, by overdriving the  mic input.

 i anxiously await  a response from someone thats more experienced than i!!!

taper-roy
union grove, wi

[fozzy]

Some cameras have mic/line switches for the input, some also have auto or manual gain for the input.  What camera you running and does it display any info about the audio in the view finder

[Gebs]

Take a DAT recorder....plug it into the SB...connect mic in on the DAT (manual mode) check and adjust output control (atten) from SB......sorted. If you dont you will for sure clip the thing to bits.

Many DV recorders have no line in and no way of monitoring/adjusting levels...so thats what I do

[Colin Liston]

I've done this before.  Ran SBD>D8>headphone jack out> Camera mic input.

I just turned down the volume on the headphone to about 3 or 4, and it came out fine.

You will most likely have to hot of a signal any other way, unless you camera has a line in.

PM me if you have any questions.  I'd be happy to help

[ethan]

I think a high to low Z line transformer would be useful for this if you don't have a line-in switch. What is the input impedance your the mic input on your camera?

[Will_S]

Just play back an already recorded DAT in your DA-P1, connect the headhone out to the mic in on your camcorder, and figure out what headphone volume gives you the right levels.  Then as long as your recording levels on the DA-P1 are the same at the show, you'll get the right levels on the camcorder without having to figure stuff out at the show.

[guitard]

I don't know the scope of your project, and this doesn't answer your question, but I'd like to throw this in there just the same.

If you are already getting a DAT recording from the soundboard - you've got the soundboard audio covered - and having the same audio on the videotape isn't going to add much value to your project.  What I would do is get another mic, plug it into my camera, and record a second audio source that way.  Of course, it won't sound nearly as good as the soundboard audio.  However, combining it with the soundboard audio can really produce a nice result.  The soundboard audio won't have any ambience or crowd noise - both of which are important elements of a good sounding "live concert" recording.  You can adjust the volume of either audio source in your NLE when you're editing the show for DVD authoring.  I usually reduce the audience recording audio several decibels so that I still get the ambience and crowd noise - but it's buried in the background and the soundboard audio is what really stands out front.

[taperroy]

okay all....

 thanks for the free sharing of ideas. i was just kinda wondering , as i dont have time to set up and do any testing, the show is tonight that im going to record.
  ill report back my results.....

[bigwurock]

yes let us know what happens...i am going to try and do the same thing in april...be so much easier hooking up with the sbd instead of spending the time to synch up the sbd....

[thepassionofyonder]

i agree with the sync it up afterwords theory, just think if your p1 dies, you wont have any audio at all.
i can say this cause it has happened to me.
and then i had no audio at all, that worse than crappy camcorder audio.
~justin

[bigwurock]

well what i plan on doing is...bringing my home DAT recorder...then running a line out from the dat deck to my camcorder...but if i run a line out of the dat deck into mic input on my camcorder..will my levels be too high..??..thus i will still get a dat sbd copy from my dat deck...this will give me full audio when i still have to change tapes in the camcorder...but i am still wondering about the high levels on the camcorder...

[sullen]

Some of the JVC dv cams have a level meter on the screen when running mic-in into them, even indicates clipping, really helpful for the headphone-out > mic-in method..

[ethan]

I still believe you have to impedance match to send a line-out signal into a mic in signal. The symptoms of an inpedance mis match would be a very muddy low end.

-e

[eman]

Beachtek makes some boxes to take care of the impedance mismatch. The DXA-2 has line in and mic in and has a mini out for your mic in on the camera. They also have one with phantom power to plug your nice expensive mics in but I think if you already have a nice preamp then this is unnecessary. The box also has mounting to stick it between the camera and the tripod. I am thinking of getting one of these- anybody have any experience with these?

[fsulloway]

What kind of vid cam is it Roy? I've run line out of the 722 into the A/V inputs on my Sony Dvr pc100 and was very pleased with the results.

[taperroy]

it was a cheapie sony cam.....
  guess i should have posted a follow-up....

 i plugged sbd +4 xlrs into my dap1, and then a line from my headphone output into the mic input on the video camera. ran the volume at about 3.5 and it came out really nice.

 i also run a sony ccd-vx3 video camera at times, and when im doing this, i usually have full permissions, and run a svhs line out of the camera, into a home svhs deck, and then  rca line out of my dat deck into the rca audio in on the home deck. ive done lots of archive work for the milwaukee irish fest this way, and seems to have worked well for the last 3 years for me. the svhs home deck, also has adjustable audio recording levels.

 im thinking now of upgrading into a nicer video camera, with the lowerinf prices on dv cams, but its essential that i be able to run a sbd feed into it  ...(even if i need a dat deck in the line to calm the  +4 signal down)

[eman]

I found this site on a search:
http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/Electronics/circuits/line_to_mic.html

Line level signal to microphone input adapter
Sometimes there is need to convert line level signals to such signal that it can be connected to microphone input. Because the line level signals are typically in range of 0.5..2V and the microphone signals are in millivolt range, quite much attenuation is needed to match the signal levels. This means that typically you will need 40-50 dB of attenuation.


40 dB PAD
Consumer audio line (-10dBu) level to microphone matching can be done using a "40 dB L-pad attenuator". This circuit is indeed quite simple:

+Line level input -----R1----+-- +Mic level output
                             |
                  +----R2----+
                  |
Ground (input)----+--------------- Ground (output)

R1 = 10 kohm
R2 = 100 ohm


Circuit technical data:
Attenuation: 40 dB
Input impedance: 10 kohm
Output impedance: 100 ohm
Input signal: Unbalanced line level input
Output: Unbalanced microphone output

I would think this would take care of the need for using the headphone out or a Beachtek type of device. Maybe Todd will make something for us to buy. Something cool would be an SVU-1 or 2 mod that passed through a mic-in level signal on the other side.

[ethan]

I think just plain old High Z -> Low Z line transformers would do the trick.

http://www.bswusa.com/proditem.asp?item=MIT129

[eman]

I'm thinking this is probably the same thing in a nice package. I found a cheap SVU and I will either run a mini out with the resistor package or buy the line transformer and a splitter. The SVU conveniently mounts under the camera and it will be nice to have levels up there.
Thanks for the link.