Topic: wanna help me plan my upgrades?

[daco63]

If you go with powered speakers, combine your speaker and amp budget.  There are advantages to self powered speakers.  A normal amplifier has design tradeoffs to get a good linear response across the intended range.  The higher end self powered speakers use multiple amplifiers behind a crossover so they are internally an active bi-amp configuration with each amp specifically matched to the driver.  You can get some insane active speakers, like the Agantgarde Solo but I'm guessing you're budget is closer to mine.  I like having a seperate amp because I can try different amps or different speakers.  Also there are fewer options for high end self powered speakers and eventually I want to go multi channel.

So now that your head is spinning let me throw out something else to think about - multi channel.  There are a of really excellent 5.1 field recordings coming out now.  There are more people running 4 channels - just look at some of the recent threads about MS multi channel and mixing 2ch with sbd.  There are some really beautiful aud+sbd mixes of dead shows circulating as 5.1 mixes (props to dan). 

When I initially suggesting an integrated I was thinking of something like the sony str da-3000 that can be a really good option for 2-ch with a path towards 5.1.  When you find a line of speakers that you like, you can start with the monitors and have a very nice 2-ch system then add a matching sub to fill out the lower range.  Eventually, just add the matching towers and you have 4.1 using two of the remaining three power channels to bi-amp the main speakers.     

Well I'm a long way from thinking 5.1, but we'll see if that seed germinates or not... 

The powered monitor concept makes a ton of sense to me.  Optimization, just as you say.  I've had my eyes on the Mackie HR824's as a next step for a while now.  I auditioned those a couple years back, and I thought they sounded great.

I don't know if you can answer this, but is there really a big difference between audiophile and studio gear?  Is the studio stuff somehow more geared toward accuracy and perhaps less musical?  I'm more familiar with studio gear these days, and I've always wondered why the audiophile folks aren't into it.

In any case, I'm not making any purchases right now so I can go ahead and change my mind several times over the next few months. Hopefully my head will have stopped spinning by then.

[daco63]

That avantgarde stuff is something else, BTW.  The Trio Classico blows my mind!

[Nick's Picks]

mostly..
the studio gear is built for smaller rooms.  lots of monitors in that realm.  I seldom see full range tower setups in any mixing rooms pics i've come across.

for example, what "studio gear" would you put in a huge living room w/vaulted ceilings ?

[daco63]

mostly..
the studio gear is built for smaller rooms.  lots of monitors in that realm.  I seldom see full range tower setups in any mixing rooms pics i've come across.

for example, what "studio gear" would you put in a huge living room w/vaulted ceilings ?

Hi Nick,

Makes sense to me.   But that brings up a good point for my situation -- my audio room is only going to be about 11' x 16 ' with an 8-1/2' cieling (I'll do bass traps and some other conditioning).  Does that change the equation for my "ideal" setup?  Are towers overkill for a room that size?

- Dave

[RebelRebel]

I don't know if you can answer this, but is there really a big difference between audiophile and studio gear?  Is the studio stuff somehow more geared toward accuracy and perhaps less musical? 

"Pro" and "audiophile" are terms that are pretty wide in scope, but I will say that "good"speakers are coveted by studio engineers and audio-enthusiasts alike. I know several engineers with B+W 801s in their rooms, and have seen ATC, Dunlavy(Soveriegns, very expensive) and other "audiophile" brands in studios. Good sounding equipment will get attention from both sides.
When you start talking in general terms, the two markets couldnt be farther apart. "Pro Audio" gear is designed to be utilitarian in nature, to be rugged, reliable,more or less faithful to the source material and portable in some cases(I also notice that the "studio" equipment, in a general sort of way, seems to be built more around accepted scientific principles, rather than on ideas that some would consider a bit crazy). I would venture to say that in studios, generally speaking, the brunt of the budget is spent on the upstream equipment, on the integrity of the audio signal itself(mixing desks, outboard amps/eqs/comps/etc) rather than the monitors. at any rate, a good speaker is a good speaker. I could use any of my hifi speakers in my studio and vice versa..

[daco63]

Thanks for your comments.  Again, makes sense.  And I'm recognizing the difference between nearfield monitors (typical studio use) and full range for filling a room (typical "audiphile" usage)...  Seems obvious, now!  [noob...]

I'm guessing that six months from now I'm going to want to see if I can scoop items like this Dunlavy pair (though AZ is a bit far for pickup...).  Something like that?

[RebelRebel]

Thanks for your comments.  Again, makes sense.  And I'm recognizing the difference between nearfield monitors (typical studio use) and full range for filling a room (typical "audiphile" usage)...  Seems obvious, now!  [noob...]

I'm guessing that six months from now I'm going to want to see if I can scoop items like this Dunlavy pair (though AZ is a bit far for pickup...).  Something like that?

well, there are "monitors" being sold to audio enthusiasts too..they arent just for studios.

[daco63]

So is either type ok for this size room?     

   11' x 16' x 8.5' dedicated audio room with sound isolation
   - often running loud enough to match w/ small-club-sized guitar amps (e.g. 18 watt tube amp running warm)
   - assume good room treatments
   - once in a while with 1-3 extra people/musicians in the room (if that matters)
   - also just for listening:
             - roots, rock, reggae , jam, country, folk, bluegrass, garage, punk... some jazz, and only rarely classical.

[RebelRebel]

So is either type ok for this size room?     

   11' x 16' x 8.5' dedicated audio room with sound isolation
   - often running loud enough to match w/ small-club-sized guitar amps (e.g. 18 watt tube amp running warm)
   - assume good room treatments
   - once in a while with 1-3 extra people/musicians in the room (if that matters)
   - also just for listening:
             - roots, rock, reggae , jam, country, folk, bluegrass, garage, punk... some jazz, and only rarely classical.

It just depends on your preference. One thing to know is that there are no set rules other than your ears are the important thing. Manufacturers will suggest minimum room sizes, but I dont really pay attention to that. I just go with what I like listening to. I had a smallish room last year and had full size VR_4s in there and had no issues, but I think if I had to do it over again, (which I doubt I will ever be in a small room again until I am at rest home), for fear of feeling physically crowded, I would've gone with the Ushers or another pair of monitors. Pay attention to how far the mfr suggests to space them too, and if you are a proponent of the "equilateral triangle" thing, take that into consideration...my current speakers were recommended to be spaced at least 10 ft apart.

[daco63]

Update...

Well I decided I really want to get into some floor standing speakers, and I was planning to buy one of these, based on recommendations here:

 Von Schweikert VR-2
 Soliloquy 5.3i, 6.2i, 6.3i
 Spendor s6e, s8e
 Joseph Audio RM25si
 Paradigm Studio 100 v2s
 ProAc (dunno)...
 
...but I ended up buying a pair of Tyler Taylo 7Us.  They certainly look like a nice speaker, and I think it was a good price and close enough to pick up, so I bought 'em.  (Unheard  , but I read good things... )  I'll be picking them up later this week.

 * * *

I'm going to try making some speaker wire from stripped CAT5 cable.  I've got several hundred feet of left-over Cat5e, and lucky me, it's polyolefin insulated solid core.  I read that FEP (i.e. Teflon, e.g. Belden 1585A) is a better choice, but that polyolefin works ok too. (PVC or stranded wires are not recommended, apparently). 

I found good info here, here and here.  I'm going to build my own variation of a bi-wire setup like this:

   bass: (2x) Litz braids of 4 twisted pairs (16 x 24 awg = ~12 awg)
     (skyskraper: "far left over the two in the middle and then under the right. repeat to infinity.")
   treble: (1x) Litz braid from 4 twisted pairs (8 x 24 awg = ~18 awg)
   ...above 3 braided together (simple braid),
   covered with TechFlex PET2-C,
   TechFlex 3-to-1 heat shrink on the ends to hold the weave in place, and
   terminated with Ratshack #316A blade ends and a bit of Kester 63/37.

From what I read, this should work pretty well.  In any case, it'll keep me busy for a bit...

- Dave

[edit: added some links]

[BC]

 
...but I ended up buying a pair of Tyler Taylo 7Us.  They certainly look like a nice speaker, and I think it was a good price and close enough to pick up, so I bought 'em.  (Unheard  , but I read good things... )  I'll be picking them up later this week.

 * * *


[edit: added some links]

cool, let us know what you think of them! I have been curious about the Tylers, went to go see em at HE this year but they were packing up when I finally made it over to their room.

[daco63]

cool, let us know what you think of them! I have been curious about the Tylers, went to go see em at HE this year but they were packing up when I finally made it over to their room.

I sure will.  I got 'em, but it'll still be a little while before the room is set up...  I'll let you know!