Topic: female minijack to male xlr

[mortendaman]

Hello, i have a quick yes/no question:

I just bought an r1 -> mixpre setup, which i am hoping to use with my sony ecm-959a stereo mic (i am getting other mics, but it would be nice to be able to use it also).

The sony uses a minijack cable and the mixpre of course uses xlr´s.

So my question is wether or not i can just use my soldering iron and make a female minijack to male xlr cable (both parts bought from a standard video/audio dealer) without it getting noise or getting impedance problems?

Best regards

[(((KB)))]

Hello, i have a quick yes/no question:

I just bought an r1 -> mixpre setup, which i am hoping to use with my sony ecm-959a stereo mic (i am getting other mics, but it would be nice to be able to use it also).

The sony uses a minijack cable and the mixpre of course uses xlr´s.

So my question is wether or not i can just use my soldering iron and make a female minijack to male xlr cable (both parts bought from a standard video/audio dealer) without it getting noise or getting impedance problems?

Best regards

I would say yes, but to be on the safe side I'd just buy a coupler and and 1/8" -> L, R XLR cable...only saying this since you might want the mic in factory condition in case you want to eventually sell it.



I suppose you could hack the male 1/8" part of the adapter and replace that w/ a female to do away w/ the coupler if you wanted.


-K

(Edited for a better example)

[mortendaman]

Thanks. But i live in denmark, and would be nice to avoid paying too much for the cable (postage prices!!). So soldering it myself would be ideal.

Hmm i might have misunderstood something, will the fem 1/8-->single xlr solution result in a mono signal?
Do i need an fem1/8-->dual xlr cable to make it stereo?

Best regards from a newbie.

[(((KB)))]

Thanks. But i live in denmark, and would be nice to avoid paying too much for the cable (postage prices!!). So soldering it myself would be ideal.

You could replace the 1/8" connector w/ a L-R XLR's sure. Personally, I still would just buy the adapter cable to avoid altering the mic for resale.

Hmm i might have misunderstood something, will the fem 1/8-->single xlr solution result in a mono signal?
Do i need an fem1/8-->dual xlr cable to make it stereo?

Sorry, yes I updated my previous post.

[mortendaman]

ah now i understand. I will check to see how much it would cost me to get one shipped. And then return the cables i just bought.
Do you know if theres any place that sells the exact one i need? Instead of male 1/8.. I havent been able to find anything

Hmm, i might have expressed myself unclear, but i am not intending to alter the actual mic cable! But with the cables i have just bought, i was going to make a female 1/8 -> male xlr, so that i could insert the mic male 1/8 jack into my homemade cable.. Dont know if that was clear:)

Best regards


EDIT: ok SP has the cable i need http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-XLRM-MINI-2.
Ok so now my question is :
You can choose to make the cable usable (in lack of better word) with 30 or 48 phantom power. I am pretty sure the mic uses plug in power (so far i have only used it with an md), would i need the phantom power enhancement in the cable, or will the needed 12v p-i-p (or so) be provided by the mixpre regardless of whether i choose this option or not?
THat was a very bad explanation of something very simple!

The postage is 15 dollars with uninsured untrackable mail. other wise 50 dollars

[(((KB)))]

ah now i understand. I will check to see how much it would cost me to get one shipped. And then return the cables i just bought.
Do you know if theres any place that sells the exact one i need? Instead of male 1/8.. I havent been able to find anything

Hmm, i might have expressed myself unclear, but i am not intending to alter the actual mic cable! But with the cables i have just bought, i was going to make a female 1/8 -> male xlr, so that i could insert the mic male 1/8 jack into my homemade cable.. Dont know if that was clear:
Best regards

ok... you should be fine depending on the kind of wire that you're using...

If the cable is individually sheilded for L and R you won't have any problem. (The last photo I posed is an example of this)

But,

If it has one shield for both L, R wires you will end up reducing the ammount shielding in the few inches at the end which is not a good thing. You may encounter interferance when recording because of this.

-K

[(((KB)))]

It would be helpful to see the cable that you are modifying. You might be able to use it instead of returning it.

-K

[mortendaman]

Hmm if individually shielded means, that the cable looks like two glued together, and an unindividuallyshielded looks like this http://webshop.parocom.nl/images/IN12057KL.jpg  allthough a little thicker (i know for sure that it is a stereo cable)
Then it is not individually shielded (aka. it looks like the one on the picture )

note: i edited my previous post, put in some sp links.

Best regards

[(((KB)))]

Hmm if individually shielded means, that the cable looks like two glued together, and an unindividuallyshielded looks like this http://webshop.parocom.nl/images/IN12057KL.jpg
Then it is not individually shielded (aka. it looks like the one on the picture )

note: i edited my previous post, put in some sp links.

Best regards

that will work... the plastic moulding isn't the shielding, that's the insulation. The "shield" of the cable is the braided wire inside protecting the other 2 wires.

-K

[(((KB)))]

If I did this from scratch, this is how I'd do it... 
(balanced 1/8" TRS -> unbalanced L, R XLR)

Left XLR ground/shield= pin1, white=pin2... the red is not used
Right XLR ground/shield= pin1, red=pin2... the white is not used

-K

[mortendaman]

Thanks for your help, i really appreciate it.

But i seem to have solved the problem without any soldering or shipping across seas. I just bought 1 female 1/8jack to dual phono + 2 phono->male xlr converters. And it works very fine. Why isnt that just the standard answer when in need of a fem1/8-->dual malexlr?

But actually i dont think it should work on paper, since my mic uses plug in power (at least im pretty shure it does, it is extremely difficult to find info on it, and i bought it used) and doesnt run on batteries.
But i have used it without phantom power on the preamp, and with the gain on both tracks at two oclock it sounds good (i do nonmusic fieldrecordings).

Does a mic even work if the needed plug in power isnt provided? Im thinking that maybe im getting a lower output than i would with pip.

im confused..
Best regards

[(((KB)))]

Thanks for your help, i really appreciate it.

But i seem to have solved the problem without any soldering or shipping across seas. I just bought 1 female 1/8jack to dual phono + 2 phono->male xlr converters. And it works very fine. Why isnt that just the standard answer when in need of a fem1/8-->dual malexlr?

But actually i dont think it should work on paper, since my mic uses plug in power (at least im pretty shure it does, it is extremely difficult to find info on it, and i bought it used) and doesnt run on batteries.
But i have used it without phantom power on the preamp, and with the gain on both tracks at two oclock it sounds good (i do nonmusic fieldrecordings).

Does a mic even work if the needed plug in power isnt provided? Im thinking that maybe im getting a lower output than i would with pip.

im confused..
Best regards

Not familiar w/ plug-in power mics really... doesn't your mic have an internal AA battery to power it? If so, plug-in power isn't necessary. Only asking because the sony 957 stereo mic uses a internal battery. Sorry, can't find any spec information on your mic to help.

-K

[mortendaman]

Well actually it seems like it has. Theres a tiny led (or what those small lamps are called) shining in a very short time just when you turn it on, also when it isnt connected to anything, just like the others, 957, 907 and so on. i just cant find the place where the battery is hidden..
There seems to be only two option, screwing the head off, which i have tried, or to rip up the part where the cable is connected. Which i havent had the guts to try:)!

Anyway i guess ill have to figure that out myself.. Theres VERY little info on it. it Has been discontinued some years ago..


But if theres anyone who know how a pip mic reacts when it isnt provided with voltage.. Please let me know

[(((KB)))]

Thanks for your help, i really appreciate it.

But i seem to have solved the problem without any soldering or shipping across seas. I just bought 1 female 1/8jack to dual phono + 2 phono->male xlr converters. And it works very fine. Why isnt that just the standard answer when in need of a fem1/8-->dual malexlr?

But actually i dont think it should work on paper, since my mic uses plug in power (at least im pretty shure it does, it is extremely difficult to find info on it, and i bought it used) and doesnt run on batteries.
But i have used it without phantom power on the preamp, and with the gain on both tracks at two oclock it sounds good (i do nonmusic fieldrecordings).

Does a mic even work if the needed plug in power isnt provided? Im thinking that maybe im getting a lower output than i would with pip.

im confused..
Best regards

If you are connecting the Mix-Pre to the Mic in-put (red) on the MD, you are probably still powering the mic that way (w/ PIP). I can't imagine that the mic would work at all if it wasn't recieving PIP or phantom Power.
[In a somewhat recent experience, I mistakenly tried to run a pair of mics that required 24-48V Phantom Power giving them only 9v. The recording came out distorted since the mic didn't have enough power to operate at 100%.]

How I understand Phantom Power is that, whatever voltage is transparently tranferred through XLR pin 2, 3 and grounded by pin 1.

PIP is transferred (in your case), from the MD through the tip and ring of the 1/8" cable to the Mix-Pre and then to the mic. I don't think it's healthy for the Mix-pre to do this, but it may be allowing it pass the PIP so that your mic still operates.

If this explanations are correct, the cable example I quickly wired up would pass PIP or Phantom Power to say your mic. Not sure exactly
if I did it right, I've seen diagrams that wire pin 1 and 3 as grounds??? I think I still have a cheepo electret condenser stereo mic... I should test it out and see what happens.

If possible, I would suggest trying to use 15v Phamtom Power on the Mix-Pre to power the Mic and then run the "line-in" in-put (white) on the recorder. Make sure that the mic can handle 15v, it may be built to handle only PIP [3-5v] ) If the mic can handle it, you will have much better results.

Found an interesting website that talks about Phantom Power and PIP w/ diagrams..."Powering_Microphones". Haven't totally digested all the info and schematics, but I find the subject matter most intreguing. http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/microphone_powering.html

-K

[mortendaman]

So far i have just used the line in on the md, so i havent been feeding it with pip.
But now i have tried to put the mixpre out to mic in on the md (i didnt think that was "legal", using to preamps in one setup). Which resulted in much more gain of course. An incredible amount of hiss and a weird low voice that didnt sound too healthy. turning the gain knobs on the mixpre just a tiny bit up resulted in more gain than i get when turning them all the way up and using the line in. Maybe its just me, but despite the powerfull hiss it actually sounded like the mic was picking up a "wider field of sound" But maybe its just the extra gain..
Maybe i should say that i am listening in the md headphones, not the mixpre.

Anyways. Turning on phantom power creates an unpleasant hiss (not just the regular type), when turned to 15v, i havent dared trying with 48

Thanks, I will definately take a look at the link later, im doing some other work now (when im not writing here:)).

So i have to find out whether or not my mic needs p-i-p or low phantom power (maybe it does need it, and its just my cables unable to transfer the voltage.. what do i know).
But anyway, the mic MUST be battery powered, since the led shines. Which basicly makes all worries unneeded. so... im gonna open it up someway or another!

Best regards


EDIT:

Hmm, this might explain the unpleasant noise when turning on 15 v phantom in conjunction wth the mic: "Applying phantom power to equipment not designed to hand it migh result a damage caused to that equipment. Especially consumer equipments which are connected to the XLR input through some kind of converter adapter or special cable are in danger" from the link you sent.


SECOND EDIT:
i found this very weird post in an DATforum (the 959 usually came with the D10 dat recorder):

Q:Where can I get a "minijack signal cable with the pad resistors removed"?
A: At least 2 routes: Find someone to sell you a lead from a Sony ECM-959 microphone. This has a 5 pin XLR on one end and a 3.5 stereo mini jack on the other...

That makes no sense.. Unless theres some secret way to pull out the cable (just like there must be some secret way to insert batteries. hmm...)

well... THIRD EDIT: I Finally found the place to insert batteries! Kind of weird, but cleverly build...!

[(((KB)))]

... well... THIRD EDIT: I Finally found the place to insert batteries! Kind of weird, but cleverly build...!

GREAT! I thought that mic had an internal battery. With this known, no phantom or PIP is needed since it has the battery nor do you really need to worry about passing any kind of power through the cables.

I doubt you will be able to use Phantom Power for that mic, but if you look on the battery itself or research it, this will atleast give you a ball-park figure to what voltage the mic requires.  Also, I would replace the battery... it will most likely give you better results if you put a fresh one it.

Now, all you have to figure out (by experimentation) is what cable and/or adapters that goes between the mic and the Mix-Pre will transfer the signal the most effeciently. What you have will work, but for instance, that Sound Professionals cable is pretty nice.. probably that one hi-quality cable would work better than a combination of adapters.

If you feel up to it, you have a few decent references to make you own custom cable too!

-K

[mortendaman]

Just used it with the r1 today and it sounds very nice..!

hmm i actually paid 170dkr (29$) on my cable + adapter set! So it would only be ten more to get a highquality one.. Without shippinginsurance and untrackable though.

Ill only order it if i know for sure that it will improve the quality noticeably. (Maybe ill be annoying and start another thread on it )

Thank you so much for your help! and patience!

Best regards

[(((KB)))]

First of all, I think the R1 is will give you better results than the MD. As far as the cables and connections, you may not hear much difference depending on your home stereo or computer play-back system. For me, I recently bought higher quality mic cables than the ones I previously had and I did in fact hear a difference.

I think you should save that $ and put it towards a higher quality mic  like the AKG c-426b


or

SP LSD2


or

Shure VP-88



-K

[mortendaman]

Well, actually there hasnt been much of a sound difference, when using the r1 line or the md line. Which is a bit dissapointing, but allright since there are lots of other improvements (cf cards, adjustable level while recording, not having to worry about skips and so on).
I had some problems with very audible hiss with the r1, appearing when adding gain afterwards on the computer (wavelab). When cranking up volume on the headphones the gain is good and not too much hiss, but i want to be able to have the headphones on normal level (otherwise i cant use it in my music of course:)), while still having enough gain and not too much hiss.

Anyways the problem isnt that big since i started turning down the volume on the r1 headphones, to get a more realistic picture of the sound. This way i dont have to crank it up in wavelab afterwards..

So.. Theres a lot for me to learn about using the equipment! Didnt have to tweak very many knobs using my old md-->ms959 setup:) Which of course also gave me poors results.


Those are some nice mics!:)

But im going to buy an rode nt4, which seems perfect for my application, urban/nature field recording.

Best regards

[(((KB)))]

Well, actually there hasnt been much of a sound difference, when using the r1 line or the md line. Which is a bit dissapointing, but allright since there are lots of other improvements (cf cards, adjustable level while recording, not having to worry about skips and so on).
I had some problems with very audible hiss with the r1, appearing when adding gain afterwards on the computer (wavelab). When cranking up volume on the headphones the gain is good and not too much hiss, but i want to be able to have the headphones on normal level (otherwise i cant use it in my music of course:)), while still having enough gain and not too much hiss.

Anyways the problem isnt that big since i started turning down the volume on the r1 headphones, to get a more realistic picture of the sound. This way i dont have to crank it up in wavelab afterwards..

So.. Theres a lot for me to learn about using the equipment! Didnt have to tweak very many knobs using my old md-->ms959 setup:) Which of course also gave me poors results.

I always try to run as hot as I can. I know my pre pretty well and have it calibrated to the mics I'm running. It does help that my pre is pretty forgiving though. Also, I have headphones that have a volume knob built into the cable, don't know if something like that will help you in the field.

...But im going to buy an rode nt4, which seems perfect for my application, urban/nature field recording.
Best regards

Can't say that I've ever used an NT4 so I can't vouch for it's performance, but I would agree that's a decent alternative for your application. FWIW, you might be able to get a better mic used than one of those new.

-K