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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: Chuck on November 06, 2006, 09:48:07 PM
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Is one better than the other? If so, why?
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I think you mean MIT-176? I've not heard a comparison of the two, but I used and liked the Hosa MIT-176. IME, the pigtail helps break up the chain of connectors and reduces risk of straining the whole setup.
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Is one better than the other? If so, why?
Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack. The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO
A cheap transformer will do the following reduce bandwidth and increase distortion and they also have increased insurtion loss. A good transfomer is matched and falls with in specs of .5 db of its rating. So when you use them for a stereo input they will match up. Bad transformers are wound on a bobin with little to no care in how many windings there are in the transformer core. This makes a huge difference in performance and that is why Jensen is more then Hosa. With transformers you Do get what you pay for there are no short cuts.
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I have a pair of Shure A95UF transformers, and they seem to be rock solid. They a at least 13 years old and work like a charm. I do not use them much and can't really comment on their overall aural qualities (Chris Church please step in), but they will hold up and work for years and take much abuse. Just no pigtail :'( (really nice feature)
Also came with male and female adaptors, fwiw....
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Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack.
The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO
You hit the nail on the head with why I've used Hosa stuff periodically - I know I can always find the interconnect / adapter doodads to make it all work. I'm not surprised they use cheap transformers and the AT are better. I'd still be curious to hear a comp, though I won't run one since I no longer use line transformers. Thanks for your input, Chris.
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Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack.
The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO
You hit the nail on the head with why I've used Hosa stuff periodically - I know I can always find the interconnect / adapter doodads to make it all work. I'm not surprised they use cheap transformers and the AT are better. I'd still be curious to hear a comp, though I won't run one since I no longer use line transformers. Thanks for your input, Chris.
No problem, I think people who are using transformers need to remember they can make or break your sound. I see allot of people just wacking a transformer in line and calling it a day. Good transformers cost real money, I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)
Chris Church
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Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack.
The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO
You hit the nail on the head with why I've used Hosa stuff periodically - I know I can always find the interconnect / adapter doodads to make it all work. I'm not surprised they use cheap transformers and the AT are better. I'd still be curious to hear a comp, though I won't run one since I no longer use line transformers. Thanks for your input, Chris.
No problem, I think people who are using transformers need to remember they can make or break your sound. I see allot of people just wacking a transformer in line and calling it a day. Good transformers cost real money, I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)
Chris Church
Chris,
How about a making a nice steath pre with Jensen transformers? 9v power for the mics and transformers in one box (maybe even gain control)...golden.
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Hosa makes cheap cables and even cheaper transformers they are of the same quality as Radio shack.
The AT transformer is much better for one reason and one reason only AT makes good mics and they use good transformers in the production gear they sell. Hosa cable is NOT used by any professional studio or sound company I know of. Because the quality is just not there cheap molded ends cheap cable cheap transformers, Junk. But they are one of the only companies around that makes all the connection dodads so everyone uses them. Your much better off with Neutrik connectors and adaptors then Hosa. IMHO
You hit the nail on the head with why I've used Hosa stuff periodically - I know I can always find the interconnect / adapter doodads to make it all work. I'm not surprised they use cheap transformers and the AT are better. I'd still be curious to hear a comp, though I won't run one since I no longer use line transformers. Thanks for your input, Chris.
No problem, I think people who are using transformers need to remember they can make or break your sound. I see allot of people just wacking a transformer in line and calling it a day. Good transformers cost real money, I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)
Chris Church
Chris,
How about a making a nice steath pre with Jensen transformers? 9v power for the mics and transformers in one box (maybe even gain control)...golden.
If someone would pay me to build it I would love to. But I cant spend the time on a project unless there is a buyer I am so busy now I know there is a huge market here for that product. I am working on a few designs right now, but they are still in the prototype stage.
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I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)
well, it might be worth-while to check out a cheaper transformer and see how it sounds to you. for a short while, I used a pair of radio shack transformers, and I was happy with the results. in fact, I thought using a Denecke PS2 for phantom power and the RS transformers produced better results than my Beyer MV-100 pre-amp. and then, after 5 or 6 months with the transformers, I bought my V3.
anyway, my point is that if you spend $20 on a set of transformers, you might find that they fit your needs just perfectly. now, it won't sound like an oade 148, or a Neve Portico, or any other really nice transformer-based pre-amp... but you might be surprised by what you hear. and if you don't like it, you are only out $20.
as an example, here's a real nice Karl Denson show that I taped with those radio shack transformers:
http://www.archive.org/details/kdtu2003-04-09.shnf (http://www.archive.org/details/kdtu2003-04-09.shnf)
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I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)
well, it might be worth-while to check out a cheaper transformer and see how it sounds to you.
Jason has a good point here. Budget usually drives the decision to go with line transformers, and the immediate options - before one stashes away cash for further upgrades - are only two: run with not enough gain, or use an inexpensive pair of line transformers to provide enough gain to run better levels.
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I think you mean MIT-176? I've not heard a comparison of the two, but I used and liked the Hosa MIT-176. IME, the pigtail helps break up the chain of connectors and reduces risk of straining the whole setup.
Oppss... yup.
I have two of the CP8201's. They are separated from the XLR shell, so I can actually see the transformer used. They look very cheap.
I have not seen the Hosa's.
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I just wanted to make sure people don't waste there money on cheap transformers. And remember that transformers are like microphones you would not use a $20 mic why use a $20 transformer :)
well, it might be worth-while to check out a cheaper transformer and see how it sounds to you. for a short while, I used a pair of radio shack transformers, and I was happy with the results. in fact, I thought using a Denecke PS2 for phantom power and the RS transformers produced better results than my Beyer MV-100 pre-amp. and then, after 5 or 6 months with the transformers, I bought my V3.
anyway, my point is that if you spend $20 on a set of transformers, you might find that they fit your needs just perfectly. now, it won't sound like an oade 148, or a Neve Portico, or any other really nice transformer-based pre-amp... but you might be surprised by what you hear. and if you don't like it, you are only out $20.
as an example, here's a real nice Karl Denson show that I taped with those radio shack transformers:
http://www.archive.org/details/kdtu2003-04-09.shnf (http://www.archive.org/details/kdtu2003-04-09.shnf)
Cheap transformers do not have the low end response or the high end response of good transformers, there are no shortcuts. If someone wants to send me a good transformer over and a radioshack I can measure it and show the difference, now I am not saying rely on measurements alone. You might not hear it if you have nothing to compare it to, but when you do it will be very obvious.
Transformers are more important then wire in the audio chain they are more important then the type of recorder being used. I can't stress this enough that you can spend lots of money on a great mic, but if your using cheap transformers you would be better off with cheap mics. There is a reason why not to many companies get into making transformers it's because alot of it is science and some of it is luck.
Take for example a guitar amp (tube) change the output transformer, you change the sound big time. The same goes for audio input transformer's. You might have a very nice recording with Radio Shack transformers, but I will bet you put the same mics up in the same concert in the same exact mic position, with good transformers and your jaw will drop. You will want to burn your radio shack transformers.
A transformer is like a transducer, there is an electro magnetic transfer function going on inside this thing, that when its done right is very good when its done wrong is very bad. I know so much about transformers because as a sound system designer / engineer, I used them all the time, and I have heard cheap transformers right along side good ones. The one companies I did some work for, did not just take my word for it, they listened them selves decided that the $30 transformers were not acceptable and went with the $150 transformers, in a project that required 128 of them. I am just putting my two cents in rant over :)
Chris Church
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I think you mean MIT-176? I've not heard a comparison of the two, but I used and liked the Hosa MIT-176. IME, the pigtail helps break up the chain of connectors and reduces risk of straining the whole setup.
Oppss... yup.
I have two of the CP8201's. They are separated from the XLR shell, so I can actually see the transformer used. They look very cheap.
I have not seen the Hosa's.
You can not go by looks with a transfomer :) I have seen some very pretty transfomers sound like $@!t, and some very ugly ones sound like a dream.
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Take for example a guitar amp (tube) change the output transformer, you change the sound big time. The same goes for audio input transformer's. You might have a very nice recording with Radio Shack transformers, but I will bet you put the same mics up in the same concert in the same exact mic position, with good transformers and your jaw will drop. You will want to burn your radio shack transformers.
This makes sense to me - and really, it extends to the gain stage as a whole having a significant impact on the results, regardless of whether the gain stage is transformer-based or not. But I do believe inexpensive transformers provide a reasonable short-term solution to the problem of not enough gain for good levels.
Chris, in your mind, what's preferable - <1> no transformers with low levels and therefore higher noise floor, or <2> inexpensive transformers with proper levels and lower noise floor? (I suppose there's a third option of inexpensive transformers with proper levels and a high noise floor, if the transformers themselves introduce significant self-noise into the system. And obviously, one must take into account the noise floor of the rest of the gear, but...generally speaking is all I'm trying to get at.)
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Cheap transformers do not have the low end response or the high end response of good transformers, there are no shortcuts.
Im not suggesting that cheaper transformers perform anywhere near as well as more expensive transformers. What I'm saying is that as an intermediate solution (until I could save up more money to buy a very nice pre-amp), the cheap solution was to buy a cheap set of transformers, and that was good enough for me, at the time.
The one companies I did some work for, did not just take my word for it, they listened them selves decided that the $30 transformers were not acceptable and went with the $150 transformers, in a project that required 128 of them. I am just putting my two cents in rant over :)
that's exactly my point. the company you worked with had to decide on their own. they decided that $30 transformers were not acceptable and went with more expensive ones. I'm only suggesting that someone try out the cheaper ones because he/she may find that the cheaper ones are acceptable to him/her. and if they aren't acceptable and don't sound good, you are not out a lot of money.
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I wonder what the middle ground is between the $12 AT CP8201's and the $100+ Jensens?
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Cheap transformers do not have the low end response or the high end response of good transformers, there are no shortcuts.
Im not suggesting that cheaper transformers perform anywhere near as well as more expensive transformers. What I'm saying is that as an intermediate solution (until I could save up more money to buy a very nice pre-amp), the cheap solution was to buy a cheap set of transformers, and that was good enough for me, at the time.
The one companies I did some work for, did not just take my word for it, they listened them selves decided that the $30 transformers were not acceptable and went with the $150 transformers, in a project that required 128 of them. I am just putting my two cents in rant over :)
that's exactly my point. the company you worked with had to decide on their own. they decided that $30 transformers were not acceptable and went with more expensive ones. I'm only suggesting that someone try out the cheaper ones because he/she may find that the cheaper ones are acceptable to him/her. and if they aren't acceptable and don't sound good, you are not out a lot of money.
Respectfully, Jason we are not just talking about better sound as in a subjective thing, like the fun arguments that we all have about what cable is better. We are talking about frequency response. Cheap transformers have a response of say 50hz to 14k with in 3db! that's pretty bad, good transformers will do 20hz to 20khz +- .5 db! Why would you want to limit your frequency response? It's bad enough that your mics already do that, why aggravate the situation by using substandard transformers that have such bad bandwidth? Never mind the poor distortion characteristics.
Chris Church
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Another big problem that comes up with transformers is RF rejection. I would think that for field use good shielding can be just as important as freq/phase response.
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Another big problem that comes up with transformers is RF rejection. I would think that for field use good shielding can be just as important as freq/phase response.
In the case of these small in line transformers, its not a big deal because they are virtually Faraday shielded by the metal cases that they are housed in, but for internal transformers inside preamps or any device that generates a strong emf or emi field they should be Faraday shielded (metal can type) This is one of the reasons microphone companies can get away with not having to shield the transformers they use. Because the housings are made of metal and for the most part there is no emf or emi fields being generated from with in the mic it self.
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Respectfully, Jason we are not just talking about better sound as in a subjective thing, like the fun arguments that we all have about what cable is better. We are talking about frequency response. Cheap transformers have a response of say 50hz to 14k with in 3db! that's pretty bad, good transformers will do 20hz to 20khz +- .5 db! Why would you want to limit your frequency response? It's bad enough that your mics already do that, why aggravate the situation by using substandard transformers that have such bad bandwidth? Never mind the poor distortion characteristics.
Chris, you are quite knowledgeable when it comes to tranformers, and I understand that the differences between cheap and expensive tranformers are measureable, and noticeable when listening to them as well. I can hear the differences too. obviously, as you keep pointing out, it is not ideal to run the audio through a 50Hz-14kHz +/- 3dB transformer. But, usually, when people on this forum ask for transformer recommendations, their personal budget is driving a lot of their decisions. If someone was going to buy two $150 transformers for a total of $300, personally, I'd recommend buying a cheap pre-amp (used sound devices mp-2 can be had for $350-$400).
So, while you are telling someone to stay away completely from cheap transformers, I am simply suggesting that the cheap ones might be a reasonable solution that fits their budget. obviously, it's not ideal and it's not something that anyone would choose unless their budget was restrictive and didn't allow for more expensive options. I'm not arguing with any of your facts, or even suggesting that the cheap transformers are the end-all be-all. I'm just saying that it might be a good solution for some people.
thanks for the interesting discussion,
Jason
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Respectfully, Jason we are not just talking about better sound as in a subjective thing, like the fun arguments that we all have about what cable is better. We are talking about frequency response. Cheap transformers have a response of say 50hz to 14k with in 3db! that's pretty bad, good transformers will do 20hz to 20khz +- .5 db! Why would you want to limit your frequency response? It's bad enough that your mics already do that, why aggravate the situation by using substandard transformers that have such bad bandwidth? Never mind the poor distortion characteristics.
Chris, you are quite knowledgeable when it comes to tranformers, and I understand that the differences between cheap and expensive tranformers are measureable, and noticeable when listening to them as well. I can hear the differences too. obviously, as you keep pointing out, it is not ideal to run the audio through a 50Hz-14kHz +/- 3dB transformer. But, usually, when people on this forum ask for transformer recommendations, their personal budget is driving a lot of their decisions. If someone was going to buy two $150 transformers for a total of $300, personally, I'd recommend buying a cheap pre-amp (used sound devices mp-2 can be had for $350-$400).
So, while you are telling someone to stay away completely from cheap transformers, I am simply suggesting that the cheap ones might be a reasonable solution that fits their budget. obviously, it's not ideal and it's not something that anyone would choose unless their budget was restrictive and didn't allow for more expensive options. I'm not arguing with any of your facts, or even suggesting that the cheap transformers are the end-all be-all. I'm just saying that it might be a good solution for some people.
thanks for the interesting discussion,
Jason
Here is a transformer for $45.00 US you do not need to spend $150 you can buy them much cheaper from this company :)
3195 200/10k Microphone input
General purpose mic input. 1:7 ratrio. For driving solid state or tube amp. +4 dBu
Data sheet
Price: £26.96
Click for PCB pins (£2.34)
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Respectfully, Jason we are not just talking about better sound as in a subjective thing, like the fun arguments that we all have about what cable is better. We are talking about frequency response. Cheap transformers have a response of say 50hz to 14k with in 3db! that's pretty bad, good transformers will do 20hz to 20khz +- .5 db! Why would you want to limit your frequency response? It's bad enough that your mics already do that, why aggravate the situation by using substandard transformers that have such bad bandwidth? Never mind the poor distortion characteristics.
Chris, you are quite knowledgeable when it comes to tranformers, and I understand that the differences between cheap and expensive tranformers are measureable, and noticeable when listening to them as well. I can hear the differences too. obviously, as you keep pointing out, it is not ideal to run the audio through a 50Hz-14kHz +/- 3dB transformer. But, usually, when people on this forum ask for transformer recommendations, their personal budget is driving a lot of their decisions. If someone was going to buy two $150 transformers for a total of $300, personally, I'd recommend buying a cheap pre-amp (used sound devices mp-2 can be had for $350-$400).
So, while you are telling someone to stay away completely from cheap transformers, I am simply suggesting that the cheap ones might be a reasonable solution that fits their budget. obviously, it's not ideal and it's not something that anyone would choose unless their budget was restrictive and didn't allow for more expensive options. I'm not arguing with any of your facts, or even suggesting that the cheap transformers are the end-all be-all. I'm just saying that it might be a good solution for some people.
thanks for the interesting discussion,
Jason
Agreed. It is the same as 1st generation MD lossy recordings vs. lossless DAT, etc. It is all in what you can put in to satisfy your expectations of the output. I think this may have wandered into ideal scenarios territory instead of the original comparison of the referenced xfrm's. Still very interesting stuff.
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Here is a transformer for $45.00 US you do not need to spend $150 you can buy them much cheaper from this company :)
Unfortunately, the component part doesn't help someone with a limited budget who lacks the knowledge, skills, and/or desire to learn how to plop that little sucker into an appropriate box/housing/cable to use with their existing gear.
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Respectfully, Jason we are not just talking about better sound as in a subjective thing, like the fun arguments that we all have about what cable is better. We are talking about frequency response. Cheap transformers have a response of say 50hz to 14k with in 3db! that's pretty bad, good transformers will do 20hz to 20khz +- .5 db! Why would you want to limit your frequency response? It's bad enough that your mics already do that, why aggravate the situation by using substandard transformers that have such bad bandwidth? Never mind the poor distortion characteristics.
Chris, you are quite knowledgeable when it comes to tranformers, and I understand that the differences between cheap and expensive tranformers are measureable, and noticeable when listening to them as well. I can hear the differences too. obviously, as you keep pointing out, it is not ideal to run the audio through a 50Hz-14kHz +/- 3dB transformer. But, usually, when people on this forum ask for transformer recommendations, their personal budget is driving a lot of their decisions. If someone was going to buy two $150 transformers for a total of $300, personally, I'd recommend buying a cheap pre-amp (used sound devices mp-2 can be had for $350-$400).
So, while you are telling someone to stay away completely from cheap transformers, I am simply suggesting that the cheap ones might be a reasonable solution that fits their budget. obviously, it's not ideal and it's not something that anyone would choose unless their budget was restrictive and didn't allow for more expensive options. I'm not arguing with any of your facts, or even suggesting that the cheap transformers are the end-all be-all. I'm just saying that it might be a good solution for some people.
thanks for the interesting discussion,
Jason
Agreed. It is the same as 1st generation MD lossy recordings vs. lossless DAT, etc. It is all in what you can put in to satisfy your expectations of the output. I think this may have wandered into ideal scenarios territory instead of the original comparison of the referenced xfrm's. Still very interesting stuff.
I dont think spending $100 on a pair of good transformers is that big of a deal you guys spend that on cables in a heart beat. :)
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I dont think spending $100 on a pair of good transformers is that big of a deal you guys spend that on cables in a heart beat. :)
For those with a sizable budget, no. But the whole point is that those who are considering line transformers probably have a very small budget, since they blew most of their cash on mics, and are simply biding their time until they scrap more cash together to put more money into their gain stage.
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Here is a transformer for $45.00 US you do not need to spend $150 you can buy them much cheaper from this company :)
Unfortunately, the component part doesn't help someone with a limited budget who lacks the knowledge, skills, and/or desire to learn how to plop that little sucker into an appropriate box/housing/cable to use with their existing gear.
I know, but its not that hard to build, it you have an input and an output. You don't need to know much put a pair in a box and wire the correct wires to the correct terminals, Hell the company would even tell you what bypass caps and how to do it. That was my whole point anyone can do this.
Chris Church
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Wow Chris, thank's a lot for the sowter hint!
Me being a newbee and not understanding what a transformer does must try to make my posting short since I do not want to highchack this interesting thread.
You may remember I had built my own preamp, you had helped me with it at this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71782.0;all (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71782.0;all)
I am quite happy with my preamp, it's gain 90% turned up and '0' gain on my iRiver H120 gives me a stronger and much cleaner signal than near to max. gain on the the iRiver without preamp. However I still find the signal weak and would love it to be stronger.
Could adding transformers be a solution? - even though my set up is unballanced?
If so, where can I learn how to connect it?
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Wow Chris, thank's a lot for the sowter hint!
Me being a newbee and not understanding what a transformer does must try to make my posting short since I do not want to highchack this interesting thread.
You may remember I had built my own preamp, you had helped me with it at this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71782.0;all (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71782.0;all)
I am quite happy with my preamp, it's gain 90% turned up and '0' gain on my iRiver H120 gives me a stronger and much cleaner signal than near to max. gain on the the iRiver without preamp. However I still find the signal weak and would love it to be stronger.
Could adding transformers be a solution? - even though my set up is unballanced?
If so, where can I learn how to connect it?
What you would need is a 1:5 ratio line in transformer that would be 10k secondary to 10k primary ( this depends on your input impedance) but I would assume a unbalanced preamp input to be somewhere in that area. Check out that company in the UK I know they make something that will work you want A- low distortion and B- at least 1:3 ratio this means for every mv input you get 3x the mv output. this will give you your boost. But I should warn you if you go to a higher ratio you might find your preamps input overloads so you have to be careful. The other nice thing about a transformer input is great common mode rejection *less inducted noise*
Chris Church
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What you would need is a 1:5 ratio line in transformer that would be 10k secondary to 10k primary ( this depends on your input impedance) but I would assume a unbalanced preamp input to be somewhere in that area. Check out that company in the UK I know they make something that will work you want A- low distortion and B- at least 1:3 ratio this means for every mv input you get 3x the mv output. this will give you your boost. But I should warn you if you go to a higher ratio you might find your preamps input overloads so you have to be careful. The other nice thing about a transformer input is great common mode rejection *less inducted noise*
Chris Church
yeah-iha, great!
checked the site and I am thinking that the model of which you had posted the photo is exactly the one I should get then, yes?
and do transformers need power, or in other words will the 9 Volt battery with which my preamp is powered give enough juice?
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What you would need is a 1:5 ratio line in transformer that would be 10k secondary to 10k primary ( this depends on your input impedance) but I would assume a unbalanced preamp input to be somewhere in that area. Check out that company in the UK I know they make something that will work you want A- low distortion and B- at least 1:3 ratio this means for every mv input you get 3x the mv output. this will give you your boost. But I should warn you if you go to a higher ratio you might find your preamps input overloads so you have to be careful. The other nice thing about a transformer input is great common mode rejection *less inducted noise*
Chris Church
yeah-iha, great!
checked the site and I am thinking that the model of which you had posted the photo is exactly the one I should get then, yes?
and do transformers need power, or in other words will the 9 Volt battery with which my preamp is powered give enough juice?
Transformers are passive devices, however you do get what is called insertion loss, this is because the transfer function of a transformer takes up energy. So some input power is wasted, typically .5 db to 3.5 db of loss from the use of a transformer. The good news is the ratio can more then make up for that. The transformer I listed I think, is 600 ohm primary 10k secondary. You want a 10k pri and a 10k sec unless you want to balanced the input of your preamp and use an external phantom supply.
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oops Chris, your last posting was 'empty', quotes only
just got a reply from the 'boss',
I don't think a transformer is going to be a solution. The best place
to use a transformer is between the microphone and the pre amp. This
way you get gain without increase in noise. Unfortunately this circuit has a low input impedance around 600 ohms.
The article states that you could use a 1:1 transformer but this will not help the gain. I would have
recommended our type 4935 but this has to feed a high impedance e.g.30 K ohms. It will not work
feeding into a 600 ohm load.
I am sure there are other pre amps you could make which could be used
with 4935
aarrgh...
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oops Chris, your last posting was 'empty', quotes only
just got a reply from the 'boss',
I don't think a transformer is going to be a solution. The best place
to use a transformer is between the microphone and the pre amp. This
way you get gain without increase in noise. Unfortunately this circuit has a low input impedance around 600 ohms.
The article states that you could use a 1:1 transformer but this will not help the gain. I would have
recommended our type 4935 but this has to feed a high impedance e.g.30 K ohms. It will not work
feeding into a 600 ohm load.
I am sure there are other pre amps you could make which could be used
with 4935
aarrgh...
What type of preamp are you using? if its high impedance then you can use a transformer if its low impedance you need a low impedance transformer.
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well, it's my DIY preamp http://sound.westhost.com/project13.htm (http://sound.westhost.com/project13.htm) resp. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71782.0;all (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=71782.0;all)
I just received my much delayed SP-CMC4s and hurray, the level is with them is much higher than with my AT822, so there is no more need for more gain!
( though I'd have loved to make a mixer to mix both mics, using a second of the same preamp to have the same preamp for all 4 channels, but then I'd have to lower the gain of the SP-CMC4s to the - 'unsatisfactory level' of the AT822. Therefore I'll still try to improove to preamp, there are some ideas, if successful I'll report at my DIY preamp thread )