Topic: My HD-P2 is Rusting!

[mattmiller]

It's just a little over 2 years old, and I only tape 6-8 shows a year.  I started noticing that the metallic parts were developing a "grittiness" about 6 months ago, and by now the screws on the XLR inputs are pretty well oxidized.  The RCA inputs seem to be developing the same incipient oxidation.  I consider myself to be very careful with all my possessions, so I'm more than a little troubled by this.  Between shows (i.e., sometimes for a month or two) I keep everything in my gear bag usually in an upstairs office.  During the summer, despite the AC, it is slightly warmer and more humid up there than elsewhere in the house.  Is this my problem?  Should I let it "air out" when not in use?  What can I do about the oxidation that has already developed?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

[Roving Sign]

perhaps the cost of "going green"?

Recycled metals...

Gotta wonder just how pure they make recycled steel etc...?

Perhaps consider a few of those silicon desiccant thingys in the gear bag...? Help keep any moisture to a minimum.

[deadheaded]

Do you live near salt water?

[jkbyram]

after reading this it made me go examine mine closely. mine looks great still with no signs of any rust or tarnish. i live in one of the most humid places around also, i am in the deep south.

[mattmiller]

do you leave a battery hooked up?  it might be a galvanic distortion being accelerated by dissimilar metals and a low voltage value leakage if a battery is left hooked up.

I run it off the 8 AA batteries (never taped enough to be bankrupted by the cost of replacing them).  I have left the batteries in the unit between shows, if I happened to be taping a couple times over a few week period.  When I've done this, I've checked the battery compartment on occasion to make sure nothing goofy was happening (batteries leaking, etc.).  I never considered that this voltage source could manifest itself in problems elsewhere on the unit.  Any chance that this is my problem?

Do you live near salt water?

Nope -- NE Ohio.

[KenH]

Ive had my HD-P2 for about 2.5 years now.  Just checked it out, and there is some rust-like discoloration starting on the XLR buttons, and 1 of the screws.   Hmmm, interesting.   I store the gear in my taping bag on a garage shelf where it probably gets a bit too humid, and will plan on not storing it there any longer.

I live in central MA where it's humid as hell all summer long, or so it seems, but not near the ocean (dammit!).

It's also interesting to note that I store my V3 in the same bag, ready to go , and it shows no sign of even the slightest discoloration or rust, and I've had the V3 for maybe 2 years now.

A friend who lives in Florida noticed problems with his P2 a while back, and wrote about it here, I think. We thought it might be due to living near salt water, but apparently not.

I think the issue is cheap chromed steel, or cheap stainless. Hopefully it won't affect function.

/Ken

P.S. Thanks for posting about this!  +T

[dallman]

I live in the sometimes frigid sometimes humid midwest and have not had any deterioration at all on my deck. However since your problem does not appear to be isolated based on some of the comments above, you might want to call Tascam and see what they have to say about the issue. Maybe they would fix the unit, and/or maybe have some idea of what causes the problem and how to prevent it. I think it would be a call worth making...Good Luck!

[audBall]

It might be a good idea to toss a silica packet or two in your rig bag, if anything, to keep the problem from getting worse.  I don't own an HDP2 but this thread made me double check my bag last night.  I always make sure at least a small packet is in there...

I sure hope the problem doesn't continue inside the unit.

[gusbud1]

That is just bizzare,  I would try to get off as much of the topical rust as possible, maybe with steel wool. It might scratch up the facing a little bit, but I think that would be better than letting it rust out.

[mattmiller]

Has anybody had any experience with Tascam's support (or heard anything about it)?  I just got around to e-mailing them a week or so ago, and so far they haven't responded.

[KenH]

Has anybody had any experience with Tascam's support (or heard anything about it)?  I just got around to e-mailing them a week or so ago, and so far they haven't responded.

Yeah, called them yesterday.  The support guy asked me where I live, how I store it, and with nothing to indicate environmental issues, said "that's wierd, never heard of this problem. The warranty has expired so nothing we can do.".    Now my issue is minor, just a hint of off coloration, but I'd be happier if I could replace the screws in the XLR jacks with better quality stainless, or something, which I also mentioned.  He said I'd have to contact a service place for that (at least for the right screws).  fwiw, I got mine in June '06.

/ken

[mattmiller]

Well, it's nice to know they're so eager to assist.   

I got mine around that same time (I think May 2006), so I'm sure if I get any response at all it will be to basically tell me the same thing.

I guess I'll just contact some place that services them around here and get an estimate on replacing the visibly oxidized parts.  Or at least to get the parts so I can replace them myself.  What I worry about is what I can't see on the inside.  Hopefully, either:  a.  the inside was subjected to less humidity than the exterior; or, b. they used higher quality metal on the inside.

[jackmf]

I think I was the first on this board to notice the oxidation. I reported it to tascam at the time and they said the metal was chrome and that I should just clean it to remove the oxidation. They were willing to take it back and clean or replace but it would likely just happen again. When Busman had my deck for modding, he said it looked fine on the inside. It hasn't seemed to have gotten worse over the past year.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

It's quite unusual this oxidation thing.

The connectors are Neutrik, and they are alloy on the body and bronze alloy gold plated on the pins. That should be your major concern.

The screws should be bronze too, but if they are not they could be easily replaced.

The locking levers might be some steel alloy probably and they can be replaced, but with some difficulty. Cleaning them with steel wool might solve it, but rust may come back. If things get worst they should be replaced, which should be rather easy for any technician, or by you if you are handy with a solder pen and the connectors use wired terminals.

Take a look at the battery terminals and watch them for rust, because those are much worst to replace. 

[satchmo]

Mine shows no signs of wear after about a year - point of interest is that the decks that show the wear were purchased about the same time making me wonder if the parts used in that manufacturing batch had some specific problems.  Comparing serial numbers might give further clues.   

[Church-Audio]

It's just a little over 2 years old, and I only tape 6-8 shows a year.  I started noticing that the metallic parts were developing a "grittiness" about 6 months ago, and by now the screws on the XLR inputs are pretty well oxidized.  The RCA inputs seem to be developing the same incipient oxidation.  I consider myself to be very careful with all my possessions, so I'm more than a little troubled by this.  Between shows (i.e., sometimes for a month or two) I keep everything in my gear bag usually in an upstairs office.  During the summer, despite the AC, it is slightly warmer and more humid up there than elsewhere in the house.  Is this my problem?  Should I let it "air out" when not in use?  What can I do about the oxidation that has already developed?

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

Put a small bit of penetrating oil with a Q-Tip and it will be fine.. Its most likely from moving it from a hot to cold environment. Nothing to worry about the oil will stop the rust. The metal on the XLR jacks cant rust because its made from White metal. If you really want to do a good job take the screws out and soak them overnight in oil wipe them off and they should be fine for a long time.

[mattmiller]

Wanted to bring this thread back to life to see if anybody else has had this problem.  After spending close to $300 last year on parts and labor to have all of the inputs, outputs, and most of the screws replaced, I can see this happening all over again.  The outside of the RCA jacks are beginning to get that gritty tarnished look, and I see specks of orange and brown on a few of the XLR jacks.  Additionally, there is noticeable rust on the springs in the battery compartment (not replaced last year), and a few of the screws on the bottom of the unit are looking pretty bad (also the original screws).  This, despite being diligent about keeping the unit in my gear bag, closed, and packed full of silica packs.  I even bought a food dehydrator for the sole purpose of continuously recycling the silica packs once all the indicator beads have changed colors.  I keep a hygrometer in the bag at all times and it's generally between 20% and 40% humidity.  I live in northeast Ohio where, yes, it's humid during the summer, but not nearly as bad year-round as in many other parts of the country where people have not had this problem.  The nearest salt water is about 400 miles away.  Any new ideas on why this is happening?

[H₂O]

Do you have chinese made drywall in your house/condo?
 
Do you live in an environment with corosives?
 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Never saw this thread until now...  What a nightmare and poor response from Tascam.  Of course customer service people do see it all, including people who drop their gear in salt water and then try and get it fixed under warranty.  I assume you bought the unit new?

It is possible this is something environmental, but you'd likely be seeing similar problems on other stuff in your house.

Counterfeit gear is a problem.  People counterfeit Neutrik.  I am not suggesting that is a cause, but it is something to think about.  Neutrik is a *very* responsive company.  I'm guessing those are Neutrik connectors from the pic.  I would contact them for some help.  However, the corrosion on other parts of the unit suggests that isn't it.  They still might be able to help.

Don't use steel wool.  It is conductive, it rusts, and it can actually cause rust.  Scotchbrite is better, but loose metal particles, rust and abrasive aren't good.  As someone else mentioned, this may be galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals in contact...

Maybe you have bad rechargeable batteries that are venting corrosive fumes? (just a wild ass guess)

Photographers say that bags are for transporting gear, not storing it.   That is mostly due to concerns about fungus, especially in very expensive lenses.  But the fact is, most people here store their gear in their bags and don't have these issues.

I really think Tascam needs to step up on this.

[H₂O]

The thing that stands out to me is that the Neutrik connectors are rusting and Tascam doesn't even make this part.  I have neutrik parts and have never had this issue.
 
Could there be a grounding issue that is casuing some electrolysis effect or something?  I am at a loss

[mattmiller]

I assume you bought the unit new?

Yep -- purchased new from BSW in the late spring of 2006

It is possible this is something environmental, but you'd likely be seeing similar problems on other stuff in your house.

I thought of that too, but have never noticed it with anything else in the house.

Photographers say that bags are for transporting gear, not storing it.   That is mostly due to concerns about fungus, especially in very expensive lenses.  But the fact is, most people here store their gear in their bags and don't have these issues.

I've always assumed that keeping the gear sealed up in the bag, with sufficient dessicants, would be the best micro-climate for the gear.

Could there be a grounding issue that is causing some electrolysis effect or something?  I am at a loss

Do we have any chemists or physicists among us?

FWIW, I noticed that even the metal snaps on the carrying case are rusting.

[jkbyram]

If metal on the carrying case is  rusting too, that would indicate environmental factors to me.  I live In south Mississippi and see no signs of rust on mine. I would bet our humidity is worse than where you live.

[sunset]

Keep doing what your doing and try Deoxit: http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f

Are you storing it in a sealed plastic bag with the silica packets and hygrometer??I have  a HD-P2 purchased in 2005-2006.I never use it,sits out open in my small home studio blocks from the Pacific and all I use is Deoxit.I just checked it and looks great.Maybe it does have something to do with the production date and parts used???

[stevetoney]

Matt, first off, I'm sorry that you're having problems with your gear, but there's two comments in this thread that I'd like to respond to.

FWIW, I noticed that even the metal snaps on the carrying case are rusting.

To me, this is the key comment so far in the whole thread as far as diagnosis.  If you're seeing corrosion on other pieces, then the culprit probably isn't anything specifically related to the HDP2.  You need to concentrate on the environment...you must have some corrosive elements in the environment either in your bag or near where you commonly store your gear and bag.

I really think Tascam needs to step up on this.

It's really pretty hard to know if this is Tascam's issue to resolve.  They use high quality Neutrik parts just like other manufacturers and since this doesn't seem to happen on other units, you can't really say that it's an inherent design or materials selection issue.

Corrosion of metal components can happen anywhere the physics supports it happening.  For corrosion to occur, you need an anode, a cathode and a transmission medium.  What happens is that the metal on the anode is removed and tranmitted to the cathode.  The driving force for the metallic transmission is an electrical current...which often is naturally occurring, but not always. 

In the case of the P2, it's fairly obvious that the transmission medium is humidity.  I think that, even with desiccant packs, it's possible that there can still be levels of humidity in the air that will be high enough to support corrosion.  In the extreme, any humidity at all could be too much.

The metallic components on your P2 could be acting as anode and/or cathode.  Any two dissimilar metals can act as the anode and cathode...and thus they can cause a natural electrical potential to occur which will cause corrosion (in materials science, that's called galvanic corrosion).  However, I don't think that's what's happening here because if that were true, it would happen alot more often on alot of gear and we'd be talking about it alot more.  Also, for galvanic corrosion, the corrosion areas are at the interface/contact areas between the two metals and I think the pictures you're showing show that the corrosion is general surface corrosion.

It's possible that, if you aren't removing the batteries from the P2, that the battery case inside your P2 might not be grounded well and that's what's causing the electrical potential to occur that is the driving force behind the corrosive action.  I might suggest taking a peek inside to see if there are some loose wires...anything that looks like it's causing abnormal grounding situation.

The strange thing is that you say that pieces outside of the P2 are also corroding.  If the carrying case isn't electrically connected to the P2 somehow, then in my mind that would rule out any battery or grounding related issues (although I suppose it's possible that when it's sitting in your bag, there could be incidental metals in contact causing electrical continuity).  However, if you can rule out electrical continuity between the case and the P2, then in my mind that would completely rule out that the P2 has anything to do with what's happening.  I would focus on the transmission medium in that case...humidity and perhaps whatever corrosion inducing products might be suspended in the air.

Personally, I wouldn't put my P2 in a plastic bag with desiccant packs, at minimum unless I did some more research.  Some people assume desiccant packs are good for our gear, but do you know for fact that's true?  I don't.  You might be creating an even MORE problems for your gear.  How can you be sure that, when you seal the bag, you aren't sealing in an even higher humidity environment.  Are you sure that the desiccant packs are designed for the environment that will be encased inside the bag?  What happens inside the bag if you happen to forget to remove a battery and it starts to corrode?  Is the gas or acid now sealed inside the bag gonna screw up the circuit board or chips?  What if the bag somehow gets exposed to the sunlight or extreme temperature changes and starts to sweat internally?  Bottom line for me is that it seems to me that if desiccant packs were that good for electronics, then they'd be included with the OEM packages when we get the gear new.  My electronics NEVER comes with desiccant packs inside the plastic bags that the gear comes in, so I'm not using desiccant.

Unfortunately, I don't have any pat answers for you, but hopefully I've given you enough information to help a little with diagnosis.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Keep doing what your doing and try Deoxit: http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f

Is he supposed to spray it out of a bottle on the entire unit after every show?!

Given that he's already spent $300... the real cause needs to be determined.  Were the repairs done by Tascam?

It would not cost Tascam much to make this problem go away.  They just swap his unit for a remanufactured unit.  And then maybe they can figure out what is up with his unit (which may take a fair bit of time).

Tonedef, I'm not sure why you say that it is "obvious the transmission medium is humidity" when the OP has a humidity meter in his bag reading 20-40%, and another poster here who lives in a very humid environment reports no issues?    Plus, his other gear is not corroding.

So the OP mentioned that case screws are corroding..  Are there any parts corroding that are completely electrically isolated from the unit?   An example would be a screw that is only in plastic, with no metal touching it.  The OP mentioned snaps are corroding.. that may be key.  Do those snaps touch any metal parts of the P2?

Once corrosion starts, it can be impossible to stop... And then there is the issue of metallic whiskers..

After watching Breaking Bad, I want to joke that shutting down your meth lab would probably help.

[stevetoney]

Tonedef, I'm not sure why you say that it is "obvious the transmission medium is humidity" when the OP has a humidity meter in his bag reading 20-40%, and another poster here who lives in a very humid environment reports no issues?    Plus, his other gear is not corroding.

So the OP mentioned that case screws are corroding..  Are there any parts corroding that are completely electrically isolated from the unit?   An example would be a screw that is only in plastic, with no metal touching it.  The OP mentioned snaps are corroding.. that may be key.  Do those snaps touch any metal parts of the P2?

Good point...if your other gear also has Neutrik parts and it's not corroding...

When I say it's obvious that the transmission medium is humidity, I'm simply saying that in order for corrosion to happen there needs to be a medium that transmits the electrical current, that's all.  This can happen anywhere, actually, where the humidity levels are > 0% RH.  I guess you thought I meant to say that it's obvious humidity is the root cause of the problem.  That's not what I meant to communicate.  Since the corrosion is on the surface Neutrik parts, and since I assume he's not dunking his P2, then it's probably the humidity that's allowing the electrical potential to transmit onto the surface parts...even though the driving force of the issue, or the root cause of the electrical leakage sounds like it might be internal to the P2.

In fact, like you Freelunch, I'm betting there's some kind of internal electrical connection (maybe one of those whiskers?) that's not supposed to be there.

Regardless, as mentioned by Freelunch, if your other gear isn't corroding, then that's a good clue.  The corroding snaps on the bag are an intriguing aspect of this.

[mattmiller]

Thanks for all of your comments -- I've been following them closely all day at work, and now that I'm home I decided to take a closer look at some things.  I think I've found some pretty strong evidence that it is, indeed, a problem with the unit which is causing itself to oxidize.  The fact that the snaps on the carrying case was a strong indicator that it might be environmental, unless those snaps were in contact with any metal on the unit.  Now that I look at the carrying case more closely, the rust is ONLY on the snaps that are on the little flap that cover the XLRs (and yes, they are in contact).  All of the other snaps on the carrying case are rust-free.  Is that the clincher that it seems to be?  But does it even matter, since the unit is well out of warranty?  Of course, the problem would have been there from day 1, which caused it to slowly rust until I noticed it just after the warranty expired.  Is it worth a call to Tascam?  The evidence is below.  (And, incidentally, the photo session also revealed the source of the blue-green "powder" that was smeared on parts of the unit when I removed it from the carrying case).

[mattmiller]

The rest of the photos.  The last photo is of all of the parts that were replaced in April or May of last year.  They've been stored in a plastic bag, inside a small cardboard box, in the same office where I keep the gear bag.  I didn't think to take any photos immediately after bringing them home from the repair shop, but, to my eye, they look like they haven't gotten any worse over the past year.  Which I think is further evidence that the HD-P2 itself is the problem.

[yug du nord]

crazy situation.....  does the unit still function properly?

[mattmiller]

crazy situation.....  does the unit still function properly?

Flawlessly.  Never an issue with it functionally.  But now I'm a bit discouraged that it seems nothing I did could have prevented this, nor will prevent it in the future.  The attempts to keep it bone dry in the gear bag have resulted in my acquisition of a pretty nice food dehydrator.   Which has never seen food.  Anybody need a food dehydrator?

[stevetoney]

You're getting somewhere.  Again, while the unit might be the problem I'm not sure it would be completely obvious how or where the problem might be.  Electricity can be a funky thing and like was stated earlier it can only take a sliver or even a nick on the circuit board to goof things up.  Ya know how sometimes you've touched something that wasn't well grounded and because your body might be grounded better than the component, you might get a small shiver of an electrical shock?  That might be all that's happening here, only it could be even smaller and less obvious than a loose wire. 

I'm not sure what to recommend at this point...I think I might be inclined to just start taking it apart a little at a time (only as much as you feel comfortable) and see what you find...something might jump out at you.  One thing I'd bet you can count on is that Tascam probably isn't gonna let you make any type of warranty claim...nor will they probably acknowledge that this is something wrong with the unit since it's so easy to just sluff it off as something else such as what has been discussed in this thread. 

Good luck!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I disagree on taking it apart or spending any more time f'ing with it.

Warranty period means nothing...  you have some kind of weird lemon.  You can't fix this.  You can't sell it. As the manufacturer, they can replace it at very little cost... The $300 you have already spent is too much.   I don't know if some part of the unit or bag has high sulfur content, or chorline, or whatever...  I would include the bag when you send it in.  It wouldn't hurt to look around the area where you store it, but I don't think that is it given what you have observed with the snaps.

So I wojuld talk nicely with Tascam.. I would not spend more than a little time with the first line help people.  Escalate it to a supervisor.  Be prepared to take it to the CEO of the company.  Explain that you are in a very difficult situation and don't know what to do, that you have spent $300 getting these components replaced after they initially rejected warranty coverage.  Really, at this point, only tascam can make this right.  It really won't cost them much (at all) to give you a re-man/demo unit.  You're not blaming them per-se, you just don't know what is happening and don't know where else to turn...  You'd like to be able to post a happy resolution to this story, not a never ending internet thread asking random people what you can do to fix your tascam because tascam won't help, etc.  Don't let the first or second or third line people discourage you.

It will probably take them a long while to sort this out, so they should be happy to give you a loaner (like I am certain sound devices would)..

I would be concerned that the internal contacts of the connectors may be corroding and may cause corrosion on any connector inserted.

[mattmiller]

I would be concerned that the internal contacts of the connectors may be corroding and may cause corrosion on any connector inserted.

I was just going to ask about this -- am I possibly risking damage to anything that I plug into the unit?

And I just found the receipt from when I had the parts replaced.  It was only $250.  $100 for the parts (which took 4 months to get from Tascam -- as I recall, of all things, it was the screws that were on backorder) and $150 for labor.

I actually never called them about it before.  I sent an e-mail and either didn't get a response or didn't get a good response.  And then someone else earlier in this thread who noticed the same problem posted that they had just called them and were told that they had never heard of the problem before and there was nothing they could do since it was out of warranty.  So I didn't bother calling at the time, and instead just started looking for a repair facility.  I'm definitely going to give them a call now and try to appeal to their humanity.  I think I have a good enough story to convince them that something is wrong with the unit, and must have been wrong with it from the day I received it.  At least, I think they'll know that something was/is probably wrong with it, but we'll see how willing they are to admit to it.

What's sad is that I'm not even sure how much of my time this is worth.  With the 680 now on the market, it seems a lot of HD-P2s could be showing up for sale at very good prices, and I could probably just buy a new (used) one and be better off in the end.

[sunset]

Matt,
   I see you took the connections  out of the unit(from the pictures),I'd love to see what the inside looks like.I would  do what  Tonedeaf suggested,open up the unit.Maybe you've opened it already?If not flip the unit over,they're 9 screws take all out  except the one closet to the faceplate and gently remove the backcover.Does the circuit board have oxidization?I'd love to see a picture!Probably is just as bad but maybe not,so check it out.If it is, Freelunch might be right and fight this even though the warranty is expired,might be your only choice.Maybe its time to upgrade... if you do don't forget to Deoxit periodically and don't keep batteries in devices when not in use.Good luck!
 

[mattmiller]

I see you took the connections  out of the unit(from the pictures),I'd love to see what the inside looks like.

Those parts that are pictured are the ones that I had replaced last year when they started to rust the first time.  I pulled them out of the box that the repair facility returned them to me in to see if they had gotten any worse over the last year, because they're stored in the same room that the HD-P2 is.  They look the same as when I had them replaced, while all the new parts in the HD-P2 have started to rust.  I think this is strong evidence that it has nothing to do with the environment.

I expressed the same concerns to the repair facility last year about the internal components, and they indicated that everything on the inside looked fine.  But at that time, the battery compartment looked fine, and the screws on the bottom of the unit looked fine (so neither of these were replaced), and now they're rusting too, as pictured above.

I'll see if I can get the back panel off to take a look at it.  I'm generally comfortable taking things apart, as I do computer and laptop repair (but no soldering).  But for laptops, there's usually a service manual available online that tells me which screws need removed and, more importantly, how much force some parts require to remove.  I haven't been able to find a service manual for the HD-P2, so I'm not going to be nearly as aggressive in trying to open it up.  If the panel comes off easily, I'll post a picture.

[mattmiller]

That was easier than I expected.  Unfortunately, more rust inside, at least on one of the screws.  But I imagine that the white stuff on the board itself is problematic as well.

[jackmf]

This is not a unique problem to your deck Matt, I posted about it in the Team HDP2 thread in 2007. Several others from diverse locations have also experienced it. At the time, Tascam advised cleaning with anti-oxidation stuff and reported that the material that was oxidzing was in fact chrome. To date, the oxidation has had no noticable effect other than cosmetic and I've had the thing for like 5 years. I would say this is clearly a case of the manufacturer using a poorly chosen or sourced material.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

This is not a unique problem to your deck Matt, I posted about it in the Team HDP2 thread in 2007. Several others from diverse locations have also experienced it. At the time, Tascam advised cleaning with anti-oxidation stuff and reported that the material that was oxidzing was in fact chrome.

Good to hear you haven't had any sonic issues.  However, they might be subtle when they start. Now everything points to defective manufacturing.. Maybe problems as a result of their transition to lead free solder.  Also, someone left flux on the board.. it looks like from when they replaced the components.  That's sloppy.

Since this corroded the snaps on the bag, I think there is a very real risk it could corrode other gear.

[JackoRoses]

I've had my P2 since I don't know 07 at least and
I do not see anything like this at all on it.
I've recorded in storms short of a tropical storm. Even had a "river"
form under my gear bag one time. Found a 4x4 to sit the bag on and watched from a distance
as the river rose around my bag 
Everything looks about as good as the day I opened the box up and took it out..
I only use lithium batteries (dvd) on mine.
Anyway just thought I'd chime in on this since I've had mine for a while
now and when I seen this I had to go check.

[KenH]

I hope the manufacturer didn't use the same stuff that's in chinese drywall for parts of the P2, but I bet it's a similar root cause...   My P2 has some minor discoloration on the XLR-ins and on the battery springs too.

[guysonic]

CAIG LABS makes several products, DeoxIT good for power connections like battery connectors, and DeoxIT-Gold best for protecting already cleaned audio/video signal and low power connections.  And these formulated in various strengths. 

I've used both, but mostly clean everything first with +91% pure isopropyl alcohol then apply a concentrated version of the Gold to the contacts.  Protects against everything, even mouse pee that will corrode every type of metal! 

With every deck, connector made, and computer I get into my shop, I clean and ProGold ALL contacts.  This protection acts like 'teflon' resisting salts and other nasty stuff for up to several years of active use, or likely forever if connectors are not unmated like inside a computer.

I used to carry and sell some of these, but ended up with no real interest, but happy to use up my CAIG stock for in-house purposes.


You can find retailers, or maybe order direct from the company site at: http://store.caig.com/

[runonce]

I hope the manufacturer didn't use the same stuff that's in chinese drywall for parts of the P2, but I bet it's a similar root cause...   My P2 has some minor discoloration on the XLR-ins and on the battery springs too.

Right about the time those units came out - US scrap metal prices went through the roof - it was like a redneck goldrush out in the sticks...9-12 bucks a hundred for shredder steel.
I wonder if that put a lot of "dirty" metal into the supply chain...

[stevetoney]

In reviewing this thread, what hasn't been consistently discussed or determined is whether or not leaving batteries in the unit after the show has an impact on the rusting phenomenon.  Do those that haven't experienced the problem use batteries and/or have they ever left them in for extended times?  Since the simple presence of humidity has been ruled out, I'm betting that there's a small electrical current being induced by the batteries which is the motive force for the corrosion.  Remove your batteries after the show, as I'm sure the manufacturer recommends, and that may resolve your problem.

[mattmiller]

I used to leave them in occasionally, but not consistently, and I stopped doing that long ago.  I think shortly after I noticed the first signs of rust, and before the parts had rusted badly enough to require replacement.  They've certainly never been left in the unit for the past year, during which time all of the new replacement parts have started to rust again.

I called Tascam's service department last night and managed to get their service manager (Jim) on the phone.  He was very nice and seemed genuinely curious about what could possibly be happening, but of course always directed the conversation back to what I could possibly be doing to cause it.  He indicated that, in southern California, they see a lot of these with the XLRs rusting due to the proximity to the ocean, but he was surprised to hear that EVERYTHING was rusting.  I described the observation with the metal snaps on the carrying case rusting only where in contact with the metal on the unit, and he acknowledged that it was strange.  When I brought up the galvanic corrosion theory, he seemed to think that not all of the required elements were in place for that to occur ("there's not a complete circuit").  Although he admitted that he's not a chemist nor a physicist and was only recalling what he had learned in high school.  Which was quite a while ago, since he said he's been in Tascam's service department for 20 years.  Also, he thought the rusted screws on the bottom of the unit couldn't be related to this because they're supposedly not in contact with any metal (just plastic).  In the end, he took my name and number and said he was going to talk to the engineers and maybe even "call Japan" to see if they have ever observed this.  Since he's going on vacation next week, he said he'd try to get back to me within a couple of days.  There was no mention of offering to replace the unit if it's determined that there might have been a problem with it from the start.  But early in the conversation, when I mentioned having already paid $250 to replace all of the inputs, he said they'd be happy to do the replacements in the future for a much better price.  Ummm....no thanks.  That was early in the conversation, though, and by the end I think he was feeling a little sorry for the situation. 

[runonce]

The biggest problem with the rust would seem to be the re-sale value...(presuming the deck continues to function normally)

Even if the rust is "normal and to be expected" - still would make it a hard sell on some folks.

[JackoRoses]

In reviewing this thread, what hasn't been consistently discussed or determined is whether or not leaving batteries in the unit after the show has an impact on the rusting phenomenon.  Do those that haven't experienced the problem use batteries and/or have they ever left them in for extended times?  Since the simple presence of humidity has been ruled out, I'm betting that there's a small electrical current being induced by the batteries which is the motive force for the corrosion.  Remove your batteries after the show, as I'm sure the manufacturer recommends, and that may resolve your problem.

I've never used the battery compartment on my P2, I've always used dvd batteries.

[guysonic]

If everything metal (likely exception of Gold plate) inside/outside is corroded, then possiblilty where ever the parts and/or the deck was assembled has corrosive atmosphere contaminating everything in that area and activated other places by least amount of condensing atmospheric  moisture.  If this the case, NO solution but to always keep the deck 'bone dry' or more practical to return to the manufacturer for complete deck replacement hoping they will be responsible to look into manufacture dates, location, and other related clues.

I once worked in Mountain View, California in the early 1970's at Fairchild Semi with several buildings.  One was a semicondutor plant that discharged vapor from certain processes everyday at certain times.  This vapor discharge started literally peeling the paint off cars parked in the lot! 

Mysterious until the link from the chemical discharges and the peeling paint was established and prompt changes made to manufacturing practices stopped all occurances.

Your deck's damage might be caused something similar.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Did Tascam ever give you any help with this?

[mattmiller]

Did Tascam ever give you any help with this?

To this point, no.  But I've failed to follow-up with them.  The service manager was leaving for vacation right after I talked to him, but said he'd make some calls to some engineers about the problem.  I gave him a few weeks (a week of vacation and a couple of weeks to look into it) and then planned to call him back.  But I got busy and kept putting it off, partly because, with several shows coming up, I wasn't sure what I would do if he offered to have me send it in for them to look at.  I'm definitely going to call him next week, after a couple of shows this weekend.

[dude2010]

Mine is rusting too on the outside, screws, XLRs, RCAs - but works fine.
Can get the backcover of, by unscrewing the 9 screws there - but the front and top won't go!! I tried everything now, and applying more force, will break the plastic. Does anyone have a guide to dismantling it? Then I'll upload highres pictures for everyone!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

This is clearly a manufacturing defect... And a very odd one, and a very serious one.

I wonder if there is some component that outgases in a problematic way?

I wonder if TASCAM is still in denial about it?

[hi and lo]

I wonder if TASCAM is still in denial about it?

Probably. They have a nice service dept tho! 

[dude2010]

Clealy corrosion on connections are visible, this unit has been stored dry! NEVER used outdoors!

Thank god, inside it is as new.

[H₂O]

Do you ever leave batteries in it or leave it plugged in?

[mattmiller]

Those pictures look so familiar.

I wonder if TASCAM is still in denial about it?

Probably. They have a nice service dept tho! 

As of a year or two ago, Jim (represented to me as their head service guy) refused to admit to me that it could possibly be a manufacturing defect, despite all the evidence I presented to him.  He told me he would discuss it with the engineers in Japan and get back to me.  He never called me back.  My unit still works fine, but I went ahead and bought another one (used) on here just a couple weeks ago to replace it.

[ilia_2s]

Hello to everyone!

I specially registered here to share my thoughts on this subject. Several months ago I bought a used tascam
HD-P2 (made in 2006). Of course I had read many forums before buying it, but I couldn’t suppose
that the problem of rusting is so huge. As you may have guessed, the device I got was also
rusted.

A lot of people write that rust on the their HD-P2 is not affect to the functionality, but I
can't agree with it, because by physically viewpoint the rust must do conductance worse! I faced
with it in battery module, And forced to replace a battery module, because a rust increased
resistance.

Next, I decide to reply on this forum, because only here I found enough true ideas about reasons
of this problem. Of course I can't agree with all opinions, for example that the reason is salt
or humid air or galvanic effect, because, as says one of members, we would have a lot of similar
problems in the large count of other devices.

Nevertheless, someone expressed great assumption, that rust may arises not in humid environment
only, but also in acid environment. Also, I do not suppose that acid can out from batteries or be
present at tascam's factory, but I used this mean as main, and conjecture that acid can go out
from parts of recorder. A bit of googling allowed me to come to a conclusion that it can be a
plastic parts oneself (PVC colouring agents or components or can emit HCl in some cases).

I took a litmus paper in lab for test my assumption. I placed some pieces of paper inside
recorder (for whole experiment it placed in a cupboard in my flat), some pieces I put in a
plastic packet with old battery module from my Tascam. I pulled out all test stripes across a
month approximately. Stripes that are contacted with a body insede of recorder became painted most of all.

I have no possibilities for further research, and I am not good at industrial chemistry, but I
think that my reasoning will be helpful. My final assertion is that the reason of problem is outcome from violations in the technology of production of device case.

Maybe someone will be interested in this problem. We need a gas analyzing lab to be fairly sure in type of outcoming acid. Also some test can reveal a problematic chemical component in body composition. (PVC or paint) (РВ-P2 is a little blue on photos, but my recorder have this color only inside. It's gray outside, and i think that paint could faid and emit some acid also).

[darby]

I for one did not have that issue with my 6+ year old P2.
Several years back I worked as a material handler in a plastics manufacturing plant.
I'm no chemist, but I still remember one product we made that was made from a similar blue colored plastic.
It wasn't the plastic, but the colorant I added to it that really had an awful odor (think BONGWATER) 
I always thought that my P2 had a similar odor about it, especially while using it.

[ilia_2s]

darby, Thank you for nice comment! This is really important. I do not say anything about odor, but it was a first thing that I noticed when opened my parcel. This odor is really strong and awful, but it's new for me and I can't compare it with smth. that I smelled early.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Send it to Dave.  He'll get down to the bottom and figure it out

http://www.eevblog.com/episodes/