Topic: Jukebox C?

[martaasaeda]

Dear Brian,

Your FAQ is VERY informative. Thank you ^^. I have one question. Amazon site says that Jukebox "c" can do:
---------------
The Jukebox also sports some nice additions. It has a line-in recording capability (using an external microphone) that records WAV files that can be adjusted for optimal (or low-end) sound quality, and it can play audiobooks.
--------------
but you say that only "3" is the only one that does analog recording to wav. I wonder if you wrote your FAQ before "c" came out, or "c" has some problem ??

Since amazon also says that "c" connects to Mac, i am very attracted to that.

marta

[F.O.Bean]

i would be weary of ANYTHING that doesnt exactly say Nomad Jukebox 3

[Ray76]

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox-c/specs.asp
Says something about line in recording.only 6gb,but..The hard drive could be swapped out....
Ray

[hexyjones]

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox-c/specs.asp
Says something about line in recording.only 6gb,but..The hard drive could be swapped out....
Ray

All of the Nomad Jukeboxes have line ins..and swappable harddrives...but only the JB3 has the digital optical input...

[Ray76]

http://www.nomadworld.com/products/jukebox-c/specs.asp
Says something about line in recording.only 6gb,but..The hard drive could be swapped out....
Ray

All of the Nomad Jukeboxes have line ins..and swappable harddrives...but only the JB3 has the digital optical input...

Ok thanks man. I had no idee. +T ray
I wish creative woulda kept makin the jb3 or come out with somethin comperable.

[Brian Skalinder]

The JBC either didn't exist or I didn't know about it at the time.  A couple problems with the JBC:

[1]  Analog-in only - most tapers seem to use the JB3 for digital-input recording, and the JBC only supports analog-in.  Even those using it analog-in now may want digital-in to support future upgrades.

[2]  6GB HD - small hard drive, only supports ~10 hrs recording time.  Now that's pretty darn good if you're doing single shows, but wouldn't cut it for festivals.

At any rate, the JBC may prove a viable solution for those who don't want or need digital-in and don't mind the more limited HD capacity (and the HD can probably be swapped out, anyway).

[Brian Skalinder]

All of the Nomad Jukeboxes have line ins..

Not according to the NomadWorld specs.  Hang on...going through the specs now...will have a table of taper-applicable info for each unit in a minute.

but only the JB3 has the digital optical input...

Exactamundo.

[Brian Skalinder]

Wellllll...this got a little bigger than I initially anticipated.  Hopefully this makes sense to everyone.  FWIW, my info is based purely on specs from the manufacturer, which sometimes are ambiguous, if available at all.  If I have something wrong, lemme know.

***********************************************************************************
* KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY KEY *
***********************************************************************************
*                                                                                 *
* RECORDING                              FORMAT                                   *
* ----------------------                 ---------------                          *
* ANA = via analog line/mic-in           R   = Record in this format              *
* DIG = via digital input                P   = Playback in this format            *
* MIC = via internal mic                 WAV = PCM WAV, 16-bit unless noted       *
* FM  = via FM tuner                     MP3 = Various bit-rates                  *
*                                        IMA = IMA ADPCM mono format              *
*                                                                                 *
***********************************************************************************

======================================================================================================================
       RECORDING       |  FORMAT   | DEVICE                                  |
 DIG | ANA | MIC | FM  | WAV | MP3 | IMA |  NAME                                   | COMMENTS
======================================================================================================================
  X  |  X  |     |     | R,P | R,P |     | Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3           | Reliable digi-in
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |     |     |     |  P  |  P  |     | Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 2           |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |     |     |     | R,P |     | Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox C           |
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     |  X  |     |     |     | R,P |     | Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox             |
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     |  X  |     |     |     | R,P |     | Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 20GB        |
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     |  X  |     |     | R,P | R,P |     | Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox Zen         |
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     |     |     |     |  P  |  P  |     | Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox Zen NX      |
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     |     |     |     |  P  |  P  |     | Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra    |
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     |     |     |     |  P  |  P  |     | Creative Labs Zen Micro                 |
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     |     |     |     |     |  P  |     | Creative Labs MuVo Micro N200           |
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     |     |     |     |  P  |  P  |     | Creative Labs Zen Portable Media Center |
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     |     |     |  X  |  P  |  P  | R,P | Creative Labs MuVo2 FM                  |
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     |     |  X  |  X  |     |  P  | R,P | Creative Labs MuVo TX FM                |
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     |     |     |     |  P  |  P  |     | Creative Labs Nomad MuVo2               |
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     |     |     |     |     |  P  |     | Creative Labs Nomad MuVo2 X-Trainer     |
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     |     |  X  |     |     |  P  | R,P | Creative Labs Nomad MuVo TX             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |     |     |     |     |  P  |     | Creative Labs MuVo Slim                 |
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     |     |     |     |  P  |  P  |     | Creative Labs Zen Touch                 |
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     |     |  X  |     |     |  P  | R,P | Creative Labs Nomad MuVo NX             |
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     |     |     |     |     |  P  |     | Creative Labs Nomad MuVo                |
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     |     |     |     |     |  P  |     | Creative Labs Nomad II                  |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |     |     |     |     |  P  |     | Creative Labs Nomad IIC                 |
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     |  X  |  X  |     | R,P | R,P |     | Neuros HDnnGB                           |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |  X  |     | R,P | R,P |     | Neuros II HDnnGB                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  X  |  X  |  X  |  X  | R,P | R,P |     | Archos GMini 120                        | Digi-in rec introduces artifacts
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  X  |  X  |  X  |  X  | R,P | R,P |     | Archos GMini 220                        | Digi-in rec introduces artifacts
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |  X  |  X  | R,P | R,P |     | Archos GMini 400                        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |     |     |     |  P  |  P  |     | Archos GMini XS200                      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |  X  |     |     | R,P |     | IRiver H320                             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |  X  |     |     | R,P |     | IRiver H340                             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |     |  X  |  X  |     | R,P |     | IRiver H10                              |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |  X  |     |     | R,P |     | IRiver H340                             |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |  X  |     | R,P | R,P |     | Edirol R1                               | 24-bit, 44.1kHz only
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  X  |  X  |  X  |     | R,P |     |     | Edirol R4                               | 16/24-bit, various sample rates
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |  X  |     | R,P | R,P |     | Marantz PMD-660                         | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  X  |  X  |  X  |     | R,P | R,P |     | Marantz PMD-670                         | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  X  |  X  |     |     | R,P |     |     | Fostex FR-2                             | 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     |  X  |     |     | R,P | R,P |     | Denon F20R                              | 
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[hexyjones]

I think we send a mixed message about the "other" Nomad Jukeboxes...they are probably a better, more valid option than we give them credit for. If Brians D100/JB3 comparison was any indication of their sound (and it might be)...a lot of guys, who mostly patch, would be happy with these things.

[Brian Skalinder]

If Brians D100/JB3 comparison was any indication of their sound (and it might be)...a lot of guys, who mostly patch, would be happy with these things.

As you suggest, dunno about the other Creative devices analog-in, but they might be similar to the JB3.  But regardless, IME most patchers want a digital patch.

[sullen]

So basically what is the difference between the Line in and the Digital Optical Input???

I want to start taping and heard some great tapes with the JB3.

I almost bought the 6gb nomad, but no-one seems to know what the difference of the line in and the optical input.

Will the line in of the other nomads with the right mics and batboxx give the excellent sound that ive heard with the JB3?? Or no?

[eric.B]

Line in = analog signal going into the jb3.  Using this method uses the analog to digital converter inside the jb3 in order for the file to be written to its disk.

Optical in = A digital signal comes into the jb3 and is written to disk.  Using the optical in is a way to use a better analog to digital converter in the recording chain. 

Ive never heard the jb3 analog to digital converter (line in) so I cant comment on that.

I have heard some outboard converters (optical in) that sound grate!

[hexyjones]

So basically what is the difference between the Line in and the Digital Optical Input???

I want to start taping and heard some great tapes with the JB3.

I almost bought the 6gb nomad, but no-one seems to know what the difference of the line in and the optical input.

Will the line in of the other nomads with the right mics and batboxx give the excellent sound that ive heard with the JB3?? Or no?

In most cases - when you see JB3 in the source details - the taper was using the digital input...When using the digital input - there is no "sound" to the JB3 - all the levels and sonic character is created before the JB3. The JB3 just captures the digits...Same goes for DATs recording a digital feed...

But there are folks - mostly stealthers - that use the analog input sucessfully. And Brians tests show that it internal A/D is at least usable, if not decent.

So when you listen to sources - take note of what comes before the JB3...make sure you are listening to recordings that are representative of the JB3s sound.

[jaguaracer]

I've read somewhere(I think it was pulled from the JB3 Yahoo Group) that the JBC has some sort of file limit. 15 minutes I think. Yeah, it records in file chunks of 15 minutes. Not sure if you have to keep pressing record after minutes or if it automatically does that.
Also, it does not have gain control onboard.

[jaguaracer]

The JBC either didn't exist or I didn't know about it at the time.  A couple problems with the JBC:

[1]  Analog-in only - most tapers seem to use the JB3 for digital-input recording, and the JBC only supports analog-in.  Even those using it analog-in now may want digital-in to support future upgrades.

[2]  6GB HD - small hard drive, only supports ~10 hrs recording time.  Now that's pretty darn good if you're doing single shows, but wouldn't cut it for festivals.

At any rate, the JBC may prove a viable solution for those who don't want or need digital-in and don't mind the more limited HD capacity (and the HD can probably be swapped out, anyway).

Some more issues, cross posted in my reply to BigRay too:

Max file size is 15 minutes. I'm not sure if that means you continually have to hit record or if does it automatically though.
No onboard gain to bring up levels.

[Brian Skalinder]

I haven't been able to find anything official on the 15min, go figure.  According to the official sources, it only records to MP3, anyway, so it doesn't suit our purposes, regardless.

[Ray76]

Speakin of that, I sent that thing up to creative, for the ideal machine...hope they look at it.
Ray

[jaguaracer]

I haven't been able to find anything official on the 15min, go figure.  According to the official sources, it only records to MP3, anyway, so it doesn't suit our purposes, regardless.

In the JB3 tapers YAHOO Group File section.
labelled: NJB3Recording_1_4.txt
Under the area listed analog recording, this paragraph...

Next you need to initiate record on the NJB3 by pressing the [>/||] or[PLAY] button. The message "Preparing Recording ..." will pop up. Unlike the NJB1 which records in file "chunks" of 15 minutes, the NJB3 records to a file continuously until the file is "full". For .WAV type files, the limit is 2:59:59 or 3 hours. For .MP3 files it's 9:59:59 or 10 hours. This can be thought of as either an asset or a liability:

And from: http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=216&product=261&nav=2

1 stereo minijack line input for direct stereo audio recording in WAV format from external devices

Also, everything I talk about is about the Jukebox 1.  However, accoring to nomadness...

Creative later released the Nomad Jukebox C. This version comes with the same Jukebox but has a difference package contents. The Jukebox C comes with a universal power supply, USB connector cable, one set of AA rechargeable batteries, installation CD and installation manual. The Jukebox C does not come with stereo headphones, a carrying pouch or a spare set of batteries. It also doesn't come with the preloaded content.

So I understand the 'C' and the '1' to be virtually the same.

Sorry about the double post before too. I accidently posted in the wrong topic.

[jaguaracer]

...and only the JB3 has firewire

[martaasaeda]

Thank you very much, everyone, I successfully eliminated JBc from my option! Now the problem is that JB3 is somehow excluded from Mac's support...

[Brian Skalinder]

Now the problem is that JB3 is somehow excluded from Mac's support...

Not entirely, I know there are at least a few people here using a JB3 with Mac.  I think you're stuck transferring via USB, though.

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=19984.0

[rsimms3]

I used to use a JB c for recording live shows.  The 15 minute mark is as described, continuous recording in 15 minute chunks.  You just have to put all of the parts together for your show in something like CoolEdit.  Max recording with 2200 mAh batteries was around 3.5 hours straight.  This thing was heavy!  Have now converted to a JB3.

[sullen]

I just wanted to add a little to this, that i just realised today.
This might be helpful to some.

I got a tape in a trade early in 04, before i was looking into taping.

This was recorded with a Jukebox C.

I really didnt know much about all the gear info that was on my list, but this was the one that blew me away about HD.

The band im into isnt big on HD taping and there are only 2 tapes in exsistence by nomads, but this is the better quality of the two.

The tape is straight through w.o any cuts, not sure about the 15min deal, maybe it was edited? I didnt notice a damn thing though.

the sound is phenomonal, better than many dats from this years tour.

Info:
Dynamic Audio Binaurals > DA-120F Custom Battery Box with Bass Roll Off 85hz for Line-In > Nomad Jukebox C

If anyone wants a sample ill upload something to you send it.com, PM me.


~s  =))

[Chrysler]

i noticed that most alternative recording devices are not taken into consideration seriously here unless they have a digi-in.
But honestly who really uses this thing when stealthing? I dont think that there is a big quality difference between analog-in and digi-in anyway.
You need to use top of the notch mics and preamps and your recording will sound great.

Some new gadgets are about to be relased - most will switch to them anywayand not stick to their old JB3 since they seem to bee the better option (PMD-660, R-1 etc).
In another topic i used the Gmini 220 (analog-in) e.g. and i did not experience any problemes with it when taping. This has 20 Gig HDD and 4 hours of recording time. Only few people seem to use this - like the JB C however.
I wonder why there's so little interest in these new devices only because of  the lack in digi-in.

[Ed.]

a lot more people use the digi-in when stealthing than you may think.

also, it takes a lot more than just top notch mics and preamps to make a great recording.

[Brian Skalinder]

i noticed that most alternative recording devices are not taken into consideration seriously here unless they have a digi-in.  But honestly who really uses this thing when stealthing?

There are plenty of people stealthing with (mod)SBM-1s and AD20s and therefore using digi-in.  Some even stealth with bigger units like the UA5 / V3!

I dont think that there is a big quality difference between analog-in and digi-in anyway.

Depends on the devices in question.  IMO, there's a tremendous difference running analog-in v. digital-in on all (yeah, like there are so many!) consumer-level recording devices available.  Someone posted a comp recently with the Neuros.  Something like...Source 1:  V3 digital-out > recorder;  Source 2:  V3 analog-out > Neuros.  The difference to my ears was striking and I found the Neuros downright painful to my ears.

You need to use top of the notch mics and preamps and your recording will sound great.

What Ed said.

Some new gadgets are about to be relased - most will switch to them anywayand not stick to their old JB3 since they seem to bee the better option (PMD-660, R-1 etc).

We all hope they're better options, but they are, as yet, unproven.  Fortunately some of us (but not me) are early adopters of these new units and are giving them the rundown in the field.

In another topic i used the Gmini 220 (analog-in) e.g. and i did not experience any problemes with it when taping. [snip]

Glad to hear you didn't have any troubles.  Keep us updated about your experiences as you use the Neuros more.  Those who have done so have all - as far as I know - discarded the Neuros in lieu of a recorder that didn't give them problems, whether it be DAT, JB3, etc.

I wonder why there's so little interest in these new devices only because of the lack in digi-in.

User have reported problems with the Neuros introducing artifacts into the recording stream - clicks, pops, dropouts, etc.  The JBC suffers additional limitations beyond no digital-in, like the aforementioned 15-min recording filelength limit!  Hence, little interest.

[rsimms3]

I just wanted to add a little to this, that i just realised today.
This might be helpful to some.

I got a tape in a trade early in 04, before i was looking into taping.

This was recorded with a Jukebox C.

I really didnt know much about all the gear info that was on my list, but this was the one that blew me away about HD.

The band im into isnt big on HD taping and there are only 2 tapes in exsistence by nomads, but this is the better quality of the two.

The tape is straight through w.o any cuts, not sure about the 15min deal, maybe it was edited? I didnt notice a damn thing though.

the sound is phenomonal, better than many dats from this years tour.

Info:
Dynamic Audio Binaurals > DA-120F Custom Battery Box with Bass Roll Off 85hz for Line-In > Nomad Jukebox C

If anyone wants a sample ill upload something to you send it.com, PM me.


~s  =))

What is this tape you speak of?  It may actually be a tape I did because I did a few recordings with the Jukebox C and that was how I listed the Source, the way you have it.

PS
Nice nick!