Topic: Marantz PMD 671 announced (on Oade)

[MattinSTL]

The best prices I've seen are $899 now... so is that it then?

Also... in the comments of ruined recordings I don't understand why these people aren't using the 3rd head feature so you can hear what you actually recorded rather then listen to a great feed off the mixer or PRE-recording? That's one of the things that makes the 671 so cool for a real pro... it's the ability to hear the recording AFTER the recording immediately... so you KNOW what you got. Headphone outputs can sound great even while some bad shit is going down inside the box.

Does ANYBODY use their 671 as a stand-alone? Anybody? Would it be worthless for that?

[F.O.Bean]

ive also been contemplating one of these as well, seems more stable and more pro than the MT could ever be

wasnt there a problem w/ the files getting cut seamlessly at 2GB, they just stopped like the MT supposedly does? i think i remember someone saying they had a firmware fix for it tho!

[MattinSTL]

Well I know that it can simultaneously stop a current recording and start a new one at the push of a button or by setting that action for a given duration (like say at 2 hours start a new file)... so that's not bad.

Also I suppose the argument would be that there's no comparison between the MicroTrack and 671 strictly because there's no comparison on price... but I'm strongly leaning to the 671 at this point.

I'd like to hear some more current reports on how happy people are with their's... and if the mic pre is total shit or not... by the paper specs it seems like it might be... but then on oade's site they talk about dramatic improvements by doing their mods and say that can't be seen on paper. So maybe the 671 REALLY DOES have dramatically improved mic-in sound even though it doesn't measure out that way?

As a bit of irony... on the oade site when they mention the dramatic improvements to the mic-in they DO say that it's measured at 6db gain in SN... which ALSO just happens to be the difference in the 670 and 671 as stated by Marantz! Coincidence? I'm thinking NO. If Marantz was smart they'd buy an oade modded 670 and just put that $5 worth of op-amps and caps in the 671... and MAYBE they did. I'd really like to hear a shootout of the 670 mic-in and the 671 mic-in... and maybe even throw in an oade modded 660 or 670 someplace.

That said the one thing that's driving me freakin' nuts with the praise of the oade mods is I can't find ONE scientifically valid sound bite! The only way to A/B test anything is to have an A and a B... you can't just have a bunch of A's and keep telling everyone to hear the difference... you MUST split the recording so it's the EXACT sounds at the EXACT time in the EXACT space or else it's capable of being BIASED and therfor VOID. What's so hard to get about that? If I buy an ACM 660 instead of a stock 671 and I take that box over to my buddy's house (who has a 670) and we do a showdown... and the difference ISN'T as dramatic as it is on the oade site then I'd go nucking futs! Have you heard the samples on the oade site? They are nothing short of INCREDIBLE if the difference is really that much and it's not a case of room and distance to mic... so if it's really that amazing it's a bargain to have oade do the mods! But then that also begs the question of WHY in the hell Marantz (who I'm guessing has a llittle more cash in their factory) couldn't EASILY integrate those few components? They would never say, "well it's good enough"... when they could kick everybody's ass for another $5.

Sorry, but I'm frustrated that nobody wants to talk about that...

...and I'm dying for some fresh reporst on what people think of the 671. 

I gotta' cancel my MicroTrack and order a 671 or else accept the MicroTrack and I can't decide what I want to do yet.

[Brian Skalinder]

Well I know that it can simultaneously stop a current recording and start a new one at the push of a button or by setting that action for a given duration (like say at 2 hours start a new file)... so that's not bad.

Also I suppose the argument would be that there's no comparison between the MicroTrack and 671 strictly because there's no comparison on price... but I'm strongly leaning to the 671 at this point.

I'd like to hear some more current reports on how happy people are with their's... and if the mic pre is total shit or not... by the paper specs it seems like it might be... but then on oade's site they talk about dramatic improvements by doing their mods and say that can't be seen on paper. So maybe the 671 REALLY DOES have dramatically improved mic-in sound even though it doesn't measure out that way?

As a bit of irony... on the oade site when they mention the dramatic improvements to the mic-in they DO say that it's measured at 6db gain in SN... which ALSO just happens to be the difference in the 670 and 671 as stated by Marantz! Coincidence? I'm thinking NO. If Marantz was smart they'd buy an oade modded 670 and just put that $5 worth of op-amps and caps in the 671... and MAYBE they did. I'd really like to hear a shootout of the 670 mic-in and the 671 mic-in... and maybe even throw in an oade modded 660 or 670 someplace.

That said the one thing that's driving me freakin' nuts with the praise of the oade mods is I can't find ONE scientifically valid sound bite! The only way to A/B test anything is to have an A and a B... you can't just have a bunch of A's and keep telling everyone to hear the difference... you MUST split the recording so it's the EXACT sounds at the EXACT time in the EXACT space or else it's capable of being BIASED and therfor VOID. What's so hard to get about that? If I buy an ACM 660 instead of a stock 671 and I take that box over to my buddy's house (who has a 670) and we do a showdown... and the difference ISN'T as dramatic as it is on the oade site then I'd go nucking futs! Have you heard the samples on the oade site? They are nothing short of INCREDIBLE if the difference is really that much and it's not a case of room and distance to mic... so if it's really that amazing it's a bargain to have oade do the mods! But then that also begs the question of WHY in the hell Marantz (who I'm guessing has a llittle more cash in their factory) couldn't EASILY integrate those few components? They would never say, "well it's good enough"... when they could kick everybody's ass for another $5.

Sorry, but I'm frustrated that nobody wants to talk about that...

...and I'm dying for some fresh reporst on what people think of the 671. 

I gotta' cancel my MicroTrack and order a 671 or else accept the MicroTrack and I can't decide what I want to do yet.

Take a deep breath.  There are no easy answers.  There aren't a lot of people running 671s, so you're not going to get a lot of feedback on that unit.  Why aren't there a lot of people running 671s?  Probably because they're either content with their current gear, have opted for the SD 7xx, or are hoping the MT2496 will answer their prayers.

Why hasn't Marantz implemented the Oade mods into their gear?  Because they're a huge corporation focused on driving costs as low as possible in order to maximize profit.  And the design is complete, they've cut their corners, and they're not going to change the production line now.  Or any number of other reasons on which it's futile to speculate.  Accept it for what it is.  Not all decisions are made using the same "lens" as the one you're wearing, so not all decisions made with an alternate lens are going to make perfect sense to you.

As for measurement, the Oade Bros are a small shop and have limited resources.  Measurement requires resources.  And besides, the specs wouldn't tell you how it *sounds*, anyway.  I've had enough experiences with the Oade Bros to believe that if they say it makes a big difference, it makes a big difference.  They succeed in business in no small part based on their reputation.  I do not believe they would make false claims in an effort to make a few extra bucks, only to ultimately harm the business by harming their reputation.

If you have questions about how the different pieces of gear sound (670 v. 671 or whatever...I don't even know what gear you're considering, honestly...I can't quite make sense of your post), have you considered calling the Oade Bros and asking them for some input?

[Rick]

wasnt there a problem w/ the files getting cut seamlessly at 2GB, they just stopped like the MT supposedly does? i think i remember someone saying they had a firmware fix for it tho!

Nick has one, maybe he can chime in... The ADC sounds nice though 

[JasonSobel]

wasnt there a problem w/ the files getting cut seamlessly at 2GB, they just stopped like the MT supposedly does? i think i remember someone saying they had a firmware fix for it tho!

With the pmd-671, there was NEVER a problem with the 2gig.  I talked with tech support right when they came out, because I was this close to buying one.  (the only reason why I didn't was because the week the 671 came out was when the rumors for the microtrack started, and I was willing to wait another few months for 24 bit if I could save lots of money).  The guy told me that you could set the autosplit for 1 hour, 2 hour, or 4 hours, and it would seamlessly start a new file at whatever point you set it to.

The only "problem" with the 671 when it first came out, is that the .wav files that it saved were not recognized by most programs.  Marantz had implemented a new .wav file format developed by Microsoft.  Only problem is that most programs can't read it.  This could be bypassed by opening the file in CD Wave, and then resaving with the "alternate 24-bit format" option checked.  However, the issue is now moot, because Marantz has fixed it with a firmware update.

Also... in the comments of ruined recordings I don't understand why these people aren't using the 3rd head feature so you can hear what you actually recorded rather then listen to a great feed off the mixer or PRE-recording? That's one of the things that makes the 671 so cool for a real pro... it's the ability to hear the recording AFTER the recording immediately... so you KNOW what you got. Headphone outputs can sound great even while some bad shit is going down inside the box.

that is a nice feature, but if you check out the manual, that feature is not available when recording at 24 bit, only when recording at 16 bit or in .mp3 format.

So, the only other negative thing I see about the 671 is the 15V dc input, and it's price.  I'm still hoping the m-audio microtrack issues can be resolved in a relative short time-span, but if not, it'll be a PMD-671 for me.

please note: I purposely did not comment on the mic-in or line-in quality, nor did I comment on the Oade mods.  At this point, I love my V3, and all I care about is to able to record a 24-bit S/PDIF signal.  So I'm going to refrain from any discussion of the analog inputs.

[Chuck]

wasnt there a problem w/ the files getting cut seamlessly at 2GB, they just stopped like the MT supposedly does? i think i remember someone saying they had a firmware fix for it tho!

With the pmd-671, there was NEVER a problem with the 2gig.  I talked with tech support right when they came out, because I was this close to buying one.  (the only reason why I didn't was because the week the 671 came out was when the rumors for the microtrack started, and I was willing to wait another few months for 24 bit if I could save lots of money).  The guy told me that you could set the autosplit for 1 hour, 2 hour, or 4 hours, and it would seamlessly start a new file at whatever point you set it to.

The only "problem" with the 671 when it first came out, is that the .wav files that it saved were not recognized by most programs.  Marantz had implemented a new .wav file format developed by Microsoft.  Only problem is that most programs can't read it.  This could be bypassed by opening the file in CD Wave, and then resaving with the "alternate 24-bit format" option checked.  However, the issue is now moot, because Marantz has fixed it with a firmware update.

Also... in the comments of ruined recordings I don't understand why these people aren't using the 3rd head feature so you can hear what you actually recorded rather then listen to a great feed off the mixer or PRE-recording? That's one of the things that makes the 671 so cool for a real pro... it's the ability to hear the recording AFTER the recording immediately... so you KNOW what you got. Headphone outputs can sound great even while some bad shit is going down inside the box.

that is a nice feature, but if you check out the manual, that feature is not available when recording at 24 bit, only when recording at 16 bit or in .mp3 format.

So, the only other negative thing I see about the 671 is the 15V dc input, and it's price.  I'm still hoping the m-audio microtrack issues can be resolved in a relative short time-span, but if not, it'll be a PMD-671 for me.

please note: I purposely did not comment on the mic-in or line-in quality, nor did I comment on the Oade mods.  At this point, I love my V3, and all I care about is to able to record a 24-bit S/PDIF signal.  So I'm going to refrain from any discussion of the analog inputs.

I have a message from Nick that it can run on 12 v DC. I sent an e-mail to Doug to confirm. What I want to know most is if it can be run in a pass through only mode. Specifically, can it pass signal to the SPIDIF out without a CF card in it. This would be quite useful for situations when you don't have enough CF card memory, you could record to laptop or even DAT.

[eric.B]

Well I know that it can simultaneously stop a current recording and start a new one at the push of a button or by setting that action for a given duration (like say at 2 hours start a new file)... so that's not bad.

Also I suppose the argument would be that there's no comparison between the MicroTrack and 671 strictly because there's no comparison on price... but I'm strongly leaning to the 671 at this point.

I'd like to hear some more current reports on how happy people are with their's... and if the mic pre is total shit or not... by the paper specs it seems like it might be... but then on oade's site they talk about dramatic improvements by doing their mods and say that can't be seen on paper. So maybe the 671 REALLY DOES have dramatically improved mic-in sound even though it doesn't measure out that way?

As a bit of irony... on the oade site when they mention the dramatic improvements to the mic-in they DO say that it's measured at 6db gain in SN... which ALSO just happens to be the difference in the 670 and 671 as stated by Marantz! Coincidence? I'm thinking NO. If Marantz was smart they'd buy an oade modded 670 and just put that $5 worth of op-amps and caps in the 671... and MAYBE they did. I'd really like to hear a shootout of the 670 mic-in and the 671 mic-in... and maybe even throw in an oade modded 660 or 670 someplace.

That said the one thing that's driving me freakin' nuts with the praise of the oade mods is I can't find ONE scientifically valid sound bite! The only way to A/B test anything is to have an A and a B... you can't just have a bunch of A's and keep telling everyone to hear the difference... you MUST split the recording so it's the EXACT sounds at the EXACT time in the EXACT space or else it's capable of being BIASED and therfor VOID. What's so hard to get about that? If I buy an ACM 660 instead of a stock 671 and I take that box over to my buddy's house (who has a 670) and we do a showdown... and the difference ISN'T as dramatic as it is on the oade site then I'd go nucking futs! Have you heard the samples on the oade site? They are nothing short of INCREDIBLE if the difference is really that much and it's not a case of room and distance to mic... so if it's really that amazing it's a bargain to have oade do the mods! But then that also begs the question of WHY in the hell Marantz (who I'm guessing has a llittle more cash in their factory) couldn't EASILY integrate those few components? They would never say, "well it's good enough"... when they could kick everybody's ass for another $5.

Sorry, but I'm frustrated that nobody wants to talk about that...

...and I'm dying for some fresh reporst on what people think of the 671. 

I gotta' cancel my MicroTrack and order a 671 or else accept the MicroTrack and I can't decide what I want to do yet.

I hear ya..   but then again I dont..   No piece of audio gear can be described with numbers on a piece of paper as to what it sounds like..   what is gold sounding to someone is bronze to another..  If the changes to any piece of gear that Doug modifies make it sound better (for a far field recordist) then why doesnt the manufacturer also do it?  well..  as stated before we are a VERY SMALL MARKET for these manufacturers..  VERRRRY SMALL...  so I dont think any manuf. would even consider it.  If they did, then why not chime in the same opinion on the tascam dap1, or the UA5, or the sbm-1, or the d7/8 etc on and on  (all of which oade has modded in the past)   My advice to you is buy the stock 671 and try it..  if ya dont like it, buy a 722..  if ya dont like that buy an ad2k and an MT(if it works)...  if ya dont like that buy a v3 and a PDAudio palm..  If ya dont like that buy a MiniMe and a laptop..    and iffin you dont like that..   try the mytek with a laptop.   and if that doesnt work for you..  get a modded 671..

or try that scenerio in reverse..   mod671 first etc..  

or you can just keep waiting and searching for some field use of the mod671..  then decide.

above and beyond..  trust YOUR ears.  

The only opinions I value in terms of gear is their reliability and user friendliness..  all else is up to the listener.

[MattinSTL]

Thanks Web and Chuck and Jason and Rick and Brian.

I know I'm new here and I don't want to get a reputation for being a dick... I'm just curious for answers that are sometimes slow to come.

It's a good suggestion to call Doug tomorrow and I'll do that for sure. I should have called them today, but I'm a little worried about getting biased answers. I hope Doug is a cool guy and won't mind some "Columbo-like" questions... 'cause to MY ears it sounds like he's WAY closer to the mic when he's stating that he's on the unit with the mods. I'm very curious how he got rid of the room acoustics any other way? I've got on 7506's running out of a 24/96 computer and I had 'em cranked and I just hear more distance to the mic when he says he's on the stock unit... I hope he can answer that without thinking I'm a smartass.

So then if I get an ACM 660 and take it over to my buddy's house and do a split into his 670 and they sound the same... what then? I'm guessing Doug will say, "Sure! Try that... I'll laugh my ass off at you for even thinking they'll be CLOSE... AND I'll give you a refund if you aren't amazed!"... or will he say, "no refunds on modded gear"? (Which is what's stated on the oade site.)

I guess I'll also find out if I can feed the mic-in as line in or if that's even a consideration... since the line-in is 15db quieter I don't understand why you wouldn't START at that input rather then the mic input. 15db seems like a lot of ground to cover before you even get into improvements beyond that.

And of course I understand enjoyable sound versus measured quality... but I'm torn in that area... I used to go to CES every year in Chicago and there's a lot of gray areas in arguments of subjective sound. It's always nice when a piece of gear specs high AND sounds good 'cause then you have science... which I feel is the best foundation for art... rather then the other way 'round.

[F.O.Bean]

wasnt there a problem w/ the files getting cut seamlessly at 2GB, they just stopped like the MT supposedly does? i think i remember someone saying they had a firmware fix for it tho!

With the pmd-671, there was NEVER a problem with the 2gig.  I talked with tech support right when they came out, because I was this close to buying one.  (the only reason why I didn't was because the week the 671 came out was when the rumors for the microtrack started, and I was willing to wait another few months for 24 bit if I could save lots of money).  The guy told me that you could set the autosplit for 1 hour, 2 hour, or 4 hours, and it would seamlessly start a new file at whatever point you set it to.

The only "problem" with the 671 when it first came out, is that the .wav files that it saved were not recognized by most programs.  Marantz had implemented a new .wav file format developed by Microsoft.  Only problem is that most programs can't read it.  This could be bypassed by opening the file in CD Wave, and then resaving with the "alternate 24-bit format" option checked.  However, the issue is now moot, because Marantz has fixed it with a firmware update.

Also... in the comments of ruined recordings I don't understand why these people aren't using the 3rd head feature so you can hear what you actually recorded rather then listen to a great feed off the mixer or PRE-recording? That's one of the things that makes the 671 so cool for a real pro... it's the ability to hear the recording AFTER the recording immediately... so you KNOW what you got. Headphone outputs can sound great even while some bad shit is going down inside the box.

that is a nice feature, but if you check out the manual, that feature is not available when recording at 24 bit, only when recording at 16 bit or in .mp3 format.

So, the only other negative thing I see about the 671 is the 15V dc input, and it's price.  I'm still hoping the m-audio microtrack issues can be resolved in a relative short time-span, but if not, it'll be a PMD-671 for me.

please note: I purposely did not comment on the mic-in or line-in quality, nor did I comment on the Oade mods.  At this point, I love my V3, and all I care about is to able to record a 24-bit S/PDIF signal.  So I'm going to refrain from any discussion of the analog inputs.

thanks jason, +T in12 buddy

thats great news, and if the post above is true, it can be run on 12vDC

[eric.B]

+t for ya..

ys..  def give doug a call and ask him all those questions..  Im not sure on any "refunds"*..  but it will be a piece of gear you can sell easily Im sure..




* just makes me think of the scene in Breaking Away when Dave suggests giving the guy who bought the corvette a refund..  and the father faints while repeating "refund..   refund..   "    ..  then he wakes up at home (seemingly from a bad dream or something) shouting..  "Refund!    Refund! "   

great movie!



 

[Chuck]

Thanks Web and Chuck and Jason and Rick and Brian.

I know I'm new here and I don't want to get a reputation for being a dick... I'm just curious for answers that are sometimes slow to come.

It's a good suggestion to call Doug tomorrow and I'll do that for sure. I should have called them today, but I'm a little worried about getting biased answers. I hope Doug is a cool guy and won't mind some "Columbo-like" questions... 'cause to MY ears it sounds like he's WAY closer to the mic when he's stating that he's on the unit with the mods. I'm very curious how he got rid of the room acoustics any other way? I've got on 7506's running out of a 24/96 computer and I had 'em cranked and I just hear more distance to the mic when he says he's on the stock unit... I hope he can answer that without thinking I'm a smartass.

So then if I get an ACM 660 and take it over to my buddy's house and do a split into his 670 and they sound the same... what then? I'm guessing Doug will say, "Sure! Try that... I'll laugh my ass off at you for even thinking they'll be CLOSE... AND I'll give you a refund if you aren't amazed!"... or will he say, "no refunds on modded gear"? (Which is what's stated on the oade site.)

I guess I'll also find out if I can feed the mic-in as line in or if that's even a consideration... since the line-in is 15db quieter I don't understand why you wouldn't START at that input rather then the mic input. 15db seems like a lot of ground to cover before you even get into improvements beyond that.

And of course I understand enjoyable sound versus measured quality... but I'm torn in that area... I used to go to CES every year in Chicago and there's a lot of gray areas in arguments of subjective sound. It's always nice when a piece of gear specs high AND sounds good 'cause then you have science... which I feel is the best foundation for art... rather then the other way 'round.

+T to ya Matt.
Now, if I can just get my MMe sold, I can get one of these things...
I just sweetened the pot too...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=49671.0
I threw in a Li-Ion battery, DAT and all the cables you need...
Jeez, what else does a guy have to do to sell his stuff 

[MattinSTL]

Thanks for the +T... and BTW how do I give somebody a +T? Do I just say T+ or +T Web... and then the software/moderator figures it out?

If so then +T Web...

I was feeling a little discouraged seeing my tickets going down because I'm asking unpopular questions.

When I was a kid my mom was a Jehovah's Witness and when I started to learn about science my mom wanted the "elders" to talk with me about my growing doubts about the religion... well it didn't take too long before my "unpopular questions" got me a free pass from that place.

I'd hate to feel unwelcome here because I like scientific answers.

EDIT: I see another ticket as I typed this... so thanks Chuck... I meant it when I said I don't want to be viewed as a dick for asking stuff like this. (regarding oade)

I guess if people respect me but don't like me that's still okay.

[Chuck]

Just speaking for myself, of course, I think questioning things is GOOD!
I've heard what I need to hear on the Oade mods, to know they are a good thing.
As others have mentioned... you have to decide for yourself. I say stay sceptical Matt.
If you end up doing comparisons, please let us know what you find.

[JasonSobel]

Thanks for the +T... and BTW how do I give somebody a +T? Do I just say T+ or +T Web... and then the software/moderator figures it out?

If so then +T Web...

I was feeling a little discouraged seeing my tickets going down because I'm asking unpopular questions.

underneath someone's name and tickets, you should see two links, one that says "gdtstoo" and one that says "ptbm".  The first one will give someone a ticket, the second will take one away.

and honestly, don't worry about your ticket count.  it's just a stupid thing that can be fun, but people get too worked up over it.